Why do liberals support Islam?

[Monster Energy]

10 minutes ago, Nercohype said:

@Monster Energy And so do you have emotional bias towards whatever nonsense you believe in. 

Like all other right wing lunatics. You have comprehension problem. 

Confidence without clarity

That’s a nice collection of labels, but you still haven’t demonstrated that I’m wrong. If you think I have a comprehension problem, point out the specific argument I misunderstood. 

 

[Nercohype]

@Monster Energy I'm not saying the doctrines and histories of Christianity and Islam are interchangeable. Of course they have different histories and different teachings, and both can be criticized. What I'm challenging is the standard you're using to judge them. If your argument is that an ideology should be judged by both what it teaches and what happens when those ideas become political, then I'm completely willing to apply that standard to both Christianity and Islam. But then we also have to acknowledge the history of Christian political movements, religious persecution, discrimination against LGBTQ people, and the ways Christian nationalism is currently trying to influence laws and people's rights. And I'm not "pointing at Christianity whenever Islam gets criticized." I'm pointing out a double standard. If someone says, "Islam is dangerous because some Muslims want religious laws imposed on everyone," then it's perfectly legitimate to ask whether we apply the same criticism to Christians who want Christian religious morality imposed through the state.

I also don't think "Islam does X" is a meaningful statement without specifying what you mean. Are you talking about Islamic scripture, classical Islamic jurisprudence, Islamism, specific governments, or individual Muslims? Those aren't interchangeable either.

I'm perfectly fine with criticizing Islamic doctrine. What I reject is using that criticism as a reason to treat ordinary Muslims as inherently dangerous or assume that they will eventually take away other people's rights.

My position is pretty simple: believe whatever you want. Muslim, Christian, Jewish, atheist I don't care. The moment someone tries to use their beliefs to take away other people's basic rights or harm people, I'll oppose it. And I apply that standard equally.

[Nercohype]

@Monster Energy I Have demonstrated. Just read it, for fuck sakes 😂

[Monster Energy]

5 minutes ago, Nercohype said:

@Monster Energy I'm perfectly fine with criticizing Islamic doctrine. What I reject is using that criticism as a reason to treat ordinary Muslims as inherently dangerous or assume that they will eventually take away other people's rights.

 

I’m using your favourite logic:

“Not all men, but always a man.”

Except I’m saying: “Not all Muslims, but always a Muslim.”

 

[Nercohype]

I will say this lastly: we will never agree with each other on this, and continuing this debate is just a waste of both our time. All I want to do is protect people who have done nothing wrong and who are being abused and used. I will always fight fiercely against that. I don't care what people pray to. I don't give a shit. As long as it doesn't hurt other people or take away their right to live as human beings, I have no problem with it.

That's what I stand for, and that's what I will continue to fight for.

[Nercohype]

@Monster Energy  Well good for you, you are wrong 😁

[Monster Energy]

7 minutes ago, Nercohype said:

@Monster Energy I Have demonstrated. Just read it, for fuck sakes 😂

Your demonstration is false and illogical.

 

 

[Monster Energy]

Just now, Nercohype said:

@Monster Energy  Well good for you, you are wrong 😁

I’m not and you can’t show me why

☪️ancer 

[Monster Energy]

4 minutes ago, Nercohype said:

I will say this lastly: we will never agree with each other on this, and continuing this debate is just a waste of both our time. All I want to do is protect people who have done nothing wrong and who are being abused and used. I will always fight fiercely against that. I don't care what people pray to. I don't give a shit. As long as it doesn't hurt other people or take away their right to live as human beings, I have no problem with it.

That's what I stand for, and that's what I will continue to fight for.

Why do you support a country that doesn’t support your rights? If you can’t answer this directly, then this conversation is over.

 

[Carl-Richard]

8 hours ago, Nercohype said:

@Monster EnergyChristianity doesn't automatically make someone violent, and neither does Islam. That's exactly my point. I'm talking about what happens when religious fundamentalism becomes political and starts dictating other people's rights.

• When Monster Energy takes a cab to the airport in his country, he is fearing for his life.
• He could not live in New York City where the mayor is a muslim or live in Michigan where a muslim won the Democratic primary and is running for Senate. 
• He could not live in the UAE where Europeans and Americans flock like birds as tourists and entrepreneurs.
• He could not visit Istanbul which has a lower crime rate than Malmö but higher percentage of muslims.
• He could not participate in a Chess tournament in Saudi Arabia because he would be paralyzed in fear and not able to think.
• Qatar, Kuwait, Brunei, Bahrain is off the table, even though people who earn 5x his salary travel there for business meetings many times a year.
• He could not enter an Uppsala university classroom to learn Muslim theology because he would fear being beaten by the Muslim professor with 2-3 decades of academic experience.

He will now concede that these things exist and they are not too bad. But then he will continue to focus on areas of crime, poverty, low education, young males, and cases of religious fundamentalism trampling human rights, because that's how his narrative keeps afloat.

Edited 3 hours ago by Carl-Richard

[Monster Energy]

12 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

• When Monster Energy takes a cab to the airport in his country, he is fearing for his life.
• He could not live in New York City where the mayor is a muslim or live in Michigan where a muslim won the Democratic primary and is running for Senate. 
• He could not live in the UAE where Europeans and Americans flock like birds as tourists or entrepreneurs.
• He could not visit Istanbul which has a lower crime rate than Malmö but higher percentage of muslims.
• He could not participate in a Chess tournament in Saudi Arabia because he would be paralyzed in fear and not able to think.
• Qatar, Kuwait, Brunei, Bahrain is off the table, even though people who earn 5x his salary travel there for business meetings many times a year.
• He could not enter a Uppsala university classroom in to learn Muslim theology because he would fear being beaten by the Muslim professor with 2 decades of academic experience.

He will now concede that these things exist and they are not too bad. But then he will continue to focus on areas of crime, poverty, low education, young males, and cases of religious fundamentalism trampling human rights, because that's how his narrarive keeps afloat.

Go live in Afghanistan for a week and then come back and tell me your theory still holds.  

 

[Carl-Richard]

54 minutes ago, Monster Energy said:

Go live in Afghanistan for a week and then come back and tell me your theory still holds.  

Well, it holds up perfectly: poverty, low education, and cases of religious fundamentalism trampling human rights.

Now tell me how "Islam/muslims are bad" holds when Afghanistan is your metric.

Edited 6 hours ago by Carl-Richard

[Monster Energy]

59 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Well, it holds up perfectly: poverty, low education, and cases of religious fundamentalism trampling human rights.

Now, tell me how "Islam/muslims are bad" holds when Afghanistan is your metric.

Afghanistan is pretty much the point I’m making. I don’t like Muslim countries because I find many of the values and beliefs there dangerous. I never said every Muslim is dangerous, but I do believe the majority are. You can disagree, obviously. Just don’t expect me to suddenly change my mind because you found a few Muslims who are nice and harmless.

 

[Carl-Richard]

2 hours ago, Monster Energy said:

Afghanistan is pretty much the point I’m making.

Motte and Bailey is pretty much the "style of argumentation" you're engaging in. 

 

2 hours ago, Monster Energy said:

I don’t like Muslim countries because I find many of the values and beliefs there dangerous.

What specific Muslim countries?

 

2 hours ago, Monster Energy said:

I never said every Muslim is dangerous, but I do believe the majority are.

In what way are "the majority of muslims" dangerous?

Edited 3 hours ago by Carl-Richard