Sadism must be one of the foundational values of God

[Natasha Tori Maru]

@LordFall You are misunderstanding again. But it seems wilfully so?

[yetineti]

There are no mechanics to suffering, that’s been the whole point that you’ve missed. 

You’re not going to figure out the mechanics to something that fundamentally does not exist, whether you experience it subjectively or not.

 

[Natasha Tori Maru]

4 minutes ago, yetineti said:

You’re not going to figure out the mechanics to something that fundamentally does not exist,

In the words of Ralston "You are doing it! Stop doing it!" >.<

[Joseph Maynor]

I think attachment to the ism is something that thinkers seem to be drawn to.  It is like an atom for thinking types.  

[Xonas Pitfall]

28 minutes ago, LordFall said:

I'll point out that there are very few people on this forum that have the humility to admit they're wrong. I've had discussions on topics I'm an expert on with people with no clue and they flail out. Very few users have the lack of ego to just say ''Huh that's an interesting point, I'll think on it."

I think this is an interesting discussion. As long as both parties acknowledge each other's counterpoints, I don't see any issue with continuing the debate.

I don't think you've acknowledged anyone else's perspective anywhere in this post. If anything, you've immediately resorted to things like, "You're parroting," "You're spiritually bypassing hard lol," "You're making up opinions out of thin air," "I think you're being intellectually dishonest."

There's no need to get frustrated. You raised a debate point, and now people are debating you. That's the whole point of a lot of these forums.

[Joseph Maynor]

Nah man, I don't think so.  This is all crap. 

[Jirh]

Life is suffering.

So what?

[Joseph Maynor]

3 minutes ago, Jirh said:

Life is suffering.

So what?

Life is joy to me.  

[Willy Phallicus]

7 hours ago, LordFall said:

I just don't understand why humanity's history had to be so painful and bleak to get there. 

If you want to give true substance to an abstraction the first thing you do is very lovingly and very tenderly run it through a shitpipe of existential terror of a feeding and fucking frenzy until the madness is beyond all measure .. anything short of this and you still got nothing but gossamer cotton candy instead of true vital sentience giving expression to a fierce and burning love as it rips through eternity into infinity.

[Jirh]

20 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

Life is joy to me.  

Good for you. Enjoy it while it lasts.

[Joseph Maynor]

Just now, Jirh said:

Good for you. Enjoy it while it lasts.

Gracias!

[Willy Phallicus]

In the Secret Teaching of All Ages, Manly P. Hall recounts this old mystery school allegory of how at the end of the journey satan transfigures into his true form of lucifer and tells man that he(lucifer) became the demon satan out of love for man and all the pain and torment was inflicted in mans best interest because it was the only way it could be in order for mans true potential to be fulfilled.

He's probably right.

[PsychedelicEagle]

6 hours ago, Yimpa said:

GLP-One

 

@PsychedelicEagle gets it, heheheh

[LordFall]

7 hours ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

@LordFall You are misunderstanding again. But it seems wilfully so?

I don't think I'm misunderstanding anything. If that's the case feel free to explain how. 

Have you simply considered that you're wrong and close minded to my point? 

I've considered that I'm wrong and close minded to your point. After thinking about it, I don't see any evidence pointing towards that fact. 

7 hours ago, yetineti said:

There are no mechanics to suffering, that’s been the whole point that you’ve missed. 

You’re not going to figure out the mechanics to something that fundamentally does not exist, whether you experience it subjectively or not.

 

You can see how what you're saying is foolish and doesn't make sense right? It's not only a bad faith argument but delusional. If you want to argue that reality doesn't exist then I don't know you're lost and on your own by your own definition. Good luck.

6 hours ago, Joseph Maynor said:

Nah man, I don't think so.  This is all crap. 

How so?

@Xonas Pitfall I don't mean to be rude, I don't think it makes logical sense to entertain a bad argument if it doesn't hold up to scrutiny. I wouldn't use this level of rhetoric in a "How was your day?" thread. 

 I don't your last counters make much sense. Do you really honestly or are you honestly parroting a Leo video without having thought much about it? I've thought a lot on these concepts, I don't take them at face value.

Clearly God can maintain compartments that are extremely stable since he has put very specific conditions for us to be experience wobbly reality like intentionally consuming psychedelics.

Otherwise all humanity would be schizophrenic and there wouldn't really be a human race. 

6 hours ago, Jirh said:

Life is suffering.

So what?

The point is that there is a large amount of suffering and that if we understand how to counter it and evolve past it perhaps it will cease to exist for good.

I agree with Joseph I enjoy most of my life. There are bitter and resentful parts to my psyche and a lot of that is aimed towards God and that's why I'm asking if he is weak or if he sadistic or if he thinks he has a greater plan that warrants all this suffering.

I'm not fully sure of the answer yet, that's what this inquiry is about. 

Edited 1 hour ago by LordFall

[Jirh]

@LordFall

I'm not disagreeing, but what does God have to do with anything?

[LordFall]

8 minutes ago, Jirh said:

@LordFall

I'm not disagreeing, but what does God have to do with anything?

I did not create reality. Did you?

The 3rd option is that reality created itself through the big bang or another far fetched idea if you wanna go down the atheistic route. Therefore suffering is not personal and doesn't fit the criteria for sadism. If that's your claim then fine but I would argue against that line of reasoning in many ways that I think invalidate it. 

The 4th option is that God created reality. Now we're discussing why he put so much suffering in it. Is it for a fundamental good reason of progress? Maybe but I haven't seen a convincing argument for it yet. An unsettling but very plausible reality is that God is similar to how he was described in the old testament and has a very cruel streak and likes to test mortals and is therefore by definition sadistic. I have not seen a rebuttal to that claim that holds up to scrutiny in this thread. 

Leo had a good video on the dark side of love that points towards reality behind partly ruthless by design. I think that makes sense but there are plot holes to that theory which is what I'm inquiring about. 

Edited 1 hour ago by LordFall

[yetineti]

19 minutes ago, LordFall said:

I don't think I'm misunderstanding anything. If that's the case feel free to explain how.

We have numerous times, you just keep insulting us and claiming we’re wrong without knowing the answer yourself.

Rude and immature. Circular and ignorant.

Quote

You can see how what you're saying is foolish and doesn't make sense right? It's not only a bad faith argument but delusional. If you want to argue that reality doesn't exist then I don't know you're lost and on your own by your own definition. Good luck.

Of course it seems foolish. I can admit that and I appreciate the question. Unfortunately your feelings on it don’t change anything.

That only person that is lost is you. You have displayed numerous limited beliefs in this and don’t seem to be able to make any actual points other than insult people still.

It can’t even pass for intellectual anymore. It’s passing for a guy that puts his responses into Gemini.

Quote

How so?

@Xonas Pitfall I don't think you're making much sense. Clearly God can maintain compartments that are extremely stable since he has put very specific conditions for us to be experience wobbly reality like intentionally consuming psychedelics.

You haven’t thought anybody has made sense, except you, extremely arrogantly.

Quote

Otherwise all humanity would be schizophrenic and there wouldn't really be a human race. 

The point is that there is a large amount of suffering and that if we understand how to counter it and evolve past it perhaps it will cease to exist for good.

Want whatever you want. Doesn’t make it possible.

Quote

I agree with Joseph I enjoy most of my life. There are bitter and resentful parts to my psyche and a lot of that is aimed towards God and that's why I'm asking if he is weak or if he sadistic or if he thinks he has a greater plan that warrants all this suffering.

I'm not fully sure of the answer yet, that's what this inquiry is about.

There has not actually been an inquiry. You have not entertained more than one idea.

Edited 1 hour ago by yetineti

[yetineti]

9 minutes ago, LordFall said:

I did not create reality. Did you?

The 3rd option is that reality created itself through the big bang or another far fetched idea if you wanna go down the atheistic route. Therefore suffering is not personal and doesn't fit the criteria for sadism. If that's your claim then fine but I would argue against that line of reasoning in many ways that I think invalidate it. 

The 4th option is that God created reality. Now we're discussing why he put so much suffering in it. Is it for a fundamental good reason of progress? Maybe but I haven't seen a convincing argument for it yet. An unsettling but very plausible reality is that God is similar to how he was described in the old testament and has a very cruel streak and likes to test mortals and is therefore by definition sadistic. I have not seen a rebuttal to that claim that holds up to scrutiny in this thread. 

Leo had a good video on the dark side of love that points towards reality behind partly ruthless by design. I think that makes sense but there are plot holes to that theory which is what I'm inquiring about. 

That’s all you can imagine? Those are the only possibilities? Yikes! You’re in for a rude awakening, if any at all, frankly.

Going to have to be much more creative to understand God.

PS: ask your Gemini all the points I made that you haven’t acknowledged yet  

Edited 1 hour ago by yetineti

[LordFall]

5 minutes ago, yetineti said:

That’s all you can imagine? Those are the only possibilities? Yikes! You’re in for a rude awakening, if any at all, frankly.

That’s two posts of deflection , but not a single counter-argument.

What I’m using is basic abductive reasoning, inferring the most plausible explanation from observable facts, paired with a simple deductive dilemma.

You claim there are "other possibilities," yet you haven't named one. You claim suffering "fundamentally does not exist," which isn't metaphysics—it's an unfalsifiable evasion that deletes the data point to protect the premise.

If you have an actual ontological model that accounts for biological agony without retreating into solipsism, sadism, or pretending pain is imaginary, articulate the premises. Otherwise, the condescension just reads as an admission that you don't have an answer but are too arrogant to simply admit it. 

Edited 1 hour ago by LordFall

[Jirh]

15 minutes ago, LordFall said:

I did not create reality. Did you?

The 3rd option is that reality created itself through the big bang or another far fetched idea if you wanna go down the atheistic route. Therefore suffering is not personal and doesn't fit the criteria for sadism. If that's your claim then fine but I would argue against that line of reasoning in many ways that I think invalidate it. 

The 4th option is that God created reality. Now we're discussing why he put so much suffering in it. Is it for a fundamental good reason of progress? Maybe but I haven't seen a convincing argument for it yet. An unsettling but very plausible reality is that God is similar to how he was described in the old testament and has a very cruel streak and likes to test mortals and is therefore by definition sadistic. I have not seen a rebuttal to that claim that holds up to scrutiny in this thread. 

Leo had a good video on the dark side of love that points towards reality behind partly ruthless by design. I think that makes sense but there are plot holes to that theory which is what I'm inquiring about. 

There are way too many more options. Probably an infinite number of possibilities about the origin of life. But in the end, they're all speculation. So what's the point?

Like maybe God did everything in option 4 then died at some point, hit by a gigantic star or something. Maybe no creation happened at all and reality is ever eternal and we're just temporary projections. Maybe God is bored. Maybe God killed himself. Maybe he retired. Maybe there's more than one God. Maybe the Gods are fighting too. Maybe anything.

How would you or anyone know? Even AI cannot answer that.

Edited 58 minutes ago by Jirh