Do Women Prefer Long Hair or Short Hair on Men?

[Leo Gura]

When women have to deal with no hair:

 

[Natasha Tori Maru]

Shaving my head was one of the most freeing and changing experiences for me.

And while I actively had a choice (IE I knew my hair would grow back, and I wasn't suffering from hairloss), it revealed how deeply attached I was to my appearance. It was key in dissolving that attachment and misplaced self worth. It also stopped me self-objectifying and leveraging off my looks as much as I did previously (not that I am some stunner, but I didn't get shit carded genetics wise).

Shaved it at 12, 22 and 31. Got bullied relentlessly for it also. I learned to not give fucks. 

When I first got diagnosed with Hashimoto's and my thyroid was out of control, I lost most of my eyebrows and suffered a lot of hair thinning. I've since had the worst of it in remission (hence the helmet hair images in the facecard thread where its gown back with a vengeance of babyhairs).

Attending too much to appearance has the drawback of potentially increasing attachment and investing our self worth in something that will fade. Immaterial. I feel it can run counter to consciousness work. This is another reason I am not for the looksmaxxing rubbish.

Edited 1 hour ago by Natasha Tori Maru

[LordFall]

52 minutes ago, Valach said:

Because then you get stuck in this place and you do not evolve. You "abundance" of woman becomes an addiction. You are not free, you are slave to your egoic desires.

What do you mean? Why is it an addiction, if you've completed your pickup journey then you are dating/married to your dream woman or women. Be careful of pretending to have transcended stage orange when your ego just realized that this shit was hard and it's much easier to now blame capitalism and shallowness for your lack of success than actually get success. 

Once you have mastered stage orange and have values centered around positive sum games from stage green and understand how the systems of the world works from stage yellow than you can become a powerful agent of change. Before that you're mostly inconsequential as an individual. 

 

[Valach]

1 minute ago, LordFall said:

What do you mean? Why is it an addiction, if you've completed your pickup journey then you are dating/married to your dream woman or women. Be careful of pretending to have transcended stage orange when your ego just realized that this shit was hard and it's much easier to now blame capitalism and shallowness for your lack of success than actually get success. 

Once you have mastered stage orange and have values centered around positive sum games from stage green and understand how the systems of the world works from stage yellow than you can become a powerful agent of change. Before that you're mostly inconsequential as an individual. 

 

Yeah, I don't think there is any point discussing this further.

[LordFall]

1 minute ago, Valach said:

Yeah, I don't think there is any point discussing this further.

I hope you reflect on our conversations and realize you still have much further to go in your journey my friend. I'm here anytime if you're open for feedback. 

[Valach]

5 minutes ago, LordFall said:

I hope you reflect on our conversations and realize you still have much further to go in your journey my friend. I'm here anytime if you're open for feedback. 

Such a egoless, stage yellow response my friend

[Natasha Tori Maru]

8 minutes ago, LordFall said:

Be careful of pretending to have transcended stage orange

This is not a correct framing.

No stages of the spiral are transcended.

They are integrated.

So there would be no "pretending" or "transension". 

There would simply be unintegrated elements.

[Natasha Tori Maru]

8 minutes ago, LordFall said:

I hope you reflect on our conversations and realize you still have much further to go in your journey my friend. I'm here anytime if you're open for feedback. 

I mean, this comes off as really condescending. You genuinely come across to me as insisting on your worldview while not truly exploring the experience of others to understand them.

I could be wrong. Just how it appears.

Edited 1 hour ago by Natasha Tori Maru

[LordFall]

I mean Valach doesn't seem to understand the concepts he's using and makes false equivalencies. As I've said before he thinks he has ended a journey when I've repeatedly pointed out to him the flaws in his perspective. If he's not open to feedback there's nothing to learn. 

I've broken down his perspective pretty accurately I think. He thinks that giving up on materialistic goals is integrating stage orange and he's now a wise and healthy stage green/yellow. I've said before multiple times in many how this is provably coping. If you have integrated stage orange then you can produce results in the systems of society that we have. If you can't but now "don't value" those results and give up on the goals that you had previously, to me to not repeat the word coping that's delusional or insanity. 

I've seen this process happen to many smart people, he sounds like a smart guy. Intelligence is just the start to really master your life and this reality though. 

@Natasha Tori Maru Also that's incorrect. It depends on which version you use but how Ken Wilber phrases it is literally word for word transcend and include. 

Edited 1 hour ago by LordFall

[Valach]

1 minute ago, LordFall said:

I mean Valach doesn't seem to understand the concepts he's using and makes false equivalencies. As I've said before he thinks he has ended a journey when I've repeatedly pointed out to him the flaws in his perspective. If he's not open to feedback there's nothing to learn. 

I've broken down his perspective pretty accurately I think. He thinks that giving up on materialistic goals is integrating stage orange and he's now a wise and healthy stage green/yellow. I've said before multiple times in many how this is provably coping. If you have integrated stage orange then you can produce results in the systems of society that we have. If you can't but now "don't value" those results and give up on the goals that you had previously, to me to not repeat the word coping that's delusional or insanity. 

How did you break it down exactly?

[Natasha Tori Maru]

3 minutes ago, LordFall said:

I mean Valach doesn't seem to understand the concepts he's using and makes false equivalencies. As I've said before he thinks he has ended a journey when I've repeatedly pointed out to him the flaws in his perspective. If he's not open to feedback there's nothing to learn. 

I've broken down his perspective pretty accurately I think. He thinks that giving up on materialistic goals is integrating stage orange and he's now a wise and healthy stage green/yellow. I've said before multiple times in many how this is provably coping. If you have integrated stage orange then you can produce results in the systems of society that we have. If you can't but now "don't value" those results and give up on the goals that you had previously, to me to not repeat the word coping that's delusional or insanity. 

Did he state the bolded, or is that your assumption? I just see a lot of assumptions in how you address others points that questioning would reveal could be wrong.

I think you tried to understand his perspective from your frame, but didn't openly enquire and seriously consider there may be other valid perspectives. 

Again, this is just how it looks to me. If you say it is not so, then for you, it is not so.

Edited 1 hour ago by Natasha Tori Maru

[Valach]

3 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

Did he state the bolded, or is that your assumption?

I think you tried to understand his perspective from your frame, but didn't openly enquire and seriously consider there may be other valid perspectives. 

Again, this is just how it looks to me. If you say it is not so, then for you, it is not so.

I did not see that sentence in bold before (maybe it was an edit?). That stuff was never my argument. Obviously I do not go around telling 20-year old virgins who are jobless that getting jobs or dating for a bit is useless.

But this is a forum about development and conscioussness and I feel like it is fair to point out that pickup, dating, sex and all the material aspects of it are stage orange and thus farly unconscious. You have to integrate stages to go up - you will always have some shadows, can't really escape that. But just as you can try to bypass some development by "fake evolving", you can get stuck in some stage and just dig yourself in it.

Edited 1 hour ago by Valach

[LordFall]

6 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

Did he state the bolded, or is that your assumption? I just see a lot of assumptions in how you address others points that questioning would reveal could be wrong.

I think you tried to understand his perspective from your frame, but didn't openly enquire and seriously consider there may be other valid perspectives. 

Again, this is just how it looks to me. If you say it is not so, then for you, it is not so.

 

7 minutes ago, Valach said:

How did you break it down exactly?

I mean you literally said that you gave up on relationships(maybe temporarily) to focus more on platonic friendships. That's great and all but you can't say you've succeeded at your pickup journey then. You say you're a software engineer, that's cool but that's nothing to do with creating your own systems. If you date a corporate woman you can't really bring her into your life you can at best each have your jobs and go home at the end of the day and comfort eachother before you go back to work the next day. To me that's not having transcended stage orange or perhaps you can say that's not having integrated stage yellow which has to do with making the systems of our reality work for you and not against you like Tier 1 stages are forced to do. 

[Valach]

8 minutes ago, LordFall said:

 

I mean you literally said that you gave up on relationships(maybe temporarily) to focus more on platonic friendships. That's great and all but you can't say you've succeeded at your pickup journey then. You say you're a software engineer, that's cool but that's nothing to do with creating your own systems. If you date a corporate woman you can't really bring her into your life you can at best each have your jobs and go home at the end of the day and comfort eachother before you go back to work the next day. To me that's not having transcended stage orange or perhaps you can say that's not having integrated stage yellow which has to do with making the systems of our reality work for you and not against you like Tier 1 stages are forced to do. 

1. I never claimed I am stage yellow.

2. I never claimed I rejected relationships. Yes, I am not dating NOW, but that is just for couple of months. I am sure I will be back to dating when I feel like that. I definitely do not live like some monk.

How do you expect success in integrating orange exactly? You do realize you do not need to have harem of 10 models and making millions of dollars in order to evolve past orange...otherwise people would not be getting past orange often since those things are rare. What integrating orange is about is integrating it's values and its positives, not it's material aspects. 

Edited 55 minutes ago by Valach

[LordFall]

5 minutes ago, Valach said:

1. I never claimed I am stage yellow.

2. I never claimed I rejected relationships. Yes, I am not dating NOW, but that is just for couple of months. I am sure I will be back to dating when I feel like that.

How do you expect success in orange exactly? You do realize you do not need to have harem of 10 models and making millions of dollars in order to evolve past orange...otherwise people would not be getting past orange often since those things are rare. What integrating orange is about is integrating it's values and its positives, not it's material aspects. 

Stage orange is about the real world economics of our reality and the markets that govern it. If someone watches an anti pollution video and are like wow corporations are bad penguins are dying! They did not just magically integrate stage orange. They started to realize that there are cause and effects in the world and that some corporations tend to use their incentives against the rest of reality.

To integrate and transcend stage orange you have to in charge of your material reality and basically be able to exist outside of somebody else's system. I only see 2 ways out of it starting your own successful business or generating enough capital from a high income career that you can now fund your life purpose. 

Having an unintegrated stage orange shows up in different ways but you can see it clearly in unhealthy stage greens who care deeply about the world and express their pain about its injustice but don't have the resources and capital to do anything about it. A triggered feminist is an easy caricature of it. Whereas on the other hand you have women/men that start their own organizations and become themselves power agents of change in the causes that they champion. 

 

Edited 54 minutes ago by LordFall

[Valach]

3 minutes ago, LordFall said:

Stage orange is about the real world value of our reality and the markets that govern it. If someone watches an anti pollution video and are like wow corporations are bad penguins are dying! They did not just magically integrate stage orange. They started to realize that there are cause and effects in the world and that some corporations tend to use their incentives against the rest of reality.

To integrate and transcend stage orange you have to in charge of your material reality and basically be able to exist outside of somebody else's system. I only see 2 ways out of it starting your own successful business or generating enough capital from a high income career that you can now fund your life purpose. 

Having an unintegrated stage orange shows up in different ways but you can see it clearly in unhealthy stage greens who care deeply about the world and express their pain about its injustice but don't have the resources and capital to do anything about it. A triggered feminist is an easy caricature of it. Whereas on the other hand you have women/men that start their own organizations and become themselves power agents of change in the causes that they champion. 

 

Integrating stage orange is not about being financially independent (in the sense that you do not rely on selling your labor). Go read some material about spiral dynamics or watch Leo's video.

Besides, we were up until now stricly talking about dating related stuff, at no point did we touch work or purpose.

Edited 51 minutes ago by Valach

[LordFall]

4 minutes ago, Valach said:

Integrating stage orange is not about being financially independent (in the sense that you do not rely on selling your labor). Go read some material about spiral dynamics or watch Leo's video.

Besides, we were up until now stricly talking about dating related stuff, at no point did we touch work or purpose.

I have watched all of Leo's videos on it and read part of the spiral dynamics book itself. I think what I said is as simple as you can make it. If you can't operate outside of stage orange then by definition you haven't transcended it. As I said people are multifaceted individuals and it's not because you haven't fully integrated a stage that you don't have some solid concepts integrated from the other stages. You are fundamentally gonna lack power and impact on reality and not be able to really enjoy the fruits of the other stages if you do not though. As I've used in examples you will not be able to impact the stage green causes that you care about. You will not be able to build the stage yellow systems that you can invision.

I'm not saying I've transcended orange. I'm still working on my business each day. It's hard as fuck though I can understand why not everyone does it. It's easier than ever with AI though, you can use it to find the bottlenecks in your cashflow verticals. With AI agents taking care of some of the online labor there is a lot that's unlocking this year. We are very blessed to be alive today. 

[Valach]

1 minute ago, LordFall said:

I have watched all of Leo's videos on it and read part of the spiral dynamics book itself. I think what I said is as simple as you can make it. If you can't operate outside of stage orange then by definition you haven't transcended it. As I said people are multifaceted individuals and it's not because you haven't fully integrated a stage that you don't have some solid concepts integrated from the other stages. You are fundamentally gonna lack power and impact on reality and not be able to really enjoy the fruits of the other stages if you do not though. As I've used in examples you will not be able to impact the stage green causes that you care about. You will not be able to build the stage yellow systems that you can invision.

I'm not saying I've transcended orange. I'm still working on my business each day. It's hard as fuck though I can understand why not everyone does it. It's easier than ever with AI though, you can use it to find the bottlenecks in your cashflow verticals. With AI agents taking care of some of the online labor there is a lot that's unlocking this year. We are very blessed to be alive today. 

What do you mean operating outside of stage orange? You think everyone who has to work for living is inherently not above stage orange? 

[LordFall]

4 minutes ago, Valach said:

What do you mean operating outside of stage orange? You think everyone who has to work for living is inherently not above stage orange? 

Of course not. They can have some cool ideas that are beyond it but they won't be able to do much from it. You can say maybe like the Amish but that's  stage blue. You can stay people in countries that aren't as capitalistic but that's even lower than orange, blue and red. 

Stage orange is the individualistic power stage. If you do not have individualistic power you are not past stage orange. 

The best example are communists. Every communist I meet thinks they're so fucking smart and know more than people that actually have money. First of all they are rarely financially successful. Second of all communism is stage blue. It's ideals are impossible. For example they call for a general workers strike globally to stick it to the bourgeoisie. One problem though, workers of the world can't strike for an extended period of time they don't have the money to! They have to suck it up and go back to work sooner rather than later.

Easy to come up with some cool theory that sounds good in your head and also to the people that have the same angers with reality as you do. Much easier to make it happen and actually transform your life let alone the lives of many people. 

Edited 35 minutes ago by LordFall

[Valach]

As I said, integrating stage orange is about integrating it's values such as competency, individualism, resilience. It is not about getting as much money as possible. Or you think someone like Gabor Mate who had to work his whole life as a psychiatrist never moved past orange? Don't be ridiculous.