What did your biggest stage transition actually look like?

[Joseph Maynor]

It also seems to be taboo to create spiral stages beyond Turquoise in my experience.  Many people will react to this not well.  I give anyone props who propose stages beyond Turquoise.

[Carl-Richard]

6 minutes ago, LordFall said:

I don't claim to be turquoise, but I have had many mystical experiences experiencing the world from that paradigm.

Turquoise is a conspiracy by culturally homogeneous empirical samples misappropriating a domain of experience as an ontogenetic level.

If you want to know what anything of that means:

 

[LordFall]

@Carl-Richard You’re right that Western theorists often confuse temporary spiritual states with actual ego stages, but using that to invalidate Stage Turquoise is an intellectual blunder. 

Yellow’s trap is over-intellectualization. At Yellow, you’re the detached engineer standing outside the machine, mapping out levers and feedback loops. It’s competent, but it’s still fundamentally mental and mechanical.

Turquoise isn’t just rediscovering ancient Eastern mysticism or New Age vibes; it solves Yellow's fatal flaw. It takes all that complex systems thinking and actually embodies it—moving from viewing reality as an engineered mechanism you analyze, to realizing you are a living cell inside the organism itself.

[Carl-Richard]

1 hour ago, LordFall said:

@Carl-Richard You’re right that Western theorists often confuse temporary spiritual states with actual ego stages, but using that to invalidate Stage Turquoise is an intellectual blunder. 

Yellow’s trap is over-intellectualization. At Yellow, you’re the detached engineer standing outside the machine, mapping out levers and feedback loops. It’s competent, but it’s still fundamentally mental and mechanical.

Turquoise isn’t just rediscovering ancient Eastern mysticism or New Age vibes; it solves Yellow's fatal flaw. It takes all that complex systems thinking and actually embodies it—moving from viewing reality as an engineered mechanism you analyze, to realizing you are a living cell inside the organism itself.

1. You can read the rest of the thread. 2. Why?

[Joshe]

11 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

Turquoise is a conspiracy by culturally homogeneous empirical samples misappropriating a domain of experience as an ontogenetic level.

If you want to know what anything of that means:

 

Tier 2 itself is baloney. It's basically a guess about where the line goes, derived from personality profiles the authors thought were next level.

"Yellow" is a type, not a stage. You can't get a yellow person without specific stable traits.

The spiral conflates temperament with universal development trajectory, and I don't have any reason to believe collective humanity on a long enough timeline would adopt these traits. It's possible, but it seems highly speculative and I don't feel comfortable basing my map of reality off it. 

Edited 1 hour ago by Joshe

[Joshe]

Here's the cold hard basic truth about SD

[LordFall]

@Carl-Richard Because an engineer who treats an ecosystem as a machine to manipulate will inevitably create second-order side effects that break the system. You cannot sustainably govern or optimize a living whole from an attitude of mechanical detachment. That’s why.

 

@Joshe Calling it purely a "personality type" misses how life conditions force worldview evolution. You don't get "Yellow" just because you're born with an analytical mind; you reach systemic thinking when the simplistic dogmas of Blue, the individualist rat race of Orange, and the egalitarian consensus paralysis of Green completely fail to resolve the chaotic, interconnected problems in front of you.

Temperament influences how you express a stage, but Tier 2 is fundamentally about cognitive complexity which is the capacity to hold multiple competing paradigms simultaneously without needing to destroy any of them to feel safe.