What is best pickup model ?

[Carl-Richard]

On 11.5.2026 at 4:59 AM, aurum said:

Pickup is NOT just talking to people. Conflating these two things is a mistake.

Pickup is far more involved. And it's more of modern phenomena than something humans have simply always done. Which is why we need modern solutions.

Pickup theory goes far beyond talking. Pickup theory includes feminine psychology, social psychology, logistics, how to find venues, how to work staff, state management, online game, general networking principles and more.

None of this is just obvious. And if it is obvious, then congrats. You are not the audience for learning pickup. But this does not make it invalid for guys who do need it.

The goal is to talk to women or "have success" with women (talk, connect, sleep with them, simply be with them, whatever you consider success), which is what I was commenting on pickup in relation to. All of that lies well within your skillset as a human being. Walking and music and other intuitive activities are good analogies.

Pickup other than a few books from the 70s and 80s is terminally online / antisocial people trying to find a way to not be terminally online by consuming more terminally online content. And because they're terminally online, talking to women is framed as you're this soldier in Vietnam who ventures deep into the jungle on a mission encountering dangerous creatures and daunting tasks. Meanwhile in the real world, people simply talk to each other and hang out and then things develop from there. Pickup essentially does not exist in the real world. The real world equivalent is "dating".

Pickup is in large part a vehicle for invading a social circle or space. And when you're not a part of the social circle, you're just an invader, you are generally not able to establish lasting meaningful connections, and the whole game usually becomes about being fast in and out, clinical, transactional, maximizing numbers, not real depth. It's the intersection of antisocial behavior, modern social spaces and capitalist mentality. It's understandable given the times, but sometimes one should question the solutions that are available.

It's also seemingly a strategy for people who genuinely are on the spectrum to learn socialization. They seem to need rules, need concrete techniques, or they just prefer that mode of approaching problems. If you are that, sure, go for it. But if you are simply not talking to women, interacting with them, and you wonder why you feel awkward, anxious or incapable of talking to them, maybe it's a problem of practice; just like trying to walk after lying in a hospital bed for 6 months.

 

EDIT: It is almost a tangent at this point, but you earlier discarded what I said about learning music theory being at most a bonus if not a detriment to being a good musician, and I think it's still relevant, as talking to women and whatever proceeds is still super intuitive: Aurora Aksnes, musical genius, said she was self-taught on the piano with no music theory knowledge when she wrote "Runaway" at 11 years old. That song has 1.25 billion streams on Spotify. I have more examples in that vein.

Edited Tuesday at 05:30 AM by Carl-Richard

[Ramanujan]

@Miguel1 bro , how long will it take to get good in game. like how many years

[Ramanujan]

@Carl-Richard pickup is for high Se people. INFP would get fucked if they dont choose another INFP. or INTJ. or INTP. due to low Se

[Miguel1]

48 minutes ago, Ramanujan said:

@Miguel1 bro , how long will it take to get good in game. like how many years

For you probably 2-3 years hardcore maybe 1-2

[Ramanujan]

@Miguel1 thanks bro

[Ramanujan]

On 5/9/2026 at 6:18 AM, PenguinPablo said:

Owen's approach is more intuitive and flow based.

what is the name of his course

[Zenterus]

@Ramanujan

Brother honestly I'd recommend you start with "The Natural" by RSD Max. 

In my opinion, it is the best program for beginners as well as intermediates going to advanced. It teaches you literally EVERYTHING that goes into pickup. 

There are other programs that delve deeper into optimizing specific aspects of your game (verbal, vibe, lifestyle, texting, etc) but compared to "The Natural" they are supplementary. 

[Ulax]

On 10/05/2026 at 4:17 AM, Carl-Richard said:

People learning pickup theory to be successful with women reminds me of people learning music theory to be good musicians. That's like at most a bonus, if it's not a detriment (which it very often can be). 

Playing music (or making it, be it only in thought) is what makes you a good musician. And emphasis on "playing" and not necessarily "practice". Some of the best musical virtuosos in the world have said they have never actually "practiced" but simply played what they enjoy.

So maybe the question is do you genuinely enjoy (or can you get yourself to enjoy) talking to women? Then maybe they will enjoy talking to you too (many women are like pristine mirrors, they reflect yourself right back at you).

And as for "I can enjoy talking about things I like but then women won't like me", that's not what I mean. That's literally defined as "autistic thinking", talking only about your own interests while not communicating with the other person. And it's not only women who won't like you then. If you can't tune into the other person and establish a shared space and connection, that's a larger issue of how you relate to people, and that can be trained, and you can get to like that over time, genuinely listening to people and riffing off of them.

The trick is to get to talk about your own interests "through" them. You lead, you ask, you probe, you listen, then find a connection and go from there. Or you simply learn to like observing and engaging with different perspectives which then feeds into your interests that way. If there is no connection, get it out then leave it, you are talking to yourself. You want to enjoy talking "to" or "with" them, not "at" them.

Shallow gimmicks do not beat genuine connection. When it comes to playing, drop the theory and engage with the music.

I get where you're coming from. Genuine connection is important. But you need to do the attraction and value spiking so that she actually wants to connect with you in a dating context. Especially in cold approach.

Edited yesterday at 10:01 PM by Ulax

[AION]

The king of understanding relationships is integral relationships:

If you know AQAL already this comes as second nature. But understanding doesn't always translate into skill. 

Experience is key to get skill. Mind you that naturals don't consume literature on pickup or relationships so it is kind of comical to do a program on naturals to be a natural.

If you are not a natural you need to find out why not, and work on that. Diagnosis is important. Perhaps you don't need pickup theory. Perhaps you need some cognitive behavior therapy to work on your inferiority complex. Most of those guys who do pickup actually need to work on their inferiority complex and they wouldn't even need pickup. It is the wrong medicine for the wrong disease.

My fix was to integrate the dark triad. I'm doubting myself too much and integrating the dark triad helped me majorly to get what I want from women. And then a major insight befell on me. The reason why I was frustrated at women  was the same reason I was frustrated at life which I won't expand upon here. 

Tapping into dark triad consciousness is like that guy in spiderman being bit by a spider and getting insane abilities, or how Dracula is being bit by a vampire and becomes one. Shadow work is crucial in becoming integrated.

Another thing: women have this sixth sense which is insane. That is why your state of consciousness is important.

Edited 14 hours ago by AION

[Carl-Richard]

11 hours ago, Ulax said:

I get where you're coming from. Genuine connection is important. But you need to do the attraction and value spiking so that she actually wants to connect with you in a dating context. Especially in cold approach.

Cringe. Be an uncouth hobo and attract the 10s with nerfs. Only half-joking.

Aside from perhaps basic personal hygiene and bare minimum knowledge of social conventions, people trying to hack social interactions is to me like when somebody uses AI to think or write for them. At some point, you just realize there is nothing there and it's completely inorganic and hollow like a metal tube.

Edited 13 hours ago by Carl-Richard

[Ulax]

9 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

Cringe. Be an uncouth hobo and attract the 10s with nerfs. Only half-joking.

Aside from perhaps basic personal hygiene and bare minimum knowledge of social conventions, people trying to hack social interactions is to me like when somebody uses AI to think or write for them. At some point, you just realize there is nothing there and it's completely inorganic and hollow like a metal tube.

Nah.

-----

I get your apprehensions. Trading authenticity for social outcomes is a real issue with studied seduction/ charisma. 

However, most guys are in such scarcity regarding dating that they have no options with girls that they actually want, and have to accept relationships (if they even get that) where the girl decides the relationship on her terms. That sounds unpleasant to me. Learning these skills gives dudes more options to choose from where they can find an actual match, and be able to enter relationships on an equal footing.

Edited 3 hours ago by Ulax

[Ramanujan]

@Zenterus thanks man

[Ulax]

@Ramanujan If you wanted to follow Zenterus's advice re the Natural, here is a summary of it:

https://pdfcoffee.com/thenaturalrsdmax-5-pdf-free.html

(I ran a virus check and its virus free)