Europe Votes This Year

[zurew]

33 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

Even if it's because of social class, religion, trauma etc; what difference does it make

The difference is that you are presumably interested in creating policies that directly targets the most relevant variables that can filter and reduce crime while you can also maintain all the good that you care about and maintain a state of affair that is also aligned with your moral character.

For instance, it would be strange for you to care about not importing crime and reducing crime, and at the same time not care about white criminals or about criminals who has the exact same ethnicity as what you prefer.

Edited 4 hours ago by zurew

[Schizophonia]

4 minutes ago, zurew said:

The difference is that you are presumably interested in creating policies that directly target the most relevant variables that can filter and reduce crime while you can also maintain all the good that you care about.

Yes but what do you intend to do? You have no control over people's social situation, their traumas, religion, etc. However you have complete control over law enforcement, the justice system, and immigration control.

4 minutes ago, zurew said:

For instance, it would be strange for you to care about not importing crime and reducing crime, and at the same time not caring about white criminals or about criminals who has the exact same ethnicity as what you prefer.

I didn't say that crimes committed by white people didn't count, I said that white people were proportionally less represented and that's one of the reasons why people are increasingly opposed to immigration, including the descendants of immigrants.

[zurew]

1 hour ago, Schizophonia said:

Yes but what do you intend to do?

Take a look at studies and data on what policies can most effectively reduce crime and can change criminals and then implement and advocate for those.

1 hour ago, Schizophonia said:

You have no control over people's social situation...

This is generally speaking false,especially if you have a lot of resources to help with.

You can put people in a different environment with different people, with new job and  education opportunities etcetc.

What you should rather say is that you dont think given your values and the avalaible resources that its worth it to spend x amount of resources to help and target y group of people.

1 hour ago, Schizophonia said:

I said that white people were proportionally less represented and that's one of the reasons why people are increasingly opposed to immigration, including the descendants of immigrants.

Yeah but if you are interested in reducing crime , you would spend resources in trying to figure out what explains that disproportional representation and again when it comes to immigration and non-immigration policies you would target the most directly relevant set of variables and not ethnicity and race.

The very idea that you want to categorize criminals based on race and ethnicity when you look at crime seems a strange move in and of itself. If race and ethnicity are not best predictive of criminal behavior then whats the reasoning behind categorizing data based on those variables?

Even if I granted you that you have no control over the things you listed earlier and only over immigration policy , that still doesnt explain the reason why you dont want to filter immigrants based on the most relevant set of variables and why you want to target ethnicity and race.

Edited 2 hours ago by zurew

[Monster Energy]

5 hours ago, WonderSeeker said:

Victor got Orbán-ned.

@Monster Energy Besides Hungary, what are the other countries voting this year?

I'm an American living in Asia, I don't know squat about Europe. Do the polls say immigration is the #1 issue? How about foreign policy and the economy?

Yeah… countries like Sweden, Denmark, Bulgaria, Slovenia, Malta, Cyprus and a few others are heading into elections in 2026. On top of that, you’ve got local and regional votes in places like Germany, France, Italy and the Netherlands.

And yes, immigration is still one of the big ones. Usually sitting right up there with the economy and cost of living. Foreign policy and security? Also very much in the mix, especially anything tied to Ukraine and Russia, depending on where you are in Europe.

 

[Schizophonia]

1 hour ago, zurew said:

Take a look at studies and data on what policies can most effectively reduce crime and can change criminals and then implement and advocate for those.

You can at best improve the situation by making sound political decisions, but again the impact of politics on reality is very limited and importing large numbers of people from poor countries will inevitably increase crime.
Even if you shower all migrants with money, which would be absurd, there are still traumas, religions, and the more primitive collective unconscious/red and blue stagecraft in general.

And while you are perched in your ivory tower issuing postulates and sociological theories without real practical and efficient scope, it is your population that pays the price.

Quote

This is generally speaking false,especially if you have a lot of resources to help with.

You can put people in a different environment with different people, with new job and  education opportunities etcetc.

What you should rather say is that you dont think given your values and the avalaible resources that its worth it to spend x amount of resources to help and target y group of people.

Poland now has significantly lower growth and crime rates than most Western and even Central European countries, which nevertheless have much stronger social policies.

What more needs to be done? Suck the migrant's dick?

Again you talk as if the state were like a city builder like City Skylines where you are basically omnipotent and where everything is more or less privatizable and possible.

Quote

Yeah but if you are interested in reducing crime , you would spend resources in trying to figure out what explains that disproportional representation and again when it comes to immigration and non-immigration policies you would target the most directly relevant set of variables and not ethnicity and race.

The very idea that you want to categorize criminals based on race and ethnicity when you look at crime seems a strange move in and of itself. If race and ethnicity are not best predictive of criminal behavior then whats the reasoning behind categorizing data based on those variables?

Ethnicity is one of the criteria most correlated with the proportion of most crimes.

Quote

Even if I granted you that you have no control over the things you listed earlier and only over immigration policy , that still doesnt explain the reason why you dont want to filter immigrants based on the most relevant set of variables and why you want to target ethnicity and race.

I never said that you just made it up.

I said that most of the crimes were committed by non-whites, which tacitly means by migrants or descendants of migrants since European countries are basically exclusively white at the beggining.

Probably because well immigration has been massive and uncontrolled for decades.

White people 2000 years ago lived in warrior tribes who decapitated their enemies before turning their skulls into soup bowls lol; so even if it would not pose a problem of ethnic replacement, it is not certain that if there were a trans-temporal portal modern Europeans would accept an immigration of Europeans from antiquity and the Middle Ages, for the same reasons or worse.

Edited 1 hour ago by Schizophonia

[enchanted]

9 hours ago, Monster Energy said:

Without Lies Islam Dies 

Yes Islam is a horrible religion (aren't they all?) but it won't die. in fact it is growing. This is because they have way more kids than non Muslims. I know it's not politically correct to say but a huge benefit having strict female roles in a group (aka surpession) is a higher birthrate.

Also a strict religion maintains cohesiveness and social order, and retains members. Contrast that with secular society where loniness, suicide, depression, anxiety, and disenfranchisment is rampant. Further reasons why Islam will never die.

Like seriously what do secular societyies have to offer? Other than staring at a screen all day, materialism, and consumerism? Tradition, community, customs, weekly gatherings - basically everything that makes us human - have no import in secularism while revered by religious societies. 

Edited 1 hour ago by enchanted

[zurew]

1 hour ago, Schizophonia said:

Ethnicity is one of the criteria most correlated with the proportion of most crimes.

But why be this strangely obsessive on that particular one when you have a bunch of more predictive ones like age ,  prior offending history, socioeconomic status,sex  ?

1 hour ago, Schizophonia said:

You can at best improve the situation by making sound political decisions, but again the impact of politics on reality is very limited and importing large numbers of people from poor countries will inevitably increase crime.

Can you show me papers that supports your claim about there being an inevitable and necessary increase in crime ? (im asking for showing a per capita increase in crime  -related to most European countries that are targeted by immigration)

1 hour ago, Schizophonia said:

Even if you shower all migrants with money, which would be absurd, there are still traumas, religions, and the more primitive collective unconscious/red and blue stagecraft in general.

And while you are perched in your ivory tower issuing postulates and sociological theories without real practical and efficient scope, it is your population that pays the price.

The thing you are responding to  there wasnt a reply in light of immigration that was specifically for answering what I would do about crime irrespective of immigration.

But look, when it comes to immigration  - you can be against immigration without obsessing over race and ethnicity.

1 hour ago, Schizophonia said:

I never said that you just made it up.

My bad, I inferred that.

1 hour ago, Schizophonia said:

I said that most of the crimes were committed by non-whites,

Yeah, which again is a strange thing to pick out and to focus on when you have a bunch of other more predictive alternative variables.

You would rather say non-whites over a much more predictive configuration of facts like -  poor, uneducated, past offending , young man.

Edited 33 minutes ago by zurew

[Schizophonia]

24 minutes ago, zurew said:

But why be this strangely obsessive on that particular one when you have a bunch of more predictive ones like age ,  prior offending history, socioeconomic status,sex  ?

Crimes are primarily committed by young, poor men.

You can't expel all men and/or young people, and you can't magically eliminate poverty.

However you can limit immigration, another key factor in crime.
It's a question of what's possible.

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Can you show me papers that supports your claim about there being an inevitable and necessary increase in crime ? (im asking for showing a per capita increase in crime  -related to most European countries that are targeted by immigration)

In every European country, non-Europeans or people of European descent are overrepresented.

And everywhere crime particularly sexual crime has exploded in correlation with immigration.

Again you can't take every migrant and shower them with money before hypnotizing them on LSD to suppress their potential misogynistic and selfish unconscious.

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The thing you are responding to  there wasnt a reply in light of immigration that was specifically for answering what I would do about crime irrespective of immigration.

But look, when it comes to immigration  - you can be against immigration without obsessing over race and ethnicity.

I'm not obsessed with ethnicity that's just in your imagination.

Quote

My bad, I inferred that.

Yeah, which again is a strange thing to pick out and to focus on when you have a bunch of other more predictive alternative variables.

You would rather say non-whites over a much more predictive configuration of facts like -  poor, uneducated, past offending , young man.

It's what i say since the beginning.

Edited 18 minutes ago by Schizophonia