Typology, Jungian Functions, MBTI, catchall

[Joseph Maynor]

5 minutes ago, Joshe said:

How to distinguish between Ti analysis and Te analysis? 

I could be wrong but someone like Emerald seems Ti to me. And keep in mind, Ti is 3rd in the stack for an INFJ. Some will have it more developed than others. 

I don't know her type, but I generally look at the first 2 cognitive functions to assess type.  

[Natasha Tori Maru]

3 minutes ago, Joshe said:

Yeah, that seems right. I've probably mixing up Ne for Ni. INTP it is! Mark it @Carl-Richard

I see jumping between conceptual domains, generating analogies, alternative interpretations. Lots of hodge-podge combining of alternate ideas and holding space for concepts/thoughts without an immediate commitment. Carl also has a habit of distinguishing the model from the thing being modelled. Always taking a topic and opening the concepts out to a big tree of branches. I am no typologist, these are just the things he does by default  

I find it fun to rub brains with his flavour of Ne! @Carl-Richard

[Joshe]

1 minute ago, Joseph Maynor said:

I don't know her type, but I generally look at the first 2 cognitive functions to assess type.  

That's often enough, but not always. You can have a very analytical INFJ. 

If you look at what Emerald does, she's tending to the tribe and cares more about that than she does analysis. INTJ doesn't do that. 

[Joshe]

4 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

I see jumping between conceptual domains, generating analogies, alternative interpretations. Lots of hodge-podge combining of alternate ideas and holding space for concepts/thoughts without an immediate commitment. Carl also has a habit of distinguishing the model from the thing being modelled. Always taking a topic and opening the concepts out to a big tree of branches. I am no typologist, these are just the things he does by default  

I find it fun to rub brains with his flavour of Ne! @Carl-Richard

Yeah, it's almost like he values Ne just as much Ti. 

[Carl-Richard]

14 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

I see jumping between conceptual domains, generating analogies, alternative interpretations. Lots of hodge-podge combining of alternate ideas and holding space for concepts/thoughts without an immediate commitment. Carl also has a habit of distinguishing the model from the thing being modelled. Always taking a topic and opening the concepts out to a big tree of branches. I am no typologist, these are just the things he does by default  

I find it fun to rub brains with his flavour of Ne! @Carl-Richard

😁

 

@Joshe @Natasha Tori Maru But what about the F's? 🤔

Edited 2 hours ago by Carl-Richard

[Joseph Maynor]

14 minutes ago, Joshe said:

That's often enough, but not always. You can have a very analytical INFJ. 

If you look at what Emerald does, she's tending to the tribe and cares more about that than she does analysis. INTJ doesn't do that. 

I don't see Fe which is my helping function as "tending to the tribe".  It is more like feeling energy or vibe of people and situations in the world.  This is why it is important for me to know what someone looks like or see them in person.  My Fe wants to know the energy or vibe of someone or a group in order to help my Ni.  It definitely is feeling (energy communication more generally), and it is directed outward.  This is great for talking to everyone, which I enjoy a lot.

[Joseph Maynor]

Jung would spend a lot time with someone before considering typing them.  It is hard to type others, but some people are better at this than others.  If I met someone in person I could probably type them.  

[eos_nyxia]

@Joshe @LordFall @Natasha Tori Maru

Thanks for the suggestions and insights everyone! You've given me a lot to mull over.

[Joshe]

1 hour ago, Joseph Maynor said:

I don't see Fe which is my helping function as "tending to the tribe".  It is more like feeling energy or vibe of people and situations in the world.  This is why it is important for me to know what someone looks like or see them in person.  My Fe wants to know the energy or vibe of someone or a group in order to help my Ni.  It definitely is feeling (energy communication more generally), and it is directed outward.  This is great for talking to everyone, which I enjoy a lot.

By "tending to the tribe", I mean getting your cues from the tribe, pinging off them, taking them into consideration. The tribe is the main reference point for Fe user behavior. And that's because extroverted feeling is feeling outwardly, not inwardly, and the only thing to feel against outwardly is other people.

Why do you think you want to know what is going on with people? Why does your Ni need that? What is so important about that data? Something is being served.

So, tending to the tribe doesn't necessarily mean taking care of them, although that is an Fe thing, but it's more so that Fe is pinging off the tribe to feed Ni, so it can know what to do and munch on what it considers important, which is derived from the Fe data. 

That's my understanding anway. 

Edited 34 minutes ago by Joshe

[eos_nyxia]

@Joshe This chart is a good example of why I find I find the functions confusing, haha. Because you really have to strongly prefer one mode over the other, right? I still have my native personality fluency, but genuinely they have changed quite a bit, and genuinely my preferences have both become much more broad and also adaptable (minus the introversion bit, arguably I've gotten "worse" as an adult).

If I had been typed in my teens and 20s, I would definitely skew more toward native INTP/Ti-Ne characteristics without a doubt, but as of now (based on one of the charts you posted):  

This probably requires some explanation (or like, a whole ass legend)... 

yellow = #1 priority    blue = #2 priority  (in terms of how much I tend to value one thing over another, or absolute value preference) 

an equal sign  = I value both equally (in an absolute value sense), likewise: > or < to denote preference 

The arrow means I prioritize doing one thing first, and then the other thing second, usually for a very specific reason. For example, for point 4, I consider it absolutely essential to do both, and I consider it to be the best and most balanced cognitive-centered approach. Cast your net as wide as you can within a legible time period in a way that you can manage to the best of your ability, otherwise you are working with a much more narrow range of experiences or data.... on purpose. And that is never a good thing, to have an overly narrow view of yourself and the world. Now you now have to defend your model or take the time and energy to keep adjusting your working models of the world. 

It's just not very efficient.

The only other superior option IMO is to have intuition that is so honed and precise that you can use that instead of manually going through certain psychological processes over and over (as if you were running a program), which puts constraints on what can be done with a given amount of time and energy. I'll just call it bottlenecking. A good example of this in a more simple way: a child is naturally highly gifted at math and they have their own process of working out problems, so they can "intuitively" do multiple steps instantly or (or near instantly). They can then choose to write down all the steps manually or not. Writing down the steps did not help that child work out the answer. If they had written it down, it would have been much more effort for them because they are roleplaying a process which is not native to them. (Source: my husband, but also myself.) You can develop these types of qualities with focus and intention though, it's not just for "the gifted". 

Likewise, with 8), shouldn't I be focusing on models first and then definitions later? Seems like a waste of time otherwise. And with 17), I've mostly curbed the childhood tendency to daydream and build castles in my head. If I do it, it's very much on purpose.

Edited 24 minutes ago by eos_nyxia

[Joseph Maynor]

19 minutes ago, Joshe said:

By "tending to the tribe", I mean getting your cues from the tribe, pinging off them, taking them into consideration. The tribe is the main reference point for Fe user behavior. And that's because extroverted feeling is feeling outwardly, not inwardly, and the only thing to feel against outwardly is other people.

Why do you think you want to know what is going on with people? Why does your Ni need that? What is so important about that data? Something is being served.

So, tending to the tribe doesn't necessarily mean taking care of them, although that is an Fe thing, but it's more so that Fe is pinging off the tribe to feed Ni, so it can know what to do and munch on what it considers important, which is derived from the Fe data. 

That's my understanding anway. 

A better way to think about the cognitive functions besides helping and dominant is -- introverted means looking inside whereas extroverted means looking outside.  I'm not disagreeing with you necessarily.  Fe means looking outside for feeling.  Ti means looking inside for thinking, etc.  Inner-focused vs. outer-focused for the i or e in cognitive functions.

Edited 16 minutes ago by Joseph Maynor