How to experience a concept instead of thinking about and theorizing about it?

[Spiritual Warrior]

Hi all, Im stuck on something in my contemplation work and Im wondering if you guys can help me. 

So I understand that to experience an insight, it must start with a state of not-knowing. This requires me to experience what something is without any thoughts or beliefs about it. For example, I feel an itch on the back of my head, if I can experience the itch itself without thinking about it, this is accessing a state of not knowing because if I can experience the itch fully without any beliefs about it, then I have to admit that I really don't know what the itch is. And I get that and I am getting glimpses of that.

But now, lets take this experience to a concept, for example, spiral dynamics. The model of spiral dynamics is this web of ideas and thoughts that are all connected together and if you study it enough, you are able to connect all of the ideas inside of your own head. Now, this model is already a bunch of thoughts and ideas so how on Earth do I simply experience this for what it is when its already conceptual in nature? I am having a hard time wrapping my little brain around that. Please help  

[Spiritual Warrior]

Okay, I just got this insight from AI, it relates spiral dynamics to being a filing cabinet inside of your own mind. The files inside of it are red, blue, orange, etc. In order to experience the concept as itself, don't take the files out, take a look and experience the whole filing cabinet. 

[VeganAwake]

The difficulty is the subconscious will still attempt to label, identify and describe the experience/concepts according to its societal conditioning.

It's so much easier if it's truly realized and embodied that "you really do not know"

It has to be seen clearly that your knowledge and understanding of these concepts is or at least could be, completely incorrect.

Unknowing is knowing you don't actually know.

[Breakingthewall]

On 24/5/2026 at 3:17 PM, Spiritual Warrior said:

if I can experience the itch itself without thinking about it, this is accessing a state of not knowing because if I can experience the itch fully without any beliefs about it, then I have to admit that I really don't know what the itch is

Opposite, if you experience the itch without thoughts about it, you will know exactly what it is. You will perceive the reality happening, it's movement and it's vitality. 

But it's not only stopping your conceptual thinking about it, you need to open yourself to the flow of reality, and that means being open to yourself because you are the reality happening. 

 

Edited 13 hours ago by Breakingthewall

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, VeganAwake said:

Unknowing is knowing you don't actually know.

Then you know that you don't know, and this happen because you are deeply attached to the conceptual learned world but in a negative mode. If you really transcend the learned mental structure, you would know directly. What you are doing is protecting yourself of the conceptual mind constructing a negative conceptual mind and getting stuck in it

[Leo Gura]

Just observe it.

With psychedelics you will be able to observe it much deeper.

Edited 13 hours ago by Leo Gura

[Mellowmarsh]

On 24/05/2026 at 2:22 PM, Spiritual Warrior said:

Okay, I just got this insight from AI, it relates spiral dynamics to being a filing cabinet inside of your own mind. The files inside of it are red, blue, orange, etc. In order to experience the concept as itself, don't take the files out, take a look and experience the whole filing cabinet. 

The thought itself is real, we experience it in reality. But the content of the thought is an image literally, imaginary. When you think of a cup, you have an image of the cup in mind, but you cannot pour tea into it or drink out of it.

[gettoefl]

To understand world use mind. Mind is good tool. All ideas and theories are limited and unnecessary ultimately. But still play the game. Spirit knows spirit and mind understands mind. See the spirit in everything as you rightly explain. Also enjoy everything for everything's sake. There are always two levels at play. Don't confuse them.

[Breakingthewall]

The logical mind can understand logic (if it is well-tuned). Logic is coherent relationships, and the reality that appears is made up of logical relationships. We could also call it mathematics.

All of reality that appears can be broken down into formulas and equations, including feelings and consciousness, since they are relationships.

Therefore, the mind can basically understand everything. The mind can even understand the source of reality, the absence of limits that lives, and can also formulate it mathematically in a simple formula: zero = infinity.

The fact that reality is comprehensible does not negate that it is alive, absolute, divine, or whatever you want to call it. The point is that understanding is just a tool of the mind, not the mind. The mind is over all consciousness, being aware of yourself, that's , of the reality. Then the point is don't get stuck in the logical mind and this is achieved when the logical mind works clear without hindrance and see the relationship everywhere, then it can relax and stop because everything is clear 

[VeganAwake]

9 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

If you really transcend the learned mental structure, you would know directly. 

Reality isn't logical though and it's certainly not mathematics. 

Logic and mathematics are created by humans and labeled/placed onto reality by humans. But that doesn't actually make reality those things.

 

 

It's also not transending. That sounds like some egoic delusion. 

It's dropping or unknowing and when that happens nothing fills its place. It's emptiness through and through but that emptiness is also the completness or fullness longed for.

If something fills in that knowing meaning/purpose concept, be sure it's the spiritual ego/self illusion hard at work to feel superior.

Also proof is in the pudding.

What exactly is known? Seriously what?

Saying it can be known over and over again using big words, isn't very convincing.

But that's just the problem with this so-called higher consciousness framework.......it's literally all wild imagination.

That's exactly why the conclusions sound like a constant word salad going in circles over and over.

What is the motivation? To be able to share confusing stories about reality that have no real use except for an imagined one.

Sounds like a fruitless endeavor 

[Breakingthewall]

19 minutes ago, VeganAwake said:

Reality isn't logical though and it's certainly not mathematics. 

Logic and mathematics are created by humans and labeled/placed onto reality by humans. But that doesn't actually make reality those things

You are talking about concepts that are not in your level, but if you want I can explain you how it works. But as you wont listen I'm lazy to do. Just in short: humans didn't invent maths, they discovered mathematics. Mathematics are the language of reality because are the language of relations

19 minutes ago, VeganAwake said:

If something fills in that knowing meaning/purpose concept, be sure it's the spiritual ego/self illusion hard at work to feel superior.

Yes, anything that you can't understand is the devil. Bad ego evil false. Repeat with me: self doesn't exist , I'm enlightened. If you repeat this enough times, like 1 million, you become enlightened.

19 minutes ago, VeganAwake said:

That's exactly why the conclusions sound like a constant word salad going in circles over and over.

Could you contemplate the possibility, just the possibility, that you can't understand some ideas ? No, because you are defensive, like a fundamentalist. 

Anyway, I'm going to try to communicate in your language: self doesn't exist. Self doesn't exist. Self doesn't exist? Self doesn't exist!

Edited 4 hours ago by Breakingthewall

[VeganAwake]

14 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

You are talking about concepts that are not in your level, but if you want I can explain you how it works. But as you wont listen I'm lazy to do. Just in short: humans didn't invent maths, they discovered mathematics. Mathematics are the language of reality because are the language of relations

Yes, anything that you can't understand is the devil. Bad ego evil false. Repeat with me: self doesn't exist , I'm enlightened. If you repeat this enough times, like 1 million, you become enlightened.

Could you contemplate the possibility, just the possibility, that you can't understand some ideas ? No, because you are defensive, like a fundamentalist. 

Anyway, I'm going to try to communicate in your language: self doesn't exist. Self doesn't exist. Self doesn't exist? Self doesn't exist!

Saying mathematics is the language of reality doesn't make it so, sorry. 

Your so-called concepts don't equate to anything. Mathematics isn't important in anyway whatsoever. I can grow endless potatoes when the weather is good. I don't need to count them over and over again using silly formulas to make it sound complex.

The very idea of someone being enlightened makes absolutely no sense and illuminates your understanding of the topic.

Enlightenment is when the individual that believes in "devil, bad, evil" all concepts learned by conditioned society, is recognized to be a self illusion.

This Breakingthewall character that believes in evil, devil, and good and bad.........is a self illusion, a puppet of conditioned society. It's not real.......get it!..........the body is there.......but not Breakingthewall character.

The devil and evil isn't even real bud, neither is god............those were just silly stories created by afraid humans a long time ago!

Your entire paradigm is about to be pulled out from under you.

And that will certainly feel scary like death because you are so attached to what you think you know and all the bs conclusions you believe you've discovered over the years.

This enlightenment stuff is way out of your league. It throws out the baby with the bathwater.

You are still attached to knowing and believing you can control and know reality through conditioned human intelligence........it cant be known!

[Breakingthewall]

34 minutes ago, VeganAwake said:

Your so-called concepts don't equate to anything. Mathematics isn't important in anyway whatsoever. I can grow endless potatoes when the weather is good. I don't need to count them over and over again using silly formulas to make it sound complex.

Of course, and you can repeat for ever the mantra that self is false without mathematics or any understanding, but if we are talking about the real observation and understanding of reality, we will see that reality is made of lógical relationship, just because what's not logical doesn't appear, and logic is mathematics.

34 minutes ago, VeganAwake said:

The very idea of someone being enlightened makes absolutely no sense and illuminates your understanding of the topic.

Enlightenment is when the individual that believes in "devil, bad, evil" all concepts learned by conditioned society, is recognized to be a self illusion.

This Breakingthewall character that believes in evil, devil, and good and bad.........is a self illusion, a puppet of conditioned society. It's not real.......get it!..........the body is there.......but not Breakingthewall character.

The devil and evil isn't even real bud, neither is god............those were just silly stories created by afraid humans a long time ago!

Your entire paradigm is about to be pulled out from under you.

And that will certainly feel scary like death because you are so attached to what you think you know and all the bs conclusions you believe you've discovered over the years.

This enlightenment stuff is way out of your league. It throws out the baby with the bathwater.

You are still attached to knowing and believing you can control and know reality through conditioned human intelligence........it cant be known!

I don't understand what you try to transmit, sorry. Anyway ,if you think that you are understanding what I mean when I write, you are wrong, then better don't chat. 

Edited 3 hours ago by Breakingthewall