I want to have sex with a girl this week

[LordFall]

1 minute ago, Valach said:

Sure, if it did not have its benefits, guys would not be doing that, I am not disputing that. But you pay the price.

What price? 

[Olaf]

@Valach he is more spiritually advanced then Leo for sure, he is being present and laughing, not being stuck in the head, which is the whole point of spirituality, to be present and laughing, that is also why I can't stand serious people anymore and negative bullshit.

[Olaf]

and this whole idea of being creepy and being seen as being creepy is just insecurity, this is why I didn't tolerate Leo saying that Owen is a creep, because he is just shaming guys from improving themself. The most creepy thing is trying to not be creepy. 

[LordFall]

4 minutes ago, Olaf said:

@Valach he is more spiritually advanced then Leo for sure, he is being present and laughing, not being stuck in the head, which is the whole point of spirituality, to be present and laughing, that is also why I can't stand serious people anymore and negative bullshit.

Dogs are present and happy, doesn't mean they're spiritually advanced. Don't conflate being detached and enjoying the present moment with high development. A lot of it comes from avoidance, a lot of these dudes defend Andrew Tate, for example, because they avoid the hard truths of what he represents and just like that he's "good vibes," validates their insecurities/misdirect their grievances towards the unfair system (THeMaTrix) and drives a Bugatti.

I don't know if Owen Cook specifically has spoken well about Andrew Tate but I know that Michael Sartain has. I even specifically dmed him about it and he stood up for him, I lost some respect for him that day. He's still a smart guy that taught me a lot about game so it's important for us to be able to deconstruct people to assess them accurately and not create idols out of flawed individuals. 

I like Owen a lot and I'm very grateful for what he's taught me but calling him more spiritually advanced than Leo is coping lol 

Edited 1 hour ago by LordFall

[Valach]

9 minutes ago, LordFall said:

What price? 

Too many to name, from what I observed in men in real life:

- You learn to objectify woman.

- You learn to manipulate people.

- You become hedonist.

- You become emotionally numb.

- You become validation addict.

- It will make you struggle with relationships.

- You will remain deeply insecure with no real self esteem.

 

The ultimate downside of PUA is that you will burn way too much time focusing on that instead of doing real growth and real healing.

Edited 1 hour ago by Valach

[Valach]

6 minutes ago, Olaf said:

@Valach he is more spiritually advanced then Leo for sure, he is being present and laughing, not being stuck in the head, which is the whole point of spirituality, to be present and laughing, that is also why I can't stand serious people anymore and negative bullshit.

People in the nigth club are laughing and present, does not make them evolved or healthy. You are free to keep your beliefs. I also used to admire Owen, now I see him as deeply problematic person. But I would probably also not listen at the time.

[Olaf]

@Valach the only real insecurity is having approach anxiety and you will not theoretically get out of that, you will only overcome that by approaching more. Never has anyone removed social anxiety by theoretically getting to a conclusion that it is bullshit. They had to take action and over time they become more confident. You are not even 1% as confident as Owen, for sure. 

[LordFall]

2 minutes ago, Valach said:

Too many to name, from what I observed in men in real life:
- You learn to objective woman.

- You learn to manipulate people.

- You become hedonist.

- You become emotionally numb.

- You become validation addict.

- It will make you struggle with relationships.

- You will remain deeply insecure with no real self esteem.

 

The ultimate downside of PUA is that you will burn way too much time focusing on that instead of doing real growth and real healing.

I think you're generalizing and perhaps even projecting.

This depends on the teacher that people learn from and who they are as an individual before they get into it. You undermine your point and it's credibility by making shallow observations instead of going deeper to the truth of the phenomena.

Learning PUA is fundamentally a skill that teaches you social self-sufficiency and thus freedom and power when it comes to your dating and social life. It's a very rare skillset in society that's not widely taught and represents the culmination of the life's work of many very smart and competent men.

That some misuse it to further their trauma and treat others poorly does not invalidate the incredible nature of it. 

[Olaf]

@LordFall yes he probably hasn't approached one girl in his life, he is talking bs

[Ulax]

5 minutes ago, Valach said:

Too many to name, from what I observed in men in real life:

- You learn to objectify woman.

- You learn to manipulate people.

- You become hedonist.

- You become emotionally numb.

- You become validation addict.

- It will make you struggle with relationships.

- You will remain deeply insecure with no real self esteem.

 

The ultimate downside of PUA is that you will burn way too much time focusing on that instead of doing real growth and real healing.

What's the alternative though?

If you don't do pickup then sexual frustration will consume you.

I know because I stopped pickup before for reasons you mentioned but I found I had few dating options and I suffered a lot accordingly.

[Valach]

Just now, LordFall said:

I think you're generalizing and perhaps even projecting.

This depends on the teacher that people learn from and who they are as an individual before they get into it. You undermine your point and it's credibility by making shallow observations instead of going deeper to the truth of the phenomena.

Learning PUA is fundamentally a skill that teaches you social self-sufficiency and thus freedom and power when it comes to your dating and social life. It's a very rare skillset in society that's not widely taught and represents the culmination of the life's work of many very smart and competent men.

That some misuse it to further their trauma and treat others poorly does not invalidate the incredible nature of it. 

And you are projecting by that I am projecting, so we keep on having the same discourse for the last 5 months. I can't empirically prove anything as this is not scientific field. It is very hard to quantify something as emotional health or psychological well-being. And you know it.

[Olaf]

@Ulax don't listen to him, his negativity will ruin your game

[Ulax]

Just now, Olaf said:

@LordFall yes he probably hasn't approached one girl in his life, he is talking bs

I think Valach is legit.

But he falls into the same trap as David Tian and Neil Strauss.

[Valach]

Just now, Ulax said:

What's the alternative though?

If you don't do pickup then sexual frustration will consume you.

I know because I stopped pickup before for reasons you mentioned but I found I had few dating options and I suffered a lot accordingly.

You can satisfy your sexual needs whilst realizing that there is deeper stuff going on and focus on that as well. I am not advocating for people to become celibate.

[Valach]

1 minute ago, Olaf said:

@LordFall yes he probably hasn't approached one girl in his life, he is talking bs

I have done plenty of approaching and even semi-coached couple of guys in the community. In the past, that is.

[Ulax]

Just now, Valach said:

You can satisfy your sexual needs whilst realizing that there is deeper stuff going on and focus on that as well. I am not advocating for people to become celibate.

This is too vague

[Olaf]

@Valach but how is he gonna get laid without doing pick up  you are talking in circles

[Ulax]

Just now, Olaf said:

@Valach but how is he gonna get laid without doing pick up  you are talking in circles

Exactly

[Valach]

Just now, Ulax said:

This is too vague

Find a relationship or fwb via the route you choose (pickup, online dating or social circle stuff) and focus on internal stuff. I remain single and without sex on purpose right now but I understand that it does not really serve guys at different stages of their lives. 

[Olaf]

Everyone just tries to find reasons to not do pick up, cause it is hard, even Leo talks himself out of it saying he is introverted, so what