FEAR OF LOSS -- The Attraction Amplifier

[Zenterus]

Your favorite retired PUA is back at it again with a new banger for y'all!

Today we'll be discussing the secret ingredient that takes your interactions from just "decent" to fucking elite.

Adding this element to your game will reduce your flake rate significantly and will ensure that you consistently are in a position where the woman of your fancy is willing to invest in you equally or even more so than you're investing in her.

This "technique" is founded on the psychological principle that human beings are more motivated to take action when they're on the verge of losing something than gaining something.

When you have a comfortable job, you're less likely to want to spend valuable energy looking for a better paying job and going through the uncomfortable interviewing and onboarding process in pursuit of that. However, if you found out that your boss was considering firing you, then you'd instantly perk up, get your CV together and start applying to job postings vigorously.

The avoidant in a comfy relationship, is more likely to exhibit their avoidant tendencies when they're validated by their anxious partner's affections and investment. However, when their partner is fed up with their avoidance and starts pulling back, all of a sudden the avoidant starts reciprocating all the warmth and love that their anxious lover was desperate for.

Human being are more motivated by loss than by gain. You tend not to appreciate your health until you're sick. You don't appreciate your parents until they're on their death bed. You don't appreciate your life situation until you're in a much, much worse one.

This is what Fear of Loss -- or the "Fear of God" as I like to call it -- does. It inspires people to take action and is the secret to pick up consistency and respect within a relationship, assuming you're providing enough value that the recipient would be afraid of losing.

Now, in a normal social scenario, where you're seeing the same people over and over again, instilling a fear of loss isn't needed. Reason being that you have a lot of time to build attraction with someone and then even more time for them to emotionally invest in you. Plus, if you're smart, you're not focusing your full attention on one person, but rather you're diversifying your attention by socializing with multiple people, which makes your attention more valuable when someone who is attracted to you is on the receiving end of it.

In pickup, though, we don't typically have that much time to build the attraction and emotional investment to the level you could in a reoccuring social context, like in the example above. Therefore, we have to rely on creating very strong, polarizing emotions in the woman and using those emotions as curency that we can exchange for emotional investment.

And, yes, this is the purpose of high level game. If all you're doing in your game is approach, be fun and then close, you're missing a big step in your process there. A woman has no reason to show up on a date or pursue you if she hasn't invested anything in you. You matter to her as much as a mosquito in Alaska. 

This is why we do push-pulls, for example -- its actually one way of instilling the Fear of Gawd in the girl. By giving her positive emotions and then contrasting those with negative emotions, the woman becomes conditioned to value your positive emotions more and, thus, is willing to be compliant to you in order to get a taste of your validation again. Which means that if you're playing the game properly, you should give just enough positive emotions in the beginning for her to feel the contrast when you pull them back and, from there, you should keep your validation scarce in order to encourage her to invest more and more.

This might sound manipulative to some of you, especially to the women here, but this is a necessary evil. Men have an inherent emotional investment in women -- and the prospect of intimacy as a whole -- because their "attainment" is naturally scarce and fickle to us. Sexual and romantic attention, on the other hand, come in abundance to women and therefore men have to proactively differentiate themselves from the masses and put value on their attention. 

Now, gentlemen, hear me and hear me well: This technique is predicated on your ability to provide genuine value to the woman. If you havent done the work to develop yourself into an authentically cool and attractive guy then none of what I have to say here will help you. You can do push-pulls all day, but if your vibe is telegraphing neediness towards the girl, it wont matter. You have to do the work first, there ain't no magic pill.

Furthermore, every technique or tactic that I share here is risky. Meaning that they all could result in you losing the girl. Don't start blowing up my inbox with death-threats if that happens to you. This is the price you pay for a girl's heart and absolute infatuation. If you're not willing to lose the girl, you cannot have her -- at least, not fully. Do the inner work to align yourself with abundance and trust in it. The same behaviour that loses you a girl today, will earn you a unicorn tomorrow.

Anyway, another way of instilling the "Fear of God" in the girl is by disqualifying her.

This is severely underutized by guys even though it is one of the most important and powerful things that you can do in an interaction.

So here you are vibing with a girl. She feels flattered by your approach. She is excited by the spontaneity and fun of the situation. And then, just while she's drunk with all the positive emotions of the moment, you ask her if she works out and she says no. The moment she utters the word, though, there is an instant shift in the vibe. You don't verbalize it, but she can feel from your body language that you're disappointed and are considering walking away. She might not have cared if you did this 5 minutes before, but after all the positive energy she has received from you, losing that because of something SHE DID/SAID hits her ego like a truck and now she becomes invested in getting back on your good side and getting a taste of those good-feeling emotions again.

Disqualifying is super powerful and you should be using it in almost all of your interactions if your aim is consistency. And it doesn't have to be applied in a manipulative way either. No matter how awesome a girl is, there will be some differences in values between you two. It's only natural, you're both individuals. Thus, do not shy away from conveying to her that there are a few things about her that you honestly don't like or disapprove of as it only further encourages investment.

Caution: Do NOT become a disqualifying spammer. Some guys completely over use certain techniques once they realize their utility. This works against them. Game techniques should be used sparingly and subtly, they're not a replacement for being an actual cool dude. So if you think that spamming this technique is the secret to success when you're lacking in so many other areas.. you're wrong and this post aint for you.

The final, and most potent way of instilling the Fear of the Lord in a girl is by her seeing that other attractive women find you attractive. 

Gentlemen, if you're in a social environment and you meet a girl who you have chemistry with, do not dull the interaction by overstaying your welcome. In situations like these, you should capitalise on the chemistry that you've created by excusing yourself on a high note and going off to talk to other people -- including men, not just women. Give her the space to wonder about you, to watch you from afar as you charm other people in the environment, to fear seeing you potentially hitting it off with another girl.

Of course, you want to come back and talk to her again. Don't just abandon the interaction altogether, but create that tension in the girl. Also, it's better for you if you have multiple options to choose from in the environment rather than putting your eggs in one basket. So its win win win on all fronts.

Even better, would be to adopt the role of a social connector and introduce people to each other, including the different girls who you've had some chemistry in the environment with. This works best when you're not too physical with any of the women and are more subtle with your flirting, otherwise you'll be labeled a player and filter out the good quality girls for the more club-rat types.

Fear of Loss is such an important concept. It's the difference between a girl actively investing in an interaction VS her being non-chalant and indifferent. It's the mechanism that inspires your girl to treat you with absolute respect in a relationship VS her becoming so comfortable to the point of actively disrespecting you. It's the secret to consistent, high quality results.

And yes, as I've alluded to multiple times, this is a dynamic that you should carry along in a relationship as well, but for that to be the case, it cannot be a mere "technique" -- this needs to become WHO YOU ARE.

Become a man of abundance, a man who is naturally selective and doesn't over-invest in a single woman just because she's pretty. Become a man of strength and discernment and let go of your attachment to sex and female validation.

Once you do that, the game opens its arms to you for a warm embrace. Results come easily and consistently. Women treat you with respect and keeping them becomes a foregone conclusion. You become "that" guy.

Leave your questions below.

 

[Olaf]

You should write a book. Yes I was too afraid to spike negative emotions in girls and only had nice conversations. I don't even feel like doing push pulls as I am already being positive naturally, so I think I will put a bit more emphasis on negative emotional spikes to balance out the positivity that I already provide. I can for example open with a neg and it is actually funny banter, especially if the neg is a bit absurd. I am still figuring it out, but definitely being too positive will make it boring for her and you will be just the 100th nice guy approaching her, having a friendly conversation with 0 desire on her part.

[meta_male]

This is framed backwards.

What you're describing as fear of loss is a consequence of having self-respect. If you're okay with walking away from someone who isn't reciprocating you don't need to instill the "fear of the Lord" in someon. Ironically, that can create the exact dynamic you're describing. Once you're thinking how to make her afraid of losing you, you've already lost.

[Valach]

Some aspects of this just sound like natural manifestations of high self-esteem. If you genuinely value yourself, have standards, and aren't desperate for someone's approval, you're naturally not going to overinvest, pedestalize her, or be afraid to walk away when you're incompatible.

But intentionally and consciously trying to create "fear of loss" sounds extremely manipulative to me. And I'd even argue that it's almost the opposite of self-esteem or "abundance" (even though I dislike that term).

You're still pedestalizing women, just in a more sophisticated way. You're still preoccupied with them and thinking about how you should behave in order to produce a particular emotional reaction in them, so that they'll invest in you and ultimately give you the emotional reaction you're looking for—usually some form of validation.

Why not just focus on expressing yourself authentically, getting to know the person, seeing whether you actually like her, and allowing her to respond however she responds?

If you're genuinely selective, non-needy, and willing to walk away, you shouldn't need to manufacture fear of loss. Those behaviors should emerge naturally from who you are rather than being strategically performed to get a particular response.

[Zenterus]

@Valach Brother, I feel like in your pursuit to heal your emotional wounds and escape the pick up paradigm, you have done a complete overcorrection to the other extreme.

The reality is that, yes, these are natural behaviours if someone with high self esteem. However, someone who doesnt have high self esteem, isnt selective and doesnt embody these naturally attractive behaviours wont get the results he craves by "being themselves," as all they will end up conveying is that they're low value.

The way towards growth, I found, is by teaching guys the behaviours that high value men exhibit, having them model those behaviours, get positive reinforcement from the people they interact with through these behaviours which further cements those behaviours and the mindsets behind them in their identity, while at the same time doing the inner work to let go of limiting beliefs, insecurities and trauma. You keep doing that on repeat and eventually you reach a point where this shit is effortless.

But telling a guy who has all the wrong behaviours and belief systems to "just be himself" is ludicrous.

I get that you're over this whole pick up thing, but social skills are called skills for a reason and in pickup, especially, you need a stronger skillset than in regular social contexts.

Edited 19 hours ago by Zenterus

[Valach]

@Zenterus
 

I actually don't disagree with most of this, and I'm definitely not suggesting that you can take a highly anxious/needy guy and simply tell him to "be authentic."

In fact, I think authenticity can be quite complicated in that situation. If you've spent years suppressing yourself, adapting to other people and seeking approval, you might genuinely have very little idea what authentic self-expression even looks like. So yes, I agree that consciously practicing different behaviours can be part of growth. You can learn assertiveness, boundaries, selectivity, social skills, etc. before those things feel completely natural.

My disagreement is more about what we're modeling and why.

There's a difference between consciously practicing "I'm going to express what I actually think instead of automatically seeking her approval" and "I'm going to withdraw validation here because I know it will create fear of loss and make her invest more." The external behaviour might even look similar, but the underlying orientation is completely different.

In the latter case, you're still extremely preoccupied with the woman's internal state: how much validation you're giving her, when to withdraw it, whether she's investing enough, whether she's afraid of losing you, etc. You're ostensibly behaving non-needy while still organizing your behaviour around producing a desired emotional reaction in her. That's the part that seems contradictory to self-esteem or "abundance" to me.

But I also question the idea of simply modeling "high-value men." How are we determining who is high value in the first place?

Within pickup, it often seems circular: this guy gets a lot of women -> therefore he's high value -> therefore we should study and reproduce his behaviour.

But success with women doesn't necessarily tell you much about someone's self-esteem, emotional health, authenticity, or ability to create a satisfying long-term relationship.

I've known guys who were extremely successful with women, both naturally and through learning pickup, who underneath the socially confident exterior were actually deeply insecure. They had learned behaviours that looked like confidence, detachment and abundance and produced great dating results, but that doesn't necessarily mean the psychological structure underneath those behaviours was healthy.

And attraction itself isn't necessarily a reliable filter for psychological health either. People can be intensely attracted to dynamics that reproduce their own insecurities, attachment patterns, etc. So "women respond positively to this behaviour" doesn't automatically mean "this is what a psychologically healthy, high-self-esteem man behaves like."

That's my concern with using dating success as the feedback mechanism that reinforces the behaviour. You might successfully condition yourself into behaviours that make you more attractive and get you more women while simultaneously moving further away from emotional intimacy, vulnerability, authenticity or the kind of person you would actually want to be in a relationship.

So I'm not against learning social skills or deliberately changing your behaviour. I think that's necessary for a lot of people. I'm questioning whether "gets strong reactions/results from women" is actually the right compass for deciding which behaviours and mindsets we should internalize.

[Valach]

@Zenterus

Actually, the easiest example of what I'm trying to get at might be attractive women.

I assume that, like me, you've dated and known plenty of conventionally attractive women. Most of them live in what pickup would call "abundance" almost by default. Unless they deliberately remove themselves from dating, they have options, receive attention, know that other people desire them, and can usually find another potential partner relatively easily.

But I've never gotten the impression that having this abundance of options necessarily translates into high self-esteem, emotional security, satisfying relationships, or even greater satisfaction with life.

In fact, some of the most insecure women I've known have also been some of the most conventionally attractive and sought-after. Having endless external evidence that other people find you desirable apparently doesn't automatically resolve whatever is happening internally.

And I think the same question can be applied to men. Suppose you become extremely good at attracting women. You develop the behaviours that reliably generate attraction, women pursue you, you have plenty of options and you no longer have to worry about scarcity.

Okay, but then what?

What has actually changed internally?

Maybe you've genuinely developed confidence and self-esteem along the way. But it's also possible that you've simply become much better at obtaining the external experiences that temporarily make you feel confident and valuable.

That's why I'm increasingly skeptical of using attractiveness or dating success as a proxy for psychological development. Becoming more attractive to other people can obviously improve your dating life, but I don't think we should automatically assume that it makes you more secure, more fulfilled, better at intimacy, or better equipped for a healthy long-term relationship.

I would even wager to say that many of the strategies you pick up on the way will be detrimental to your life and you will have to unlearn them at some point.

 

@Zenterus On a lighter note, how is bachata going? I have recently started as well and its a lot of fun!

Edited 18 hours ago by Valach

[Miguel1]

I know these techniques are not really shared for me, who has exhausted game out of their system extensively, but honestly at this point all these techniques exhaust me (the more powerful it is, the more exhausting).

What type of people do you really attract with these techniques?

What do you do once you’ve ”gotten” them? Will you keep abusing techniques forever?

Edited 17 hours ago by Miguel1

[something_else]

1 hour ago, Zenterus said:

The way towards growth, I found, is by teaching guys the behaviours that high value men exhibit, having them model those behaviours, get positive reinforcement from the people they interact with through these behaviours which further cements those behaviours and the mindsets behind them in their identity, while at the same time doing the inner work to let go of limiting beliefs, insecurities and trauma. You keep doing that on repeat and eventually you reach a point where this shit is effortless.

But telling a guy who has all the wrong behaviours and belief systems to "just be himself" is ludicrous.

I don't disagree entirely, however I think a core component of improving your dating life involves organically instilling a feeling of high value in yourself.

If all you do is get really good at mimicking high value behaviour, that doesn't necessarily mean you ever develop that feeling of being "good enough" deep down, which is what makes a lot of those behaviours come naturally in the first place.

I think a more holistic approach is better than going all in on behaviour modification through pickup, though I don't deny that can help some people. Focusing on building a solid all-round life that you actually enjoy living will, for most guys, make a huge difference to dating. The "high value" behaviours start to flow more naturally when you genuinely believe you bring value to other people's lives.

For example, if I list the stuff I've done in the past 6 years to improve my dating life in order of what had the biggest impact, I'd rank them like this:

1. Building a solid social circle of deep friendships
2. Better grooming / style
3. Long-term travel / backpacking (such a good way to build natural confidence and social skills)
4. Gym
5. Actively practising pickup and learning "correct" behaviour
6. Just generally getting older and wiser

I specifically noticed that doing stuff which made me feel fulfilled with my life massively increased my confidence and "high value" behaviours. When I was forcing myself to go out every weekend and do approaches, I actually felt pretty awful. There was value in it, but it often made me feel dirty and sleazy, not fulfilled.

So I don't think pickup is useless. I just think deliberately training the behaviours is only one part of it, and probably not the most important one.

[Zenterus]

@meta_male @Miguel1 @something_else

Gentlemen, I have no interest in defending my initial post nor challenging your viewpoint around the validity or utility of the technique outlined. I respect your opinions and perspectives, but at the end of the day, direct experience is king. I've been working on this aspect of my life for way longer than you guys have and in a much more hardcore manner and, thus, I am inclined to stay firm in what I know to be true. Whether you agree with it or not is meaningless to me.

This post is written for the odd person who needs to see this, who will find value in the information provided and move a step closer to his goals as a consequence of implementing it.

@Valach But to answer your question: I did ONE class and then it got cancelled because a few people unsubscribed and the men to women ratio fell out of balance. I will try to sign up again in October.

 

Edited 14 hours ago by Zenterus

[Valach]

Sorry to hear that. Hope the next iteration will be better:) 

when we have less woman the tea hers usually dance with us. But they told me there is usually shortage of men in bachata classes.

[Miguel1]

@Zenterus I appreciate the value you bring here to the forum, no denying that.

And I know the technique works.

I am challenging the long-term consequences of it.

[Zenterus]

@Miguel1 The technique is only a technique, just how a knife is merely a knife. Any negative consequences are a result of the actions of the person wielding it.

If you're a loving man, who has pure intentions, it is your responsibility to pursue the woman of your desire because you know you have value to bring. This technique is only an aid towards that positive outcome. 

If you're a piece of shit, then yeah, you're gonna abuse the shit out of this and end up hurting a lot of people.

The technique itself is irrelevant.