Sri Niagaradasti Enlightenment Story

[Breakingthewall]

23 minutes ago, Wilhelm44 said:

I think there's this perception that when there's a permanent cessation of the seeker/separation, that you'll just be a blob laying in a corner of the room. But I don't see any reason why spirit and intelligence can't still do its thing, there's just no personal ownership of it all, ie no psychological suffering. 

Nature seems to be doing just fine without ego etc.

Even if the separation dissolves you are still a human, exactly than before. The difference is that you perceive the fact of being human as relative and death can be seen as a dissolution of this form in the ocean of being, but the human self still exist because it's a reality conditioned by evolution, not an illusion. 

Again, nisgardatta, ice cream or hammer?

[Jirh]

30 minutes ago, Wilhelm44 said:

Nature seems to be doing just fine without ego etc.

I think animals have some form of ego. It might not be as complex and full-fledged as human ego, but it is there, especially in higher species like mammals.

Even trees have some form of ego. And even simpler beings like paramecium. They all have an ego, or an identity of some sort. That's how they stay alive. At its most basic biological level, ego is the boundary that says: “This membrane is mine; that environment is not.”

Ego like the kernel that drives behavior in living beings, and it doesn't have to be a psychological phenomenon. It can dim, but it cannot disappear.

Until death.

Edited 2 hours ago by Jirh

[Breakingthewall]

32 minutes ago, Wilhelm44 said:

Nature seems to be doing just fine without ego etc.

Ego is an arising in the nature, not something alien to the nature 

[Wilhelm44]

@Jirh, @Breakingthewall

Yeah, ego is perhaps the wrong word. 

I think it's that seeking energy, feeling incomplete/separate etc, is what dissolved for Nisargadatta, Jim Newman etc.

Edited 1 hour ago by Wilhelm44

[Wilhelm44]

43 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Again, nisgardatta, ice cream or hammer?

I don't think common sense dissolves, just psychological suffering.

[Breakingthewall]

40 minutes ago, Jirh said:

Ego like the kernel that drives behavior in living beings, and it doesn't have to be a psychological phenomenon. It can dim, but it cannot disappear.

Exactly, ego can change but never disappear. The ego can cease to be an absolute, rigid structure defined by the social context and become flexible, capable of disconnecting at certain times.

The individual is not defined by the gaze of others but by their inner impulse, yet remains an individual, a human being with a defined psychological structure.

Denying this is the fundamental error of spirituality and creates confusion and closure.

[Breakingthewall]

1 minute ago, Wilhelm44 said:

I don't think common sense dissolves, just psychological suffering.

It depends, psychological suffering is just suffering. If they lock nisgardatta in a room of 2x1 for 3 years, would he suffer or not? Would be psychological suffering? If someone tortures his son in front him, he would suffer?

The point not having psychological suffering by default, but many people haven't and they aren't enlightened 

Edited 1 hour ago by Breakingthewall

[Wilhelm44]

1 minute ago, Breakingthewall said:

It depends, psychological suffering is just suffering. If they lock nisgardatta in a room of 2x1 for 3 years, would he suffer or not? Would be psychological suffering? 

It wouldn't be ideal for sure, physical discomfort would still happen.

But there wouldn't be additional layers of story (poor me etc).

[Breakingthewall]

1 minute ago, Wilhelm44 said:

But there wouldn't be additional layers of story (poor me etc).

True but psychological suffering still exist without story. Humans need human connection, purpose. Humans are collective beings. That's why nisgardatta becomes a teacher. Some love loneliness, same that there are autistic people, but this doesn't implies that they are enlightened 

[Joseph Maynor]

17 minutes ago, Wilhelm44 said:

I think it's that seeking energy, feeling incomplete/separate etc, is what dissolved for Nisargadatta, Jim Newman etc.

This seems to be the main teaching of many neo-advaitans -- There is no separate self.

[Wilhelm44]

2 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

True but psychological suffering still exist without story. Humans need human connection, purpose. Humans are collective beings. That's why nisgardatta becomes a teacher. Some love loneliness, same that there are autistic people, but this doesn't implies that they are enlightened 

I remember James Swartz, a Vedanta teacher, saying that after his awakening, he went to live in a remote cabin, every day he would go fishing, and he was happy as a lark. Did this for a few years apparently. But yeah I'm not saying we should deny ourselves human connection. I do think the whole purpose thing is transcended eventually. Which is why you'll here teachers like Adyashanti say, there's just no agenda with him. 

[Wilhelm44]

2 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

This seems to be the main teaching of many neo-advaitans -- There is no separate self.

Which also corresponds with Leo's teaching about solipsism.

(ps I don't really know neo advaita, some of them sound a bit silly, right now I'm resonating with Jim Newman, that's about it.)

[Joseph Maynor]

1 minute ago, Wilhelm44 said:

I remember James Swartz, a Vedanta teacher, saying that after his awakening, he went to live in a remote cabin, every day he would go fishing, and he was happy as a lark. Did this for a few years apparently. But yeah I'm not saying we should deny ourselves human connection. I do think the whole purpose thing is transcended eventually. Which is why you'll here teachers like Adyashanti say, there's just no agenda with him. 

The problem is when it gets overly intellectual and constricting with the beliefs that are not seen as thoughts.  I like James Swartz.

[Joseph Maynor]

4 minutes ago, Wilhelm44 said:

Which also corresponds with Leo's teaching about solipsism.

(ps I don't really know neo advaita, some of them sound a bit silly, right now I'm resonating with Jim Newman, that's about it.)

What do you like about Jim Newman?

[Wilhelm44]

1 minute ago, Joseph Maynor said:

I like James Swartz.

His mom was a judge in Montana in the 60's

When he came back from India he found his mom having tea with some high society types in the garden.

She introduced Jim to her friends by saying:

"This is my son, he went to India to find himself" 

[Wilhelm44]

1 minute ago, Joseph Maynor said:

What do you like about Jim Newman?

Man I can't explain it, every time I listen, something unravels without any effort on my part.

[Joseph Maynor]

3 minutes ago, Wilhelm44 said:

Man I can't explain it, every time I listen, something unravels without any effort on my part.

He seems like Eckhart Tolle to me but he is pointing to the Now without words.  

[Wilhelm44]

3 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

He seems like Eckhart Tolle to me but he is pointing to the Now without words.  

Yeah, he just calls it This, or What's happening.

He'll even say there is no past, present or future, there's just This.

(I just think he's really good at pointing out the futility of seeking, and this allows for a natural unravelling of that seeking energy.)

[Wilhelm44]

10 hours ago, James123 said:

Life never changes, he always sell cigarettes, and continue to sell or yell at people.

Body always does as it used to be. Goes, argues, laugh, yet without the controller.

Putting the enlightenment as something to do with body, is the minds game. Charlatans 😂 

I wouldn't say it doesn't change. There's definitely some refinement/purification which seems to happen naturally.

[James123]

10 minutes ago, Wilhelm44 said:

I wouldn't say it doesn't change. There's definitely some refinement/purification which seems to happen naturally.

No. Only, attachment to thoughts doesn't happen, thoughts, feelings arises and falls. Thats all. 

Body has it's own destiny, what will happen, will happen.