How did the ( Illusion ) the sense of separation start?

[Mellowmarsh]

By categorising the world into subjects ("I") and objects ("everything else"), we create a fundamental duality. This subject-object split fragments our perception, causing us to view ourselves as isolated observers navigating a separate universe, rather than an integral part of it. 

The illusion ends as and through thought-free silence. 

The real and true is what’s left, just this simple unclaimed absolute complete uninterrupted peace of God’s open secret hidden in plain sight. Always here and never not here. 

[Someone here]

It occurs In the brain . Newborns are conscious but they are not “self-conscious “. The sense of I arises in the brain around 4 years old to help the organism survive .

[Mellowmarsh]

6 minutes ago, Someone here said:

It occurs In the brain . Newborns are conscious but they are not “self-conscious “. The sense of I arises in the brain around 4 years old to help the organism survive .

Yes indeed, how wonderful. 🤗 

[Mellowmarsh]

It’s like having the best of both worlds. Like "living in two worlds" referring to the simultaneous experience of the tangible, physical realm and the unseen, spiritual dimension. It represents the balance between navigating daily earthly responsibilities and maintaining a deep, intuitive connection with higher consciousness.

 

 

[Breakingthewall]

It happens when you fall and hit your head on a rock. Your system identifies: rock, me, pain. It's not an illusion, it's reality.

[Mellowmarsh]

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

It happens when you fall and hit your head on a rock. Your system identifies: rock, me, pain. It's not an illusion, it's reality.

The separation is a real illusion.

 "An illusion shared by everyone becomes a reality." 

[Breakingthewall]

20 minutes ago, Mellowmarsh said:

The separation is a real illusion.

 "An illusion shared by everyone becomes a reality." 

You don't need that anyone tells you, if I hit my head with a rock you don't feel pain, but if it's your head yes. Then your head is separate from my head, and the rock is separate from both. Where is the mystery?

[Grateful Dead]

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

You don't need that anyone tells you, if I hit my head with a rock you don't feel pain, but if it's your head yes. Then your head is separate from my head, and the rock is separate from both. Where is the mystery?

So, if a stone falls on your head in a dream tonight and you feel pain, does that prove that the stone in the dream is truly separate from your body in the dream?

If you don't like the dream analogy, you can instead turn to quantum physics. From that perspective, the universe is a single, invisible underlying fabric. Within it, a head and a stone are not isolated objects, but merely local nodes - condensations within this continuous medium. In this context, your pain is simply the collision of these nodes. And your brain, in this sense, acts as a receiver that filters the data. Thus, within this framework, separation is not a factual reality, but rather a filtering function of your nervous system, one that screens out this shared reality in the course of everyday life.

Edited 3 hours ago by Grateful Dead

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Grateful Dead said:

So, if a stone falls on your head in a dream tonight and you feel pain, does that prove that the stone in the dream is truly separate from your body in the dream?

No, it proves that if was a dream created by your brain. The proof is that next day there is not any hurt. I could imagine a stone now and it's different than the creation of the brain when the information of a real stone is transmitted by the eye, it's another level of representation

When you dream a stone it's because you have seen real stones , then the brain remember them. If you were blind from birth you couldn't dream stones

I know that spirituality denies the reality, but it doesn't make sense. It's like being a believer I in flat earth, just scapism . You don't need to invent a parallel reality only for "awoken", the reality is real enough 

Edited 3 hours ago by Breakingthewall

[Mellowmarsh]

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

You don't need that anyone tells you, if I hit my head with a rock you don't feel pain, but if it's your head yes. Then your head is separate from my head, and the rock is separate from both. Where is the mystery?

Of course separation exists, in the relative sense, yes. But in the absolute sense, the source of every relative thing is seen as oneness.

Of course, in our day-to-day physical reality, separation is very real and necessary. Without it, the universe could not function. That’s not being denied. 

The hand is separate from the heart, the heart pumps blood, not the hand. Both the heart and hand are different parts of the same singular body. That’s all that’s being pointed to.

From a universal or non-dual perspective, all boundaries are ultimately illusions constructed by the human mind. Everything in existence is seen as an interconnected whole. Just as your hand and foot are different parts of the same body, so are all things viewed as parts of a singular existence. 

If you don’t like what the word ( illusion) is pointing to in this subject topic, then that’s fine by me. Also, the word illusion has many interpretations. So it’s a useful word when used in the correct context, of course. Make up your own mind about these things, I’m not here to doubt anything you think about these things, think what you like, I do.
 

[Breakingthewall]

4 hours ago, Someone here said:

It occurs In the brain . Newborns are conscious but they are not “self-conscious “. The sense of I arises in the brain around 4 years old to help the organism survive .

A clearly defined sense of self appears at around 18 months of age, or at least this is the point at which a child typically passes the mirror test. If you place a mark on their nose and show them a mirror, they do not touch the mirror; they touch their own nose.

Other animals that have also passed the mirror test include dolphins, elephants, great apes, crows, and some small fish. Other animals do not pass the test, but that does not necessarily mean they lack a sense of self. It may simply mean that they do not understand their visual reflection.
A pig, for example, does not pass the mirror test, yet when it is about to be slaughtered it appears to know exactly what is happening and may react with extreme distress.

Any being that interacts with the external world and possesses sensory organs has some form of selfhood, however basic. At its most fundamental level, it is simply: "I am."

[Breakingthewall]

7 minutes ago, Mellowmarsh said:

From a universal or non-dual perspective, all boundaries are ultimately illusions constructed by the human mind

 the mind only represent the reality, don't create illusions. Create representations. The separation is absolutely real. You could say that ultimately everything is the reality manifested in a form, but you are a form that self preserves and that is  separated of others, even all are interconnected. Saying that the self is not real, that reality is a dream and those ideas only leads to mental isolation and closeness 

[Grateful Dead]

12 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

No, it proves that if was a dream created by your brain. The proof is that next day there is not any hurt. I could imagine a stone now and it's different than the creation of the brain when the information of a real stone is transmitted by the eye, it's another level of representation

When you dream a stone it's because you have seen real stones , then the brain remember them. If you were blind from birth you couldn't dream stones

I know that spirituality denies the reality, but it doesn't make sense. It's like being a believer I in flat earth, just scapism 

Yes, but what you are overlooking is the fundamental reality of what the stone truly is. If we turn again to quantum physics, we see that the stone, the light, and your eye are not separate entities. They are all entanglements within a single quantum field. The transmission of information, then, is simply the way this unified field interacts with itself, what I refer to as "dreaming."

The brain has evolved to filter these signals, enabling you to navigate your daily life. Whether it is a dream constructed from memories or your everyday reality created by sensory input, the perception of distinct, solid objects is always a filtering function of your nervous system. At the fundamental level, there is no boundary between the stone and the eye. So even quantum physics denies that reality. 

From my perspective, it is the exact opposite of escapism. It means that everything is connected, and if you throw a stone at someone else's head, you are doing it to yourself, even if you don't physically feel the pain.

[Mellowmarsh]

1 minute ago, Breakingthewall said:

 the mind only represent the reality, don't create illusions. Create representations. The separation is absolutely real. You could say that ultimately everything is the reality manifested in a form, but you are a form that self preserves and that is  separated of others, even all are interconnected. Saying that the self is not real, that reality is a dream and those ideas only leads to mental isolation and closeness 

But that’s just your opinion, it’s how you see it there. If it’s mental isolation and closedness,  that’s all your projection there, not anyone else’s, at least not mine here.
 

I don’t see any mental isolation or closedness when I think about oneness, I see open boundless infinite vastness, quite the opposite of isolation in fact. But don’t take my word for it, think this through for yourself, see what you want to see. 
 

For me, the way I perceive reality to be, is that it always presents itself as an absolute presentation, not as a representation. 
A representation would be a false reality, because reality is only ever being itself from moment to moment uninterrupted, it’s never being here on behalf of something else separated from itself, which to me means being represented by a separate entity. Now that to me would be a very limited reality, because entities don’t last forever, they appear and disappear in what is ultimately always this seamless presentation we call reality. 

[Joseph Maynor]

You created it.

[Mellowmarsh]

4 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

You created it.

Obviously.

[Mellowmarsh]

49 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

I know that spirituality denies the reality, but it doesn't make sense. It's like being a believer I in flat earth, just scapism . You don't need to invent a parallel reality only for "awoken", the reality is real enough 

Since when has spirituality ever denied reality? When you said it does? Okay then, it’s only a matter of language.
 

Let’s Feel the difference:

1: “I am sights, sounds, movement” implies “I am the world.”

2: “There are only sights, sounds, movement” implies there is only the world.
 

This is unity, And it is already there.

It’s not necessary to add a superfluous ( I ) to what’s already T/here. 

 

 

 

[Joseph Maynor]

17 minutes ago, Mellowmarsh said:

Obviously.

You think creation happens, but you don't see yourself as a creator.  

[enchanted]

You can't answer this question with words because words themselves are a result of a paradigm where things are distinct in the world. 

[Sugarcoat]

6 hours ago, Mellowmarsh said:

By categorising the world into subjects ("I") and objects ("everything else"), we create a fundamental duality.

Ive heard this thing before where people say that it's the labelling creating the identity and I dont agree. It's not like a child starts feeling like they exist because the parent says their name and refers to them as someone. If it were that way, then it would be like a very weak self that would be easy to breakthrough and more people would be enlightened lol. The labeling can't cause this entire sense of being here separate from the world over there, the labels are not that powerful. 

Edited 2 hours ago by Sugarcoat