Relationship Based on Truth, Honesty & Vulnerability

[LordFall]

5 hours ago, Miguel1 said:

@Natasha Tori Maru It’s not that I think you are not coming in good faith.

The issue is that since we don’t align in the fundamentals when it comes to this matter, asking such vague question like ”do you trust yourself?” just makes things more confusing.

Do I come across as someone who has zero trust in himself?

No you clearly are confident but you seem to have a chip on your shoulder and are defensive. The ironic thing is this thread is titled "Relationship Based on Truth, Honesty & Vulnerability," yet every time someone asks you to be vulnerable or share the specifics of your own dating history, you retreat into vague generalizations about toxic people or question people's motives.

I myself exposed my past relationship shortcomings and lessons and invited you to do the same but you seem to have trouble doing so and get defensive. 

4 hours ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

It appears you have come to the conclusion I can be of no assistance to you.

I recind my questions. 

I'm much more aggressive than Natasha so I will not let you get away with this avoidance mechanism. You're a cool guy bro there is no need to hide in platitudes and spiritual superiority. 

[Miguel1]

@LordFall My bad. I have been very busy with work and haven’t had proper time to answer here.

I don’t think I am defensive. I just don’t see eye to eye with you guys.

In an ideal world, hopefully in the future when we are more conscious as a species, we can be open, honest and vulnerable with each other from the get go — the way Naftali Moses promotes.

There is nothing to hide.

You don’t need polices if humans were more conscious and mature.

Similarly you don’t need to hide and play dating games if you were more conscious and mature.

I am shocked this is so hard to grasp by you guys.

All this talk on this thread is simply making me double down and triple down on real authenticity. I try to shred as much social games from my personality as possible. I want to be as real and honest from the get go as possible with the people I meet.

What else is the point?

- - - - -

If I go out to pick up girls just purely for sex, then I will put on my seduction and PUA character on. But that’s just it. Just for sex. I do not expect anything genuine, real and long-lasting from it.

Edited 10 hours ago by Miguel1

[LordFall]

I still think you're spiritually bypassing and by hoping that your authenticity is enough. I never said to not be authentic but I don't even know what that means, I've pretty much never lied to women in my whole game career I always made it a point to tell all the girls I've dated I studied pick up for example and that's never backfired on me. Offering value as a man is a different concept. It's like what does authenticity have to do with feeding yourself? It's tangential. 

Feel free to experiment with this style of dating for a few months and get back to us on how it worked out. I could be wrong and you could find what you want quickly but my guess is that it's gonna be a little harder than just trying to be authentic and hoping people accept you without getting down to the core of how who you are as a man and what you offer the women that you're hoping to date. 

 

[Miguel1]

@LordFall How am I spiritual by-passing? After sleeping with over a hundred girls, been in monogamous relationships for 11 years in the past 13 (lots of sex) with very beautiful gfs.

Why do you know more about me than I know? Perhaps this is the issue here?

And finally, there’s absolutely zero chance you are not lying to the girls you are dating. I know all the PUA tricks and the way they lie to themselves so they can sleep at night, as I used to practice all of them.

[LordFall]

10 minutes ago, Miguel1 said:

@LordFall How am I spiritual by-passing? After sleeping with over a hundred girls, been in monogamous relationships for 11 years in the past 13 (lots of sex) with very beautiful gfs.

Why do you know more about me than I know? Perhaps this is the issue here?

And finally, there’s absolutely zero chance you are not lying to the girls you are dating. I know all the PUA tricks and the way they lie to themselves so they can sleep at night, as I used to practice all of them.

The fact that you immediately reached for a body count flex and assumed I must be lying shows where your mindset actually sits. You're reacting to your own past burnout with PUA tricks by swinging to the opposite extreme. Integration means being honest, high-value, and socially calibrated all at once. Without needing to project your old habits onto me.

Edited 10 hours ago by LordFall

[Miguel1]

@LordFall Alright brother, it seems like everything I say will be turned around, and gaslighted by you. I can’t even answer your false accusations because you will just say that I am doing something wrong.

I don’t see a reason to continue this conversation. I thank you for your effort and participation.

[Rishabh R]

4 hours ago, Miguel1 said:

In an ideal world, hopefully in the future when we are more conscious as a species, we can be open, honest and vulnerable with each other from the get go — the way Naftali Moses promotes.

There is nothing to hide.

You don’t need polices if humans were more conscious and mature.

Similarly you don’t need to hide and play dating games if you were more conscious and mature.

I am shocked this is so hard to grasp by you guys.

All this talk on this thread is simply making me double down and triple down on real authenticity. I try to shred as much social games from my personality as possible. I want to be as real and honest from the get go as possible with the people I meet.

What else is the point?

This is maturity in dating in a nutshell.

[Natasha Tori Maru]

4 hours ago, Miguel1 said:

There is nothing to hide.

You don’t need polices if humans were more conscious and mature.

Similarly you don’t need to hide and play dating games if you were more conscious and mature.

I am shocked this is so hard to grasp by you guys.

You fundamentally do NOT understand what is being communicated to you in this thread.

You are refusing to be vulnerable & face parts of yourself.

I am not sure if you see this or not.

[Rishabh R]

4 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

You are refusing to be vulnerable & face parts of yourself.

Ok that's part of vulnerability but also expressing your dark side along with your strengths is vulnerability too. 

[Natasha Tori Maru]

2 minutes ago, Rishabh R said:

Ok that's part of vulnerability but also expressing your dark side along with your strengths is vulnerability too. 

Definitely.

We need to be in truth with ourselves in order to feel secure in our vulnerability.

The issues being discussed in this thread have very little to do with our relationships with others, and everything to do with our philosophy of self and our capacity to trust ourselves.

Vulnerability becomes far less threatening when we have internal alignment and honesty. The problem is not what another person might do with our vulnerability; it's whether we trust ourselves to recognize what is true, respond appropriately, and remain grounded regardless of the outcome.

There are issues with attachment going on that are part of our conditioning as humans. Until these are inspected we will get no where.

[Natasha Tori Maru]

I am not for Naftali Moses in terms of women - he doesn't understand women. His ideology of the feminine is busted. I bet you anything he has no sisters. Maybe he is good for men to listen to and benefit from, but not women. 

I think his philosophy is also rather poor.

I've listened to 6/7 interviews with him.

No offense to anyone who gets something from him. He seems very green.

[Rishabh R]

1 hour ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

it's whether we trust ourselves to recognize what is true, respond appropriately, and remain grounded regardless of the outcome.

Natasha, this is gold.

 

[LordFall]

I think this blog series perfectly encapsulates how to think about women as a man

https://www.woujo.com/blog/2019/12/15/the-purpose-series-part-2-of-3-how-women-are-attracted-to-men-with-attractive-purposes

The whole point is it talks about how journey pleasure is the most important thing to you as a man. Basically not being desperate for comfort or acceptance or safety or fuck even abundance. The whole point is that the journey is the destination and basically continual growth is the source of your power and attractiveness as a man. 

If you are able to make your life a continuous adventure that elevates yourself, the community and the women around you and have fun and purpose throughout it then there are not many more questions left to answer after that. 

So have have we conquered this week boys and did we enjoy it? 

[Jirh]

@Miguel1 I can't know for sure, but to me, it seems like your shell is tougher than your core. You have nice fancy ideas, but I don't think you have personally derived them for yourself. Maybe partially, but just not enough to be your core identity.

This is what pickup teaches you in practice. External appearances over the reality underneath.

[Miguel1]

20 minutes ago, Jirh said:

@Miguel1 I can't know for sure, but to me, it seems like your shell is tougher than your core. You have nice fancy ideas, but I don't think you have personally derived them for yourself. Maybe partially, but just not enough to be your core identity.

This is what pickup teaches you in practice. External appearances over the reality underneath.

I do have a hard shell. Hence I am practicing to break it and to be more real.

ENFJ’s shadows is that they are social chameleons. Their natural tendency is to get along with everyone, and hate being criticized.

And pickup just makes it worse as you learn to push buttons of an unconscious individual, rather than to face their real self.

[Jirh]

@Miguel1

[Miguel1]

@Natasha Tori Maru I think Naftali only has brothers. And many of them.

I will keep studying him, even though I don’t agree with everything he says, I resonate with his deep push for authenticity, honesty and vulnerability from the get go.

At least I want to practice that more in my life.

I’ve been the opposite of that all my life really, and it hasn’t borne fruits, as it wastes so much time with the wrong people.

In this current times, the middle path is most likely the right choice, but I still wanna challenge myself, experiment and directly experience true vulnerability and authenticity from the get go. But I am aware, such behaviour is most likely only going to be punished in our society.

[aurum]

4 minutes ago, Miguel1 said:

I will keep studying him, even though I don’t agree with everything he says, I resonate with his deep push for authenticity, honesty and vulnerability from the get go.

Watched a bit of the interview. He's seems good for everything you're working on.

[Miguel1]

4 minutes ago, aurum said:

Watched a bit of the interview. He's seems good for everything you're working on.

Lol. These ”holier than thou” projections and backhanded compliments are getting ridiculous.

[Natasha Tori Maru]

23 minutes ago, Miguel1 said:

Their natural tendency is to get along with everyone, and hate being criticized.

I think the desire for harmony is causing you to compromise authentic expression.

I do suspect this is something - perhaps, I am never 100% - you might struggle with more than someone like me.

A lot of your tension would rest in the space between harmony & connection and self expression.

Big marks of maturity, stability and self trust in relationships are often not lower conflict or friction; but how well we action resolve and handle ambiguity. It is the repair process that is a marker of higher consciousness. Friction is a given. 

Quote

I will keep studying him, even though I don’t agree with everything he says, I resonate with his deep push for authenticity, honesty and vulnerability from the get go.

I think this is why he is striking home so well with you - probably less some of his other traits  

Edited 1 hour ago by Natasha Tori Maru