The dumbest collective shit test

[WonderSeeker]

19 hours ago, Jirh said:

@LordFall No, I genuinely just don't feel the romantic spark until I'm close and intimate with the girl (requires knowing her on a soul level), and by necessity that doesn't happen instantly. It happens with time and proximity. Deep feelings develop over time. That's just how it worked for me. I'm attracted to authenticity and vulnerability. Pickup, small talk, and one night stand offer neither.

I tired pickup but didn't have much success with it. It doesn't feel compatible with my biology. Like I'm forcing something to happen that shouldn't. Even if a girl approached me (and it happened before I even tried pickup), I couldn't operate under that paradigm.

I'm the same way. Ever heard of demi-sexuality?

9 hours ago, Jirh said:

This isn't necessarily directed at anyone, but I can't help but feel like casual dating is closer to video gaming than living the real life.

You can be the best gamer in the world and make tons of money out of it, but you will still be lonely and isolated, living from behind a screen, hiding away from people and reality.

I mean if you're doing it right, I'd imagine, ideally, at some point you should meet someone that stands out and want to repeat the experience with them and take it to the next level, and create with them an environment where your offspring can grow.

But no, that's not the objective. The objective is some sort of ego stroking and ticking off a checklist. It's not the actual experience that's desired. It's jumping from one experience to another.

Or maybe someone truly stands out for you, but it's not allowed to exist under the casual paradigm. So you just ignore them.

And all of that assumes healthy psychology without avoidant tendencies, btw. I would guess most people who date casually are ultimately just afraid to share their authentic self and risk being vulnerable. Casual dating doesn't require you to take off your shield. Taking off your clothes is enough.

And lastly, I cannot fathom how that can be done without objectifying the other person. I would imagine you'd have to treat people as temporary objects for your pleasure, without actually caring about theirs. This automatically rules out the possibility of care entirely. It becomes more mechanical than natural. More like a performance than reality.

It just doesn't compute for me.

When it comes to casual — which isn't my favorite form of intimacy, but I've still engaged in recently — you can get yourself into an emotional state where you are passionate about the other person. But at the end of the day, it isn't 100% true and you don't take it serious enough.

It is true that you're treating them as temporary objects for your pleasure. As long as the other person agrees to it and you aren't manipulating them (fine line, I know), then it's not necessarily bad. But still...

Authenticity, depth, loyalty, and mutual understanding are,  and will always be top. Body count is vanity.

[LordFall]

11 hours ago, Jirh said:

This isn't necessarily directed at anyone, but I can't help but feel like casual dating is closer to video gaming than living the real life.

You can be the best gamer in the world and make tons of money out of it, but you will still be lonely and isolated, living from behind a screen, hiding away from people and reality.

I mean if you're doing it right, I'd imagine, ideally, at some point you should meet someone that stands out and want to repeat the experience with them and take it to the next level, and create with them an environment where your offspring can grow.

But no, that's not the objective. The objective is some sort of ego stroking and ticking off a checklist. It's not the actual experience that's desired. It's jumping from one experience to another.

Or maybe someone truly stands out for you, but it's not allowed to exist under the casual paradigm. So you just ignore them.

And all of that assumes healthy psychology without avoidant tendencies, btw. I would guess most people who date casually are ultimately just afraid to share their authentic self and risk being vulnerable. Casual dating doesn't require you to take off your shield. Taking off your clothes is enough.

And lastly, I cannot fathom how that can be done without objectifying the other person. I would imagine you'd have to treat people as temporary objects for your pleasure, without actually caring about theirs. This automatically rules out the possibility of care entirely. It becomes more mechanical than natural. More like a performance than reality.

It just doesn't compute for me.

Sure part of what you're saying is correct. It's also a limited perspective. I would argue that a lot of people that a lot of people that rush into monogamous relationships objectify their partners as a stability object and a lot of those relationships turn toxic after the honeymoon phase ends and the reality of the human being that you've entangled yourself with becomes apparent. 

Personally I'm still exploring my authentic self and casual dating has allowed me to find layers of that. So has my monogamous relationships in the past. You're making a lot of false assumptions with casual dating so allow me to make an assumption on you; do you lack a lot of experience in this field and using assumptions to shield you from the discomfort of it? 

Why do you assume casual sex comes without caring about the other person's pleasure? It's really fun to give orgasms to people you hookup with and have honest pillow talk with them afterwards. I tend to find it leads to a lot of vulnerability and talking about stuff honestly that I wouldn't be comfortable talking about with people in my day to day life. Perhaps some people are 100% honest and vulnerable with their friends and family but that's not what I observe with people as a whole. 

There's also the radical vulnerability that comes from the self-improvement part of cold approach. It's an incredibly tough thing to go up to a woman you find attractive on the street and try to seduce her. Not only you have to initially look attractive enough that her initial reaction is not wtf get away from me. Then you have to have pretty good conversation skills to make a cool conversation happen out of nowhere knowing nothing about her. Then you have to be able to read body language and facial expressions to make sure she's enjoying the conversation enough to want to see you again. Then you have to understand logistics and escalation enough to turn that into a date and ultimately sex.

I think it's very obvious that most people will dismiss this process outright and call it unspiritual and materialistic instead of admitting that it shatters most of the paradigms they're comfortable with and that they're rather unskilled in most of these areas. Which to me requires true respect for yourself and a refusal to settle for mediocrity. Which apparently looking at stats 60% of men today settle for. 

To come back to your point once again you aren't wrong about all this can still be done without solving the trauma that would lead one to having an avoidant attachment style. I still think it's a separate issue. Most men cannot attract the women they are truly attracted to and settle for mediocre relationships. That's obviously not everyone but I see it all the time. I had a client that I did a photoshoot with and he hated the dating process and ended up dating this obese girl with bpd and he would send me pictures of her trying to talk about how hot she was and he just likes curvy women. I don't judge if you're in a relationship fuck it go for it champ but then it turned massively volatile as you would expect out of someone with BPD but once again it's a very common pattern. 

Ultimately your life is your own in this thread I've mostly called out the beliefs that to me seem silly and not based in reality. I've been on this journey since I was 19 years old and for my personally it stems from being mostly an incel in my teens that wasn't able to pursue the girls that in hindsight gave me signs of being attracted to me. Not everyone is gonna have the same baggage. It turned to a quest in exploration into social dynamics and human sexuality that I would consider the complete opposite of shallow. If you're not interested in that journey then I mean great. I think there is almost infinite growth from pursuing deeply the fields that the average person does deem as shallow i.e. dating and money. I think that's particularly why people are so scared of them because they are central to our existence in today's age. 

@Schizophonia What does being demonic to you entail? Seems to me like you're throwing that word around lightly; feel free to expand on your thoughts around it. 

7 hours ago, Sugarcoat said:

Theres an entire porn industry with women being exploited, aggressive addictive stuff etc. Have you considered some of those men with power in those industries and how they are as people?

But you're instead focused on some natural looking young woman making money by willingly choosing to show her body online, by herself and sometimes together with her female friends. Calling her "demonic" 

 

Really, zoom out a little from that perspective and look at the world at large. And this is not just directed at you 

 

I agree the porn industry is much more exploitative than onlyfans. It's such an interesting phenomenon and it's obvious why it's so shocking to the world. It's perhaps mostly exploitative to the men that get hooked on it but also I don't even know if I agree with that sentiment. It's agency as it's purest form. There is plenty of resources out there for men to learn to date and have sex for women if they desire to do so. I know onlyfans women that I paid to subscribe to and I'm quite happy with my purchase. 

I think the economy is a very complex thing and if some women want to get paid for their sexuality then more power to them. As I've explained above its very predictable that this concept would shock some people as it's basically stage orange clashing with stage blue. Seems like low consciousness to me though. 

@WonderSeeker If that identity suits you I mean more power to you. I merely deconstructed the causes of it and the "solution" if you seek to experience sexuality a different way. I'm a big believer in being in control of most of the facets of your personality and that most humans are quite repressed and especially in everything related to sexuality.

Allow me to psychoanalyze you but it seems from the original post that you're a bit offended by the concept of bodycount so perhaps yours is low and you don't like that fact? Although deconstructing the concept of bodycount in and of itself is completely valid. 

Edited 4 hours ago by LordFall

[Schizophonia]

9 minutes ago, LordFall said:

 

@Schizophonia What does being demonic to you entail? Seems to me like you're throwing that word around lightly; feel free to expand on your thoughts around it. 

Because she is in a frequency that tends towards sociopathy and to be shallow in general; that is what she energetically promotes.

[LordFall]

26 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

Because she is in a frequency that tends towards sociopathy and to be shallow in general; that is what she energetically promotes.

How so? To me she promotes good vibes and freedom. I feel much better each time I watch one of her clips on Instagram. She has a muse type of frequency to me and similarly I feel invigorated and motivated when I see happy hot women especially when they are dancing and having a good time. 

If you are closed off to the abundant energy of the feminine that to me points to a scarcity mindset most likely stemming from the sour grapes phenomenon.

When is the last time that you came inside or on a beautiful woman? If the answer to that is never or too long for factors outside of your control then of course you're gonna hate beautiful women flaunting their sexuality. It's gonna feel like the universe personally insulting you.

I feel like that sometimes. And then I get better and work on myself and work towards said act of love with a beautiful woman and when it happens I feel like life is great and I thank God for being alive. 

Edited 3 hours ago by LordFall

[integral]

16 minutes ago, LordFall said:

To me she promotes good vibes and freedom.

From your perspective she's being authentic?

[integral]

 

[LordFall]

She found a gap in the market and travels the world with her friends, shooting content and having a good time. I think it's what most people aspire to do but can't and that's why they're mad at her. 

 

[Schizophonia]

14 minutes ago, LordFall said:

How so? To me she promotes good vibes and freedom. I feel much better each time I watch one of her clips on Instagram. She has a muse type of frequency to me and similarly I feel invigorated and motivated when I see happy hot women especially when they are dancing and having a good time. 
 

I see.

14 minutes ago, LordFall said:

If you are closed off to the abundant energy of the feminine that to me points to a scarcity mindset most likely stemming from the sour grapes phenomenon.

It's not feminine energy I was targeting, but the fact that she makes her money through OF and what appears to be cynicism.

14 minutes ago, LordFall said:

 

When is the last time that you came inside or on a beautiful woman?

I've only ever had paid relationships, largely due to severe insomnia and relationship problems. I don't have much trouble being attractive in general, but I also lack willpower. I generally have a pretty empty, rigid vibe.

14 minutes ago, LordFall said:

If the answer to that is never or too long for factors outside of your control then of course you're gonna hate beautiful women flaunting their sexuality. It's gonna feel like the universe personally insulting you.

I feel like that sometimes. And then I get better and work on myself and work towards said act of love with a beautiful woman and when it happens I feel like life is great and I thank God for being alive. 

I understand.

But in this case, it's the "red stage" that bothers me. I know it's the projective mechanism, because it's not integration. I'm the first to talk about the mirror effect.

[LordFall]

1 minute ago, Schizophonia said:

I see.

It's not feminine energy I was targeting, but the fact that she makes her money through OF and what appears to be cynicism.

I've only ever had paid relationships, largely due to severe insomnia and relationship problems. I don't have much trouble being attractive in general, but I also lack willpower. I generally have a pretty empty, rigid vibe.

I understand.

But in this case, it's the "red stage" that bothers me. I know it's the projective mechanism, because it's not integration. I'm the first to talk about the mirror effect.

Have you tried doing cold approach? What about other activities that get you out of your shell like improv and dance? What about your fitness? I don't know anything about insomnia apart from it has to be linked to neuroticism but willpower and relationship problems are my forte. 

You control your own will, you decide to activate it or not. If you don't then you're gonna underperform in relationships for sure and then a multimillionaire hottie it's gonna trigger the fuck out of you for sure. 

I don't think she embodies even 1 characteristic from stage red. Stage orange sure. She's also stage green, she donated $1M to the water donation project organized by MrBeast and also donated to families for SNAP when the trumpster caused the government shutdown. 

[integral]

15 minutes ago, LordFall said:

She found a gap in the market and travels the world with her friends, shooting content and having a good time. I think it's what most people aspire to do but can't and that's why they're mad at her. 

Trump corrupted his way to the presidency am I supposed to be jealous of his success? 

lol

I wish I had his status and lifestyle and power and that's why I'm criticizing him?

Edited 3 hours ago by integral

[LordFall]

Well first of all that's a false equivalency and comparing the degrees of corruption of Sophie Rain and trump is not intellectually honest.

Second regardless it's victim mindset. If you choose to not be in the public arena and not influence people as you have proudly stated and then spend time nitpicking their actions then once that seems like silly behaviour to me. 

We can also deconstruct where each criticism is coming from, all criticism is not created equal. She's not gonna read this so it's not really even criticism it's more like venting. 

[Schizophonia]

7 minutes ago, LordFall said:

Have you tried doing cold approach?

I did some time but it didn’t work

7 minutes ago, LordFall said:

What about other activities that get you out of your shell like improv and dance?

Yes I lack that, and yes it's my fault.

7 minutes ago, LordFall said:

What about your fitness?

I’m decently fit

7 minutes ago, LordFall said:

I don't know anything about insomnia apart from it has to be linked to neuroticism

Yes lol

7 minutes ago, LordFall said:

but willpower and relationship problems are my forte. 
 

Good 👍 

7 minutes ago, LordFall said:

You control your own will, you decide to activate it or not. If you don't then you're gonna underperform in relationships for sure and then a multimillionaire hottie it's gonna trigger the fuck out of you for sure. 

I don't think she embodies even 1 characteristic from stage red. Stage orange sure. She's also stage green, she donated $1M to the water donation project organized by MrBeast and also donated to families for SNAP when the trumpster caused the government shutdown. 

 

[LordFall]

@Schizophonia You seem open to feedback, that's mostly what it takes to build a great dating and carreer/business life in my experience. It's not a big deal to have only had experiences with sex workers at this point in life. That's how I started myself. I lost my virginity at 18 to a beautiful lady of the night named Sonia, it was an incredible 90 seconds. 

I got my first girlfriend volunteering at a comic expo in my city. The good thing about cold approach is it loosens you up and makes you more social by default so you don't even have to get a girlfriend from it, it'll make you more attractive to women in general. 

What city are you in? If you're in a big one there are pickup groups in most of them. Going out with other people is the best way to learn by osmosis from them in my experience. Humans learn collectively through our mirror neurons. If you just watch videos online and read the forum and try to do it by yourself that's nightmare difficulty.

I would also build a social circle out of it. That's the number 1 medium to long term hack towards building social capital. It's also something that you can keep doing even when you get into a relationship to build an aligned group towards mutual goal that will ultimately gain you influence in your city and the world at large if you combine it with social media. 

You also learn much more from orchestrating your own social environment rather than existing in someone else's. It's also more beneficial to you because most systems exist to benefit those at the top rather than the main participant. I knew a club owner in Toronto that used the official instagram page with 30k followers to DM girls to invite them to his free booth and he had free bottles and liquor which cost other dudes paying for it thousands and the average dudes coming into the club to buy drinks and talk to the girls would just fit the bill for the whole venue. You can build yours in a win-win way but you'll still benefit most from being the leader and thus having the highest status and authority in the group. 

Beautiful thing is it works with any hobby. You could easily get laid from starting a Pokemon Card group if that's your passion or really about anything. The world has integrated in this past decade and that didn't used to be the case. I dropped out of high school playing league of legends competitively and now kids these days have collegiate esports teams, wadafak. 

Edited 2 hours ago by LordFall

[integral]

@Schizophonia  are you struggling that you're not getting the social life that you want?

[integral]

1 hour ago, LordFall said:

Well first of all that's a false equivalency and comparing the degrees of corruption of Sophie Rain and trump is not intellectually honest.

Second regardless it's victim mindset. If you choose to not be in the public arena and not influence people as you have proudly stated and then spend time nitpicking their actions then once that seems like silly behaviour to me. 

Criticism that doesn't serve your achievement is victim mindset / self-limiting.

Im basically limiting myself and preventing myself from achieving. Okay so this is all mindset oriented and real criticism of other people can't happen because that doesn't help you achieve your goals in life.

So you have a self development frame and everything has to be productive towards it, or else it's self-defeating and limiting and prevents Personal Achievement.

Am I getting this right?

So if my values are integrity and a higher vision for society, criticizing people who lack those is forbidden because it won't make me rich?

and then when I see people who aren't like this like Sophia rain and Trump. It is then a victim mindset criticizing them because that will prevent me from achieving millions of dollars and the lifestyle you are certain I want which is of course traveling and having sex with a bunch of women.

Edited 2 hours ago by integral

[Schizophonia]

50 minutes ago, LordFall said:

@Schizophonia You seem open to feedback, that's mostly what it takes to build a great dating and carreer/business life in my experience.
 

Build a life in general eheh

50 minutes ago, LordFall said:

It's not a big deal to have only had experiences with sex workers at this point in life. That's how I started myself. I lost my virginity at 18 to a beautiful lady of the night named Sonia, it was an incredible 90 seconds. 
 

It was very empty and has each time regretted for my wallet 

50 minutes ago, LordFall said:

I got my first girlfriend volunteering at a comic expo in my city. The good thing about cold approach is it loosens you up and makes you more social by default so you don't even have to get a girlfriend from it, it'll make you more attractive to women in general. 

What city are you in?

Toulouse

I saw you speak French on your instagram btw eheh

50 minutes ago, LordFall said:

If you're in a big one there are pickup groups in most of them.
 

Not in mine 😹

Maybe it’s different in US; here it’s still globally something seen as strange.

I've already suggested it to friends, among other activities, to "motivate each other," but they're even less motivated than I am.

50 minutes ago, LordFall said:

Going out with other people is the best way to learn by osmosis from them in my experience. Humans learn collectively through our mirror neurons.

We learn from experience anyway

50 minutes ago, LordFall said:

If you just watch videos online and read the forum and try to do it by yourself that's nightmare difficulty.

I would also build a social circle out of it. That's the number 1 medium to long term hack towards building social capital. It's also something that you can keep doing even when you get into a relationship to build an aligned group towards mutual goal that will ultimately gain you influence in your city and the world at large if you combine it with social media. 
 

It’s true 👍 

 

50 minutes ago, LordFall said:

You also learn much more from orchestrating your own social environment rather than existing in someone else's. It's also more beneficial to you because most systems exist to benefit those at the top rather than the main participant. I knew a club owner in Toronto that used the official instagram page with 30k followers to DM girls to invite them to his free booth and he had free bottles and liquor which cost other dudes paying for it thousands and the average dudes coming into the club to buy drinks and talk to the girls would just fit the bill for the whole venue. You can build yours in a win-win way but you'll still benefit most from being the leader and thus having the highest status and authority in the group. 

Beautiful thing is it works with any hobby. You could easily get laid from starting a Pokemon Card group if that's your passion or really about anything. The world has integrated in this past decade and that didn't used to be the case. I dropped out of high school playing league of legends competitively and now kids these days have collegiate esports teams, wadafak. 

It’s super cool; it’s true I saw you play to Lol on your instagram.

I don't understand why a girl would want to have sex with someone, especially with me; it doesn't make sense, I'm not a god, I'm just a random guy, I don't see why someone would want to suck me etc outside of coercion, I don't see the point.

It's a bit neurotic, I wouldn't say I rationally believe it if it makes sense, but it's the idea I come across when I search my subconscious.

[Schizophonia]

35 minutes ago, integral said:

@Schizophonia  are you struggling that you're not getting the social life that you want?

I'm used to it

[integral]

Just now, Schizophonia said:

I'm used to it

What social life do you want?

[Schizophonia]

3 minutes ago, integral said:

What social life do you want?

I don’t know 

Edited 1 hour ago by Schizophonia

[integral]

6 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

I don’t know 

Are you doing any self development work?