Almost 9/11 style terror attack

[Jirh]

4 minutes ago, oOo said:

Which dated source establishes daily civilian killings in Gaza before October 7, 2023?

You can track civilian casualties here: https://www.ochaopt.org/data/casualties

5 minutes ago, oOo said:

What evidence distinguishes unequal coverage from your conclusion that Arab lives don’t matter to Western media?

Just the amount of attention this rare anomaly airplane hijack is getting, compared to the daily killings and bombings in Gaza, which is just a boring fact of life that just "happens".

7 minutes ago, oOo said:

What criteria support “infinitely worse than Hitler,” and what evidence would change your assessment?

Hitler is dead. He can't kill anyone anymore. Israel is not dead, and it's killing and torturing people without remorse.

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Jirh said:

Israel is infinitely worse than any Hitler that ever existed. They have been strangling an entire strip for years. And the whole world is aware and watching.

Not remotely true. Hitler killed way more people than Israel ever will. And Hitler did it in much uglier ways for superficial reasons.

1 hour ago, Jirh said:

They don't need to. They have and daily use aircraft with bombs that can deal much more damage at a much lower cost.

But "they don't need to it" is a key point that you take for granted.

Why don't they need to? Because they are more developed.

Why don't I need to steal your money? Because I'm more developed than a poor person.

If your position is so weak that you need to do terrorism, that's a big you-problem.

Edited 4 hours ago by Leo Gura

[Salvijus]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

But Israelis are not flying planes into skyscrapers. That is an important difference.

Funny when you consider that 9/11 was Israel's doing. Which more and more people believe it to be the case now. 

 

[Leo Gura]

@Salvijus Too much of a stretch.

You guys are trying to stretch political reality to fit your moralism. That's not a wise thing to do because you will be paying the cost in delusion.

You are better off admitting that terrorism is wrong.

Edited 3 hours ago by Leo Gura

[oOo]

@Jirh OCHA recorded 30 Gaza deaths caused by Israeli forces in 2022; the State Department, citing OCHA, recorded 34 Gaza conflict deaths before October 7, 2023. Neither establishes daily civilian killings, also later wartime totals cannot establish prewar numbers there.

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Hitler is dead. He can't kill anyone anymore. Israel is not dead, and it's killing and torturing people without remorse.

This is a sweeping generalisation that even under the most generous of interpretations your perspective here cannot be taken seriously. 

 

@Jason G Netanyahu’s 21 November 2024 warrant came from the ICC, not the UN. Judges found reasonable grounds concerning starvation, murder and persecution. Not a conviction..

 

That said to add more of my own perspective, concerning Israel geopolitically at large things are not looking good. Israel’s Gaza campaign has seriously damaged relationships and the European perception of Israel relative to the post-WWII era where the world was much more sympathetic to Israel as a whole. Britain suspended trade talks over the renewed offensive and aid blockade; Turkey halted trade over attacks and humanitarian restrictions; Colombia severed diplomatic ties over civilian deaths and destruction, and the USA. And there's many other countries as well, like Belgium close to the beginning of the Israel-USA joint attack on Iran was trying to sway European Union on trade sanctions against Israel, even vying for a total EU boycott on Israel. Especially because as well all the economic problems with other countries that emerged because many countries were dependent on their fuel-trade relationship with Iran. Spain, Ireland and Slovenia also supported Belgium in sanctions against Israel, even in different ways militarily France and Italy have closed trades and negotiation channels with Israel. This is pretty normal behaviour, and as I alluded to before its what has happened to Russia as well in different ways. We're probably going through one of the most complex (arguably continual) rearrangement of political alliances since forever worldwide.

 

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Funny when you consider that 9/11 was Israel's doing. Which more and more people believe it to be the case now. 

@Salvijus I am interested. What are your sources? Right off the bat though, I don't at all take you seriously. That said I am very open-minded in general, so if you managed the impossible by sourcing actual evidence, I am willing to be persuaded. I am not here to bat for Israel, they have made mistakes in a complex situation but their mistakes should not be used to weaponise situations they likely had nothing to do with. Moreover, genetically, the Jewish are not all equal. Jewish ethnic divisions are Ashkenazi, Sephardic, and Mizrahi, with Ethiopian Jews. Ashkenazi, which is a percentage of my genetic ancestry, trace back to Germany, Poland and France, even Ukrainian regions. I have no allegiance to Sephardic, Ethiopian and Mizrahi, Ashkenazi never do anything wrong comparatively speaking, other than positive intellectual contributions.

 

Edited 3 hours ago by oOo

[Salvijus]

28 minutes ago, oOo said:

Salvijus I am interested. What are your sources? 

Well, for starters, there are few people that didn't show up at work that day. Larry Silverstine who is a Jew and who is good friends with BB Natenyahu never skipped a single days work except on 9/11. He also made the dumbest and the most unprofitable business investment 6weeks prior to 9/11 attack just to get a special insurance that protects you from terrorists attacks. Larry Silverstine made 7 billion dollars on that day. They call him the luckiest person ever. Or he was simply in on it. 

This is just one example that makes you very suspicious of the entire event. And there is so much more but the entire explanation would be hours long documentary. 

 

Edited 3 hours ago by Salvijus

[oOo]

 

@Salvijus They're two lone people that are apparently friends, it doesn't mean Israel was responsible. For example $7 billion was sought in litigation by Larry, not received on September 11. And it wasn't a plain profit; it was mixed with insurance.

Which source most strongly convinced you that Silverstein knew beforehand?
What does it establish about Israeli state involvement?
What evidence would make you reconsider that conclusion?

You've only brought up two claims regarding two Jewish men (neither completely Ashkenazi by the way - Sephardic both ways), whereas what's established as actual fact is that there were 19 al-Qaeda trained hijackers, most of which came from Saudi Arabia. Moreover, Saudi Arabia had zero formal alliances with Israel in 2001, the time of the attacks. 

[Salvijus]

29 minutes ago, oOo said:

Which source most strongly convinced you that Silverstein knew beforehand?

If a person never misses a single day at work except on 9/11. That's suspicious. 

Plus he made 7 billion off that attack by making an illogical business investment to get insurance against terrorism 6 weeks prior to 9/11. That's suspicious. 

He's a jew and friends with BB Natenyahu. That makes me think - hmmm 🤔 

29 minutes ago, oOo said:

They're two lone people that are apparently friends, it doesn't mean Israel was responsible

It gets more and more convincing as you dig deeper and deeper. This is just a tip of the iceberg. 

Edited 2 hours ago by Salvijus

[oOo]

26 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

If a person never misses a single day at work except on 9/11. That's suspicious. 

I think Natenyahu is suspicious full stop, however this is not sufficient reason in and of itself that either he or Larry were involved in the 9/11 attacks.

At the very least, provide evidence that he indeed never missed a day prior to 9/11. And he technically didn't miss the day, he had an appointment with a dermatologist.

Otherwise, a conspiracy that is more likely is that the USA did it themselves, with CIA being one of the dominant parties concerning. Many Americans believe this conspiracy. 

What's going to sway the hypothetical either way however? Genuine established patterns and evidence. Saudi Arabia for example was trying to boycott Israel at the time rather than trying to covertly organise an attack on the USA with Israel so that they could benefit one lone billionaire that lived in the USA at the time.

The likelihood that Larry was involved though is far more likely than "Israel caused the 9/11" attacks based on what I know so far.

 

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Plus he made 7 billion of that attack by making an illogical business investment to get insurance against terrorism 6 weeks prior to 9/11. That's suspicious. 

Why was it illogical? That's not established as fact, and again, it was not anywhere near 7 billion cleanly. 

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He's a jew and friends with BB Natenyahu. That makes me think - hmmm 🤔 

It gets more and more convincing as you dig deeper and deeper. This is just a tip of the iceberg. 

"He's a Jew", is not an argument.

Plus Natenyahu isn't even worth all that much in the net worth sense. 

Don't you think if Natenyahu was perhaps involved he'd be getting a bit more cheese than what he has? 

Where does this idea that Israel was involved even come from? None of the geopolitical relationships at the time lend any support to that, in fact based on present estimations, evidence goes in the exact opposite direction, with Saudi Arabia example having more to it as well. 

 

Edited 2 hours ago by oOo

[oOo]

30 minutes ago, oOo said:

I think Natenyahu is suspicious full stop,

I mean that just generally as a person, not necessarily in relation to 9/11.

As stated, we are still working on adequate connections pertaining to your claim. 

 

 

[Jirh]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Not remotely true. Hitler killed way more people than Israel ever will. And Hitler did it in much uglier ways for superficial reasons.

Obviously I was exaggerating because I'm angry at the silly airplane incident compared to the real atrocities Israel commits everyday.

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But "they don't need to it" is a key point that you take for granted.

Why don't they need to? Because they are more developed.

Why don't I need to steal your money? Because I'm more developed than a poor person.

Of course Israel has better weaponry. It has to as America's golden boy, because it is an extension/proxy of USA power projection in the middle east. Israel's development is borrowed, not inherent. Just look at what they do.

Germany is developed. Japan is developed.

Israel is as developed as the Arabs. Only Israel has a big bully brother.

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If your position is so weak that you need to do terrorism, that's a big you-problem.

That's victim blaming. It's like saying if an orphan steals bread to live, it's a development problem. Look at Trump. He doesn't need to steal because his parents paid for his education. Yet he is corrupt in ways worse. And he steals and rapes and everything. The whole package.

[Jirh]

2 hours ago, oOo said:

@Jirh OCHA recorded 30 Gaza deaths caused by Israeli forces in 2022; the State Department, citing OCHA, recorded 34 Gaza conflict deaths before October 7, 2023. Neither establishes daily civilian killings, also later wartime totals cannot establish prewar numbers there.

See? This is the attitude I'm talking about. You're not appreciating Arab life.

What you're basically saying is:

It's just 30 people in a year. It doesn't count or matter unless it's 365 a year.

So 30 unprovoked killings is a fact of life. It's just normal we don't even need to worry about it. We'll start worrying when it reaches 365, and then if that becomes the standard, we'll just learn to get used to it and consider it a standard, until a worse standard develops.

Exaggerations serve a purpose. To invoke a reality that no one is seeing.

[oOo]

7 minutes ago, Jirh said:

Obviously I was exaggerating because I'm angry at the silly airplane incident compared to the real atrocities Israel commits everyday.

Of course Israel has better weaponry. It has to as America's golden boy, because it is an extension/proxy of USA power projection in the middle east. Israel's development is borrowed, not inherent. Just look at what they do.

Germany is developed. Japan is developed.

Israel is as developed as the Arabs. Only Israel has a big bully brother.

That's victim blaming. It's like saying if an orphan steals bread to live, it's a development problem. Look at Trump. He doesn't need to steal because his parents paid for his education. Yet he is corrupt in ways worse. And he steals and rapes and everything. The whole package.

Which position are you hoping to engage in earnestly?

It is difficult to broach any topic with another person the more they're emotionally loaded on any aspect of it.

It blinds awareness on multiple fronts that actually does something good.

[Leo Gura]

11 minutes ago, Jirh said:

That's victim blaming.

That's politics. It's not a fair game.

I see you leftists suffering from your own moralism. But no matter how much I say it, you don't wanna listen.

Edited 1 hour ago by Leo Gura

[Karmadhi]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

But "they don't need to it" is a key point that you take for granted.

Why don't they need to? Because they are more developed.

Why don't I need to steal your money? Because I'm more developed than a poor person.

If your position is so weak that you need to do terrorism, that's a big you-problem.

I think the fundamental issue we leftists here in this forumn have Leo after analying all the comments is that we fundamentally disagree with what "development" is

To us, development is "moral development", not "material development"

So, a more developed person in your example would be "stealing is wrong i cannot do it" instead of "i do not need to steal because I have a steady income"

The material situation is irrelevant in the way we see things

A rich greedy person is less developed to us than a poor non developed person

Unless this topic is addressed the discussions here will never end

When it comes to countries, we put more importance on moral development than technological development

A technologically powerful nation with strong burocracy is "worse" to us than a peaceful tribe

Nazi Germany to us is "worse" than a local peaceful Hindu village in 1940s

That is the core difference

Which is what you call moralizing I guess.

 

[Jirh]

19 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

That's politics. It's not a fair game.

I see you leftists suffering from your own moralism. But no matter how much I say it, you don't wanna listen.

Human lives are not a game.

[Leo Gura]

5 minutes ago, Karmadhi said:

To us, development is "moral development", not "material development"

True moral development is to stop moralism and judging because you see it is limiting your intelligence.

I do not equate development with material only. I am saying Israelis are more morally developed. So it is worse than you hoped.

[Karmadhi]

To all of you saying "it is necessary to hijack planes"

Ask yourself this

Black people in USA were more oppressed than probably any Arab is by the West

For centuries

Yet, they did not do on a massive scale such type of attacks

Does terrorism even work?

 

[Leo Gura]

2 minutes ago, Jirh said:

Human lives are not a game.

Now that's semantics.

You guys are still not seeing what I am pointing to.

[Leo Gura]

1 minute ago, Karmadhi said:

Does terrorism even work?

Ironically is worked for Israel.