Empathy for Child Sex Traffickers and their Victims

[Leo Gura]

Absolute and relative matters are getting conflated here.

Evil is ultimately unreal but that don't mean you want to marry a serial killer.

The human self cannot care that evil is unreal. When a serial killer is chasing you, you will not give any fucks about the ontology of evil. You run from terror.

Edited Monday at 11:46 AM by Leo Gura

[Alexop]

56 minutes ago, Wilhelm44 said:

Didn't Leo also make a video about evil as something that doesn't really exist ? I think thats the actual point that DeMartini was making.

yes, Evil doesn't exist as an absolute entinty. But "evil" as what we society call evil exists as a social construct and people like those are relatively more "evil" than other more conscious ones.

Edited Monday at 12:06 PM by Alexop

[Alexop]

24 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Absolute and relative matters are getting conflated here.

Evil is ultimately unreal but that don't mean you want to marry a serial killer.

The human self cannot care that evil is unreal. When a serial killer is chasing you, you will not give any fucks about the ontology of evil. You run from terror.

Yup, as a broad rule, we humans call evil those things that fuck up with our survival.

[trenton]

21 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

The mindfuck is that eventually you will be forced to accept that you literally ARE everyone you judge and view negatively.

If you Awaken deep enough you will realize that you are a sex trafficker, you are your father.

When you finally realize this, all judgment will cease and Love will dawn.

I would like to engage with this seriously to see what I am overlooking and where my level of consciousness is. I have a lot to learn and a lot to discover to the point that it seems overwhelming because of how big the universe is, but I will do my best.

The main thing I need to clarify is what exactly you mean when you say that I am my father as "I" could mean a lot of things depending on the perspective through which I am my father is being filtered. I will lay out a few interpretations of what I am my father might mean.

1. I am my father in the sense that in an alternate reality not accessible to this human ego, I am experiencing life literally from the perspective of my father with full access to his thought process and life history, and I am literally carrying out autonomous actions such as sex trafficking children.

2. I am my father in the sense that any division between self and other is imaginary. From the perspective of this human ego, I am interpreting information in reality and constructing stories about it. This include the appearance of human beings claiming to be my family, when technically I am imagining a belief system with stories about them being my family. All beliefs are mental constructs regardless of whether they are true or false, so in that sense any belief is only true in the relativistic sense of corresponding to a certain phenomenon. This includes the belief that I am a human, I have a family, other human beings exist, and I live in a material universe.

The consequence is that I interpret reality such that there is information external from me. If all of this reality is happening within me rather than outside of me, than in that sense My father was never outside of the experience which constitutes me. The hallucination of my father is therefore me even if he violates me. If all of reality is happening within me, then in that sense my father can't be other than me and that includes this computer screen happening within me. In this case "I" is defined as the entire bubble of experience.

3. I am my father in the sense that given a deep enough level of conscious, I am God constructing reality through this hallucination of a self. I therefore constructed my father as part of my nature through this imagination, including crimes which the human ego had not framework for understanding or comprehending. The human ego Trenton did not know what sex trafficking was when it happened. As God I imagined that Trenton would not know these things at that time in the past which is also imaginary. This sounds like it would be a mindfuck.

It is important to clarify these things as much as possible because "I am my father" could be interpreted in a lot of ways and it isn't obvious which one is meant. It might be important to clarify what we mean by "I imagined." I imagined could mean a lot of things, but I'm not sure which one is meant.

I remember my father was also a Star Wars fan. His favorite line was the mindfuck "I am your father!" I wonder how much of a mindfuck it would be if the reveal was actually that Luke Skywalker is his own father. Luke thought that his father was an evil man happening outside of him, but actually Luke was Anakin Skywalker slaughtering the younglings and terrorizing the galaxy. I find myself laughing at the mindfuck, but I want to take it seriously and engage with it.

[Leo Gura]

@trenton I mean something way more radical.

I mean that your father is literally looking through your eyes right now.

You are ontologically identical to your father. He is you and you are him.

[Raze]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

@trenton I mean something way more radical.

I mean that your father is literally looking through your eyes right now.

You are ontologically identical to your father. He is you and you are him.

Then aren’t we also our judgements and conditionings and how they react to it 

[Leo Gura]

2 minutes ago, Raze said:

Then aren’t we also our judgements and conditionings and how they react to it 

You are everything.

You are the color blue.

Edited 22 hours ago by Leo Gura

[trenton]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@trenton I mean something way more radical.

I mean that your father is literally looking through your eyes right now.

You are ontologically identical to your father. He is you and you are him.

@Leo Gura you are right that this is radical. The obvious question is how the fuck does that work? This is a mindfuck.

For some reason I feel scared when imagining my father looking through my eyes right now.

By this logic I should be looking through your eyes right now, but you probably don't mean me as an ego. You probably mean that if I am God, and I am the universe, then my father is also God and the universe. God experiences itself through consciousness such that there is no difference from looking through these eyes versus someone else's eyes. In that sense there is no distinction between any content or information in any situation in reality as all of that is relative.

On top of that, I guess it applies to all beings looking through my eyes, as ultimately they are all God. I think this raises a serious question about who is behind my eyes and how do I know. This is a tough one for me to understand.

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, trenton said:

I guess it applies to all beings looking through my eyes

Yes.

But you have to actually become conscious of that. Not just think it.

Indeed it is an epic mindfuck.

[trenton]

5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Yes.

But you have to actually become conscious of that. Not just think it.

Indeed it is an epic mindfuck.

Do you have a way to roughly estimate my degree of consciousness? I'm clearly not that conscious as to realize that you are behind my eyes. Is there a way to know roughly how conscious I am, or is such a model not applicable to this kind of work?

[Jirh]

On 04/05/2026 at 2:43 PM, Leo Gura said:

Absolute and relative matters are getting conflated here.

Evil is ultimately unreal but that don't mean you want to marry a serial killer.

The human self cannot care that evil is unreal. When a serial killer is chasing you, you will not give any fucks about the ontology of evil. You run from terror.

But not wanting to marry a serial killer is a (sub)conscious choice, coming from the developed frontal cortex, not a hard-wired limbic reflex like a fight or flight response (e.g. tiger attack). In practice, many women are attracted to serial killers. And that's just one example.

The point I'm trying to make here is that morality (good and evil) and survival are two distinct things, even if they overlap in complex ways.

Survival is hard-wired into us. While morality, on the other hand, is learned, much more flexible and can change.

That's why some people are trying to change others into having empathy for certain groups of people, because it's a conscious decision.

We never see anyone campaigning for not running away from tigers, because things like that cannot be even questioned by the conscious mind. They are built-in features of being a living organism. While morality isn't.

Edited 3 hours ago by Jirh

[Willy Phallicus]

The justice of the universe may be as simple as at some point you will experience all the suffering that you have inflicted.  You will experience it and it will be as real to you as it was to your victims, every agonizing second of it - you reap exactly what you sow.

As a bonus on top of that you get the full unadulterated truth about exactly what kind of asshole you are.

[Ulax]

On 04/05/2026 at 10:35 AM, Natasha Tori Maru said:

Ouch, I hope we are all joking. Mental illness doesn't make one better or worse in any universal sense. 

Agree

 

[Ulax]

18 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

You are everything.

You are the color blue.

So I created actualized.org? Nice