How did the ( Illusion ) the sense of separation start?

[Osaid]

On 6/30/2026 at 4:40 PM, Breakingthewall said:

"Worrying" It's a function of the predictive mind that energizes the choice of possibilities. If it weren't, you wouldn't care whether you stored food for winter or not, and your whole family would starve.

You can definitely care without worrying. I wouldn't even say they are the same thing. You can pick an item from a restaurant menu, I don't think that is worrying.

On 6/30/2026 at 4:40 PM, Breakingthewall said:

Evolutionarily, worrying about the future has been rewarded because it was more effective than not doing so.

That is not true. It is a misunderstanding. There is no benefit to believing you will experience the future because no one experiences it. The benefit is still part of the belief.

In fact, there are even tribes which do not include the concept of the future in their language.

Edited 11 hours ago by Osaid

[Joseph Maynor]

51 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

There is no other way to have a reality without this distinction. .  

 

I agree.  But this is anathema to a lot of spiritual people it seems.

[Sugarcoat]

4 hours ago, Osaid said:

Lol. After a while they will have to start thinking differently. Like when they observe quantum mechanics. 

I actually think all the "crazy non-dual stuff" will be quite normal later on in science.

Yea and it's logical too. When I was younger I thought of how if you draw a line in the middle of a paper, you could say the line is the boundary between the two halves, but then if you zoom in on the line, its broader so then the middle of it, is the boundary. And you can keep going forever, zooming in more and more, so I thought how it doesn't make sense there could be separation because where would exact boundary be. And that was just on logic level for me as I said. 

[Osaid]

12 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

Yea and it's logical too. When I was younger I thought of how if you draw a line in the middle of a paper, you could say the line is the boundary between the two halves, but then if you zoom in on the line, its broader so then the middle of it, is the boundary. And you can keep going forever, zooming in more and more, so I thought how it doesn't make sense there could be separation because where would exact boundary be. And that was just on logic level for me as I said. 

It's amazing because I came up with the exact same visual analogy, except I never thought about zooming into the middle line. That's creative.

The way I saw it, is that it initially seems there are "two halves", but in truth each half is defined by the exact same middle boundary. So there aren't actually two halves independent from each other, they are both created by the same line. When you take the middle line away, both halves vanish, because they are a product of the same line.

This is actually exactly how thought (the illusion of multiplicity) works. For example, "up" never exists without "down", and vice versa. 

Edited 6 hours ago by Osaid

[Mellowmarsh]

5 hours ago, Osaid said:

In fact, there are even tribes which do not include the concept of the future in their language.

The future never happens. Looking, I can only reflect on what’s already happened creating the illusion of a past that I pull back into the ever present of existence. 

[Osaid]

4 minutes ago, Mellowmarsh said:

The future never happens. Looking, I can only reflect on what’s already happened creating the illusion of a past that I pull back into the ever present of existence.

Yeah, the past projects itself into the future.

"I experienced this, and so I will experience it again later".

"I have a meeting scheduled for 6pm tomorrow, so I will experience a meeting tomorrow".

The present thought "connects" the timeline together, so that you may perceive it and think about it.

You can logically go through this as well. Without the present moment, you can't conceive of a future or a past. Time is a concept that depends on the existence of the present. Without the present, there is no perceivable timeline at all.

[Mellowmarsh]

3 minutes ago, Osaid said:

Yeah, the past projects itself into the future.

"I experienced this, and so I will experience it again later".

"I have a meeting scheduled for 6pm tomorrow, so I will experience a meeting tomorrow".

The present thought "connects" the timeline together, so that you may perceive it and think about it.

You can logically go through this as well. Without the present moment, you can't conceive of a future or a past. Time is a concept that depends on the existence of the present. Without the present, there is no perceivable timeline at all.

Well said. 

[VeganAwake]

Nonduality isn't saying that there isn't apparent separation between physical objects like, humans, trees, and rocks. 

It's referring to the internal self illusions which seem to suffer psychologically.

That which seems to suffer when it's called an ass hole or that which seems to suffer when it believes it's not good enough.

There are not 2 of these, there's not even 1

Edited 5 hours ago by VeganAwake

[Mellowmarsh]

4 minutes ago, VeganAwake said:

Nonduality isn't saying that there isn't apparent separation between physical objects like, humans, trees, and rocks. 

It's referring to the internal self illusions which seem to suffer psychologically.

That which seems to suffer when it's called an ass hole or that which seems to suffer when it believes it's not good enough.

There are not 2 of these, there's not even 1

Nicely put.

0 with a plot twist ♾️ 

[Mellowmarsh]

Solipsism never denies the existence of an external world it’s completely contingent upon its existence.

[Sugarcoat]

2 hours ago, Osaid said:

It's amazing because I came up with the exact same visual analogy, except I never thought about zooming into the middle line. That's creative.

The way I saw it, is that it initially seems there are "two halves", but in truth each half is defined by the exact same middle boundary. So there aren't actually two halves independent from each other, they are both created by the same line. When you take the middle line away, both halves vanish, because they are a product of the same line.

This is actually exactly how thought (the illusion of multiplicity) works. For example, "up" never exists without "down", and vice versa. 

Damn, why I seem to keep having these commonalities with some of you "enlightened" people (quotation mark because its not always clear from my pov where someones at) but I have a obvious sense of self (albeit incredibly void at times, and subtle) every single second of every day all my life, pretty much. Yes. Not for once, ever, have I had that obvious non dual opening, at least what it seems from my experience. (ok yes theres some slight overrexageration but im making a point)

Just putting that out there, might expand on it some day somewhere. 

But yea, adding to the point I just made, I have thought also like you say there, if I remember correctly, it rings a bell in me, altough not so explicitly as the zooming thing I mentioned. The thing about thoughts tho, yes I experience that very clearly and have naturally reflected on it. 

Edited 4 hours ago by Sugarcoat

[Breakingthewall]

6 hours ago, Osaid said:

That is not true. It is a misunderstanding. There is no benefit to believing you will experience the future because no one experiences it. The benefit is still part of the belief.

What do you mean, no? That's precisely the key to human evolutionary success: creating a mental model of the individual and the group that evolves over time.

So, you do things like build a wall, worrying that in the future a group of bloodthirsty killers might come and impale your entire family. This worries you, and you build the wall; otherwise, you wouldn't

[Joseph Maynor]

35 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

Damn, why I seem to keep having these commonalities with some of you "enlightened" people

Because they aren't enlightened lol.  

[Sugarcoat]

5 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

Because they aren't enlightened lol.  

hahahaahahahhaahahahhaahahhahahahaahah i swear what you just said applies to so many yes. I can't tell you how many times I see poeple here or on internet talk about these things and Im in my head like "youre not really speaking from that place" haha

Edited 4 hours ago by Sugarcoat

[Joseph Maynor]

2 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

hahahaahahahhaahahahhaahahhahahahaahah i swear what you just said applies to so many yes. I can't tell you how many times I see poeple here or on internet talk about these things and Im in my head like "youre not really speaking from that place" haha

There is only one person who can be enlightened.  

[Sugarcoat]

Just now, Joseph Maynor said:

There is only one person who can be enlightened.  

ok now idk what youre saying

[Joseph Maynor]

3 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

ok now idk what youre saying

That's ok.  

[Sugarcoat]

6 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

That's ok.  

👍🏻

[Mellowmarsh]

45 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

What do you mean, no? That's precisely the key to human evolutionary success: creating a mental model of the individual and the group that evolves over time.

So, you do things like build a wall, worrying that in the future a group of bloodthirsty killers might come and impale your entire family. This worries you, and you build the wall; otherwise, you wouldn't

 

Nothing is coming to save you, and nothing is going to stop you. 

 

[Wilhelm44]

2 hours ago, Mellowmarsh said:

 

Nothing is coming to save you, and nothing is going to stop you. 

 

Amen