Nothing important is happening

[Joseph Maynor]

7 minutes ago, Mellowmarsh said:

It’s okay, you’re not alone in not-knowing.

What is this conveying?  

[Mellowmarsh]

2 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

What is this conveying?  

It’s conveying it’s not a “someone” that knows. You are the knowing that cannot be known, because the known knows nothing.
 

This knowing is alone, one without a second, identical to not-alone. 
 

 

[VeganAwake]

6 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

I can meditate in absolute silence, even walking on the street. I'm not thinking about that self that you mention, it's just presence, but this presence is recognition of being itself. Also I can vape 40 mg nndmt, 20 of 5meo, without any hallucinations, just a hole where the mind use to be, and it's the same: presence that means recognition of being. Also big dose of mushroom, with hallucinations, but same, zero thoughts, only forms and colors, and it's the same, presence, recognition of being.

That is the fact of being conscious, if there is consciousness there is recognition of being. And this is the self. Then a model of reality based in human interaction is created, it's not false, it's a level of organization of the self. You can erase that level and there is still presence, and presence equates to self. 

That's why al hallaj, etc, said I'm the truth, etc . They mean that they are what is. The reality. 

You should talk about those enlightened people I quote. Are them delusional according your view? Nisgardatta, Ramana, Ramakrishna, Jesus, meister Eckhart, etc. Don't be offensive as a defense, just give your opinion 

Then that's what's being experienced there! It's whole, complete and perfect.

There is no issue here with that or what anyone else you mentioned believes or has said 🙏

 

[Breakingthewall]

2 hours ago, VeganAwake said:

It's whole, complete and perfect.

Whole complete and perfect are not opposite to the existence of a self. What I mean is that consciousness implies a self.

What is consciousness according to you? It is subjective experience right? "Subjective" "perceived" "being aware". Don't you see it? Implies self for the very fact of its structure. Maybe not the ego , a clean self without identification, but consciousness and self are inseparable 

Btw, what a boring people around here, this is an interesting topic but nobody is interested. They are interested only in solipsism.

[Mellowmarsh]

10 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Don't you see it

 

The "it" does not refer to a specific person, or object. Instead, it functions as a dummy subject (or placeholder) 

Dummy subject see nothing, know nothing.

 

 

[Breakingthewall]

42 minutes ago, Mellowmarsh said:

 

The "it" does not refer to a specific person, or object. Instead, it functions as a dummy subject (or placeholder) 

Dummy subject see nothing, know nothing.

 

 

How do you know that?

[Mellowmarsh]

Just now, Breakingthewall said:

How do you know that?

I don’t. I doesn’t know. I is already being known. The known knows nothing.

[Sugarcoat]

On 2026-06-12 at 5:35 AM, VeganAwake said:

Yup, and that process feels like a slow rebalancing of energy distribution. 

The self character isn't forgotten. It’s been at the forefront of the mind for a very long time and there are long-term habits/preferences still intact. Some of those things change rather quickly and some don't.

The things that did change quickly seemed to be directly tied to that conditioned self character.......for example the self guilt about desperately needing to advance my rank in the military to keep up with the competition, that almost dropped immediately. Also my fitness goals changed really quickly. 

The entire concern about upholding my overall professional image dropped basically. 

As far as the acting out roles thing.....its similar to an actor/actress playing a fictional character. The actor knows the character isn't real, but when they are playing the role, it's almost as if the body's energy brings it to life.

Something that wasn't expected was how clearly the understanding is of how this sense of self becomes so prevalent in each body/mind. 

 

 

It's like everything changes and nothing changes. 

I didn't stop being a father, in fact it's much better because there isn't a me trying to play out my hopes and dreams through my boys. It's easy to tell what they are interested in......just have to pay attention to them!

That sounds like a state that is becoming more and more effortless

If you dont mind, for how long has this been going on for you, this process? 

Im asking because the way you describe, I can relate to the descriptions, except that knowing of the "unrealness" of self. Thats why im curious. As you say "understanding of how this sense of self becomes so prevalent in each body/mind". Yea ive noticed how when things shifts in me then it also changes how I experience others and what kind of "self" I pick up/sense from them, and naturally I think about how it all works  . 

Yea it makes sense that the kind of change you describe would help your parenthood 😄

Edited yesterday at 08:08 AM by Sugarcoat

[Sugarcoat]

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

How do you know that?

Those exacttt words are what I have thought in my mind when I have read your detailed intricate descriptions of the nature of reality and the "cosmos" ☠️ Just causal everyday observations for you I guess 😂😂😂

Edited yesterday at 08:35 AM by Sugarcoat

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Sugarcoat said:

Those exacttt words are what I have thought in my mind when I have read your detailed intricate descriptions of the nature of reality and the "cosmos" ☠️ Just causal everyday observations for you I guess 😂😂😂

Just logical deductions. Removing what is impossible and let's see what apparently possible remains. For example, how could be the reality limited? It's logically impossible. Then if the reality is unlimited, how could be the reality a god with a concrete will? It's logically impossible, etc

Edited 23 hours ago by Breakingthewall

[gettoefl]

5 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

Whole complete and perfect are not opposite to the existence of a self. What I mean is that consciousness implies a self.

What is consciousness according to you? It is subjective experience right? "Subjective" "perceived" "being aware". Don't you see it? Implies self for the very fact of its structure. Maybe not the ego , a clean self without identification, but consciousness and self are inseparable 

Btw, what a boring people around here, this is an interesting topic but nobody is interested. They are interested only in solipsism.

This is an amazing often hillarious joust. Nothing to add except Godspeed to you both.

[Sugarcoat]

34 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Just logical deductions. 

+ some kind of VIP access to the absolute. Got it

[Breakingthewall]

9 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

+ some kind of VIP access to the absolute. Got it

 

The key is not to contradict logic imo. For example, a guy might be a monk who meditates in absolute openness for years in India or anywhere, but then says: "Reality is empty consciousness." So I ask him: "Look, if consciousness were truly empty, then wouldn't it be unconsciousness? Consciousness implies experience, and experience implies change, and change contradicts 'emptiness.'" Then the monk would tell me: "Brother, you're not awake, that's why you don't understand my message." Wild card! He wins!

[Breakingthewall]

48 minutes ago, gettoefl said:

This is an amazing often hillarious joust. Nothing to add except Godspeed to you both.

The ring is small, there's nowhere to escape, you have to give it your all and admit when you're wrong. I'm willing to recognize my mistakes but I need solid arguments, not just "realizations."

Anyway, what do you think, is essentially the self the fact of recognition of being, presence, consciousness, or in your opinion the self is something that comes later? Has a tuna a self? Imo yes. Not a elaborate self, just the fact of knowing that is by the fact of the subjetive experience. Not like the tuna thinks, but perception is synonym than recognition. 

[gettoefl]

54 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

The ring is small, there's nowhere to escape, you have to give it your all and admit when you're wrong. I'm willing to recognize my mistakes but I need solid arguments, not just "realizations."

Anyway, what do you think, is essentially the self the fact of recognition of being, presence, consciousness, or in your opinion the self is something that comes later? Has a tuna a self? Imo yes. Not a elaborate self, just the fact of knowing that is by the fact of the subjetive experience. Not like the tuna thinks, but perception is synonym than recognition. 

All I know is, I am. I need drop the this and the that, the here and there. When I leave it, it leaves me. The rest happens without any help. I don't know much but this is what I recognise so far.

[Sugarcoat]

8 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

 

The key is not to contradict logic imo. For example, a guy might be a monk who meditates in absolute openness for years in India or anywhere, but then says: "Reality is empty consciousness." So I ask him: "Look, if consciousness were truly empty, then wouldn't it be unconsciousness? Consciousness implies experience, and experience implies change, and change contradicts 'emptiness.'" Then the monk would tell me: "Brother, you're not awake, that's why you don't understand my message." Wild card! He wins!

Yea I agree just because someone is enlightened doesn't mean theyre the best at articulating it, they might be in  "no self" state but they can still be underdeveloped in some ways in their human. 

Edited 14 hours ago by Sugarcoat

[Sugarcoat]

8 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

Has a tuna a self? Imo yes

Now back to the question "How do you know that" forreal this time😂 At least the Vegan guy would like what u just said maybe ,so theres something to vibe over despite all the arguments....

[Breakingthewall]

2 hours ago, Sugarcoat said:

Now back to the question "How do you know that" forreal this time😂 At least the Vegan guy would like what u just said maybe ,so theres something to vibe over despite all the arguments....

 

Lets see if you see this idea (bit long at the end)

It's not that I know but understanding what the self means. It's usually thought that self is identification with a conceptual structure created by the mind. I am a person who can die, etc. and according to spirituality, if you dissolve all of that, you would be in a state of no self.

What I see is that the self is an inevitable basis in all subjective experience; that is, "subjective" is exactly what self means. Then, that self is clothed in attributes by the symbolic mind, and meditation consists of dissolving the symbolic part at will, which, by the way, is not illusory, it is symbolic. It's real that you are a person who is going to die and all that; the symbolic mind is not a "lie," it's a machine for creating models.

So, you turn the symbolic mind off, zero meaning, but subjective experience remains. This experience contains sensations, changing forms, body perception, etc., but beneath all of that lies the most fundamental thing: presence. There is a perception of being. This is the self; it is totally inherent in consciousness, so the only way to be no self is to turn off consciousness.

Then you might say: Oh, I am in pure presence, I am enlightened. Well, no, pure presence remains closed because the human structure contains mechanisms of closure, since without a symbolic mind you are still a human with encoded fear. Therefore, the symbolic mind must merge with pure presence to look fear in the face. 

Because humans can intentionally look directly to the atavistic fear to die, perceive their closure, decide (with the symbolic mind) release the closure, and open themselves to the unlimited that is. The closure is what avoid the bad and wants the good, and it's not something trivial but extremely powerful . 

Then, on a giving moment you can open yourself to the absolute, then you will realize that in this exactly moment, the absolute is seeing itself. Then another step happen, there is not observer, there is just the reality. That's what they call no self. But the reality, at least now, implies recognition of itself, you can't say that there is not self because you broke the structure of the self, you can say that the self and the flow are one, but not that the self doesn't exist 

What changes is the structure of the experience, and in a given moment any structure subject /object disappear, then the total manifest, it's not "experience", "consciousness", it's the ocean itself, the absence of limitations that lives. But this doesn't implies that the structure is illusory, it's an structure that's happening, and you have to force it to dissolve to remove the barriers let the absolute manifest itself, and you do staring the fear and opening yourself. Then, that unlimited is perceived by the fact of a self that dissolves it's centrality and become one with the unlimited. 

Edited 12 hours ago by Breakingthewall