This Forum Doesn’t Need Moderators

[Elliott]

18 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

@Elliott Your theory on how this site would function with zero moderation, and your projection of your own bad boundaries around acceptable behaviour, are combining to perpetuate a delusion.

Overall, as a person and not just a moderator, I worry about you.

You can perceive this as an attack, but I assure you it isn't. You don't even have to care. 

Because you don't understand what's being discussed, you keep on going on about emptying, we're talking about how dialogue is moderated. I'm not suggesting we'll be nicer if we're unmoderated, that's your delusion, fake niceties are unnecessary and impediments. The reactions you're seeing in this thread alone highlight the lack of basic social understanding as kindergarteners say "words will never hurt me", in an "advanced" forum lol. Yes it's generally immature to name call, but what happens in public when someone calls you a name, you call the police?

Edited 4 hours ago by Elliott

[Natasha Tori Maru]

12 minutes ago, Monster Energy said:

The good parts might get buried sometimes, but they would also resurface. I think freedom always brings both destruction and creation. Rules make people behave like robots.

I don't mean to be rude - but this could be a 'you' thing also. Rules are there for a reason - but they can always be bent and broken. The whole gig of moderating is flirting with this grey area (for me anyway). You could ask @Leo Gura for his opinion. Ultimately as much as we would love for this to be a democracy - Leo gets to call all shots. And he can break or make any rule he sees fit. We just arbiter them with best judgement. You could always ask Leo what he looks for. Dunno!

8 minutes ago, Elliott said:

Because you don't understand what's being discussed, you keep on going on about emptying, we're talking about how dialogue is moderated. I'm not suggesting we'll be nicer if we're unmoderated, that's your delusion, fake niceties are unnecessary and impediments.

I mentioned emptying as a possible way to incorporate @Monster Energy's idea. I did not 'keep talking about' emptying. And this does not mean I missed the point. You have no idea what I understood as to what you are talking about. Non-acknowledgment doesn't mean what you think it means. But you are wrong in your assessments of what I quoted.

Take care.

Edited 4 hours ago by Natasha Tori Maru

[Elliott]

We're just having a discussion, it's not like we're rioting. Jesus

 

Monster Energy trying to have a philosohpical discussion

 

 

What the moderators feel he's saying

Edited 3 hours ago by Elliott

[Monster Energy]

9 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

I don't mean to be rude - but this could be a 'you' thing also. Rules are there for a reason - but they can always be bent and broken. The whole gig of moderating is flirting with this grey area (for me anyway). You could ask @Leo Gura for his opinion. Ultimately as much as we would love for this to be a democracy - Leo gets to call all shots. And he can break or make any rule he sees fit. We just arbiter them with best judgement. You could always ask Leo what he looks for. Dunno!

 

I appreciate that you actually took the time to listen and respond. You’ve been fair with me and I respect that. I’ve listened to your perspective too. At the end of the day we’ll probably just have to agree to disagree. And of course I understand that Leo ultimately decides since it’s his forum.

 

[Monster Energy]

@Elliott 

I thank you for backing me up

 

Edited 3 hours ago by Monster Energy

[Natasha Tori Maru]

4 minutes ago, Monster Energy said:

I appreciate that you actually took the time to listen and respond. You’ve been fair with me and I respect that. I’ve listened to your perspective too. At the end of the day we’ll probably just have to agree to disagree. And of course I understand that Leo ultimately decides since it’s his forum.

Its all G  

I learned a while ago when in brainstorming or design meetings at work that shooting someone's idea down isn't good. It can polarise them against you, or just demoralize em'. It is much better to try to find a way to make it work with adjustments or proposals and build from there. The best ideas always form this way.

Of course there are times when a total slap-down happens - usually when there is some rudeness or impolite shit necessitating boundaries being drawn in how the idea is expressed - but that is different entirely. Or when the idea is really not grounded in reality and totally unfeasible. Occasionally it is also difficult to address an idea that is so so wrong it isn't worth the time going into just how many which ways it is crazy!

I haven't ever seen any sort of problematic stuff from you anyway, fwiw. Just the AI use, but that is totally different to this discussion.

[integral]

1 hour ago, Monster Energy said:

The good parts might get buried sometimes, but they would also resurface. I think freedom always brings both destruction and creation. Rules make people behave like robots.

I have the freedom to kill, rape and keep you as my pet in my basement. 

So we create a rule against this.

This causes the benefit of being able to walk down the street with relative safety. 

One rule creates the freedom to walk outside.

Rules CREATE freedom.

[Elliott]

29 minutes ago, integral said:

I have the freedom to kill, rape and keep you as my pet in my basement. 

So we create a rule against this.

This causes the benefit of being able to walk down the street with relative safety. 

One rule creates the freedom to walk outside.

Rules CREATE freedom.

Yes, no one gets raped or killed anymore @integral . Brilliant, never thought of that.

Edited 1 hour ago by Elliott

[Ziran]

2 hours ago, Monster Energy said:

I think freedom always brings both destruction and creation. Rules make people behave like robots.

Because freedom needs to be protected, it can never be free.

[Elliott]

For it to work, would require a process. You slowly reduce moderation while promoting a culture of moderation, everyone is essentially a moderator but can only moderate with words or ignoring users. It would require more people to intervene, a cultural change, one that fosters much needed social skills here. It would take a lot of work, admittedly, but it would create a better community.

Edited 1 hour ago by Elliott

[Natasha Tori Maru]

There are many assumptions being made about moderating going on here.

Just be aware until you have moderated a forum, especially one such as this, you won't really understand what you are proposing.

This is all just theory, ideas and concepts.

Reality is far, far different. 

[Elliott]

3 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

There are many assumptions being made about moderating going on here.

Just be aware until you have moderated a forum, especially one such as this, you won't really understand what you are proposing.

This is all just theory, ideas and concepts.

Reality is far, far different. 

It's just a discussion, not a campaign.

[Elliott]

11 hours ago, Monster Energy said:

I understand that moderation helps keep the site functioning. My point was more philosophical. If the goal of this forum is higher consciousness and radical self-honesty, then too much moderation can also limit authentic expression. Sometimes growth comes from friction and uncomfortable conversations, not just order.

 

 

Edited 1 hour ago by Elliott

[Natasha Tori Maru]

2 minutes ago, Elliott said:

It's just a discussion, not a campaign.

Yeah and I am contributing to the discussion - highlighting that there are issues you cannot foresee until you are in the role.

Do you want to give it a try?

[Natasha Tori Maru]

@Elliott Stop responding to everything a moderator says as if their response is an attempt to moderate you or the discussion.

We are users as well. A moderators opinion is just that - an opinion or addition to a discussion. It is not a corrective measure. Corrective measures are explicit for a reason.

Would love to speak to you in real life.

Edited 1 hour ago by Natasha Tori Maru

[Elliott]

4 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

@Elliott Stop responding to everything a moderator says as if their response is an attempt to moderate you or the discussion.

We are users as well. A moderators opinion is just that - an opinion or addition to a discussion. It is not a corrective measure. Corrective measures are explicit for a reason.

Would love to speak to you in real life.

Ooh, that brings up something that could help, remove the moderator badges!

[Natasha Tori Maru]

15 minutes ago, Elliott said:

Ooh, that brings up something that could help, remove the moderator badges!

I've personally wanted that from the start. I think Leo had some reasons around wanting moderator badges though. How users respond to me in general totally changed with the moderator badge. Which is sad, but understandable.

I prefer to fly under the radar.

Edited 1 hour ago by Natasha Tori Maru

[zurew]

3 hours ago, Monster Energy said:

The good parts might get buried sometimes, but they would also resurface. I think freedom always brings both destruction and creation. Rules make people behave like robots.

Can you point to something that substantiates that your theory works in pracitce - like a site where there is 0 moderation, but given your standards the discourse quality is better  or an example where there was moderation and after it was completely lifted the discourse quality overall got better.

Edited 49 minutes ago by zurew

[Jacob Morres]

no moderation is dangerous. it lets bad characters run loose without repurcussion. it will bring the quality down very low

[Ramasta9]

11 hours ago, Monster Energy said:

Many people on this forum have seen moderators abuse their role. And when you understand psychology on a deeper level, it doesn’t really make sense to have moderators enforcing so many rules about how people are allowed to express themselves. There isn’t much good logic in that if the goal is to increase awareness. But if the goal is to increase control and a sense of safety, then these rules make more sense.

 

No moderator does this to the extent that Leo does, so they can only follow their master as the leading example. I was asked to Mod once, I refused for these very reasons and some others that would limit my natural and full expression. Knowing the game almost too well, the cycles and patterns repeat themselves. Don't get me wrong, some moderators have helped the forum and leo shape his/the overall behavior and energy here quite a lot, but at the same time its still like primary school in spirituality and consciousness work, in some aspects still kindergarten in overall stability and mental / emotional balance.  When i see potential, that's when i feel worthy to invest more energy, but my full potential often becomes a threat to the highchair systems here, otherwise this place could be so much more than its currently been, especially if its more open and free like you say. Some of the best posters and brightest minds and hearts are no longer around for these very reasons. I enjoy the activity here though. So we will see, only time will tell.

 

Edited 39 minutes ago by Ramasta9