Ontological Nihilism &Metaphysical Nihilism: the craziest philosophical worldviews

[Someone here]

Below is full texts quotes from Chatgpt about ontological nihilism and metaphysical nihilism.  If you think metaphysical solipsism is crazy then you ain't seen nothing lol. I actually totally agree with the entire text and I think it is also obvious and non-debatable. And it's fascinating also to note that this aligned perfectly with Buddhism's worldview . 

Starting with ontological nihilism :

"Ontological nihilism is a philosophical view that denies the existence of any kind of objective reality or that there is no inherent "being" or "substance" that defines existence in the traditional sense. It's a subset of nihilism that focuses specifically on the nature of being and existence itself.
Here’s a more detailed breakdown:
Ontology refers to the branch of philosophy that deals with the study of being, existence, and the categories of being. It explores questions like "What exists?" and "What does it mean for something to exist?"
Nihilism is the broader philosophical stance that life lacks inherent meaning, purpose, or value. Nihilism can apply to ethics, knowledge, and metaphysics.
So, ontological nihilism takes nihilism a step further by claiming that nothing truly exists in a substantial or enduring sense. There might be phenomena, objects, or experiences, but they have no permanent or intrinsic being. According to ontological nihilists, all entities are either illusory, fleeting, or not truly "existent" in the way we typically understand existence.
Key Points:
No Objective Existence: There is no objective, independent reality. Everything that we perceive as "existing" is either a construct of our minds or transient in nature.
Denial of Substances or Entities: There's no underlying "substance" or "thing" that grounds all existence. The things we think of as "real" may not have an essence or intrinsic nature.
Influence of Other Nihilistic Ideas: Ontological nihilism often overlaps with metaphysical nihilism (the idea that there may be nothing in existence at all) and epistemological nihilism (the idea that knowledge is impossible or meaningless).
Examples:
A radical version of ontological nihilism might argue that the universe itself, and everything in it, lacks any true essence. Things only exist temporarily or relative to human perception, but no one or no thing truly "is" in any objective, substantial sense.
Philosophers like Husserl and Heidegger (to some degree) explored similar themes, though their work wasn’t strictly ontological nihilism. They focused on the way we perceive and experience existence, questioning whether it could be reduced to nothingness or if it always depends on perception.
In summary, ontological nihilism is the belief that existence itself, as we conceive it, is not grounded in anything fundamental or permanent."

I totally agree with all of that. 100% accurate description of reality as is .

Moving on to metaphysical nihilism:

"Metaphysical nihilism is a philosophical position that suggests that nothing exists in the most fundamental sense of the term. Unlike other forms of nihilism, which focus on the meaning or value of life, metaphysical nihilism specifically challenges the idea of the existence of any kind of substance, entity, or object in the universe, or at least the possibility of everything that exists being nothing at some level.
At its core, metaphysical nihilism proposes that there may be no objects or entities that persist through time or have an inherent existence. This doesn't necessarily mean that things don't exist in a superficial, practical sense (like trees, rocks, or people), but that the totality of existence could be void of any enduring or fundamental things. In extreme versions of metaphysical nihilism, this position even suggests that the universe might not exist at all, or that it could just be a contingent, temporary structure without any essential being.
Key Features of Metaphysical Nihilism:
Denial of Fundamental Existence: Metaphysical nihilism denies that there is any fundamental, enduring substance that everything else is grounded in. For example, it rejects the idea of some basic "stuff" (like matter or energy) that everything is made of.
Contingency of Objects: It holds that all objects or entities in the universe might be contingent, meaning they could either not have existed at all or could cease to exist without any fundamental reason. Essentially, there is nothing that requires the existence of particular objects or the universe itself.
The Possibility of "No Existence": In its extreme form, metaphysical nihilism suggests that there might be no entities, no objects, no universe—just complete nothingness. Some versions suggest that the universe could have come into existence by chance or that it might vanish into non-existence, and this could be equally likely or even inevitable.
Denial of Ontology: Metaphysical nihilism is closely related to ontological nihilism, but with a specific focus on the non-existence of all entities or substances, rather than just the denial of a particular kind of existence (e.g., rejecting the existence of essential "beings").
Variants of Metaphysical Nihilism:
Strong Metaphysical Nihilism: This version argues that there is a total lack of existence, meaning that nothing exists at all—there is no universe, no objects, and no things in any sense. This is an extremely radical stance, but it is taken seriously by some philosophers, particularly in relation to questions about the ultimate fate of the universe (e.g., could the universe "cease to be"?).
Weak Metaphysical Nihilism: This version might argue that individual objects or entities do not have any necessary or essential existence, but it doesn’t necessarily deny that the universe as a whole could exist. For example, it might suggest that objects are only contingent (they could exist, but they don’t have to), and that even though things may exist now, they could just as easily not have existed at all.
Existential Nihilism (Not to be Confused with Metaphysical Nihilism): While metaphysical nihilism concerns the very essence of existence, existential nihilism is often more concerned with the meaning or purpose of existence. It suggests that, even if existence is real, it lacks inherent meaning, purpose, or value.
Philosophical Roots:
Leibniz: The 17th-century philosopher Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz raised questions about why the universe is the way it is, suggesting that the existence of the universe might be contingent. He proposed that things could be different, and perhaps nothing at all might exist.
David Hume: In his skepticism about causality and necessity, David Hume questioned whether there is any necessary connection in the world, which aligns with the ideas in metaphysical nihilism about the contingent nature of existence.
Contemporary Philosophers: More recently, philosophers like Peter van Inwagen and David Lewis have examined the implications of metaphysical nihilism through debates about the possibility of a "quantum vacuum" or the nature of possible worlds, where they consider whether nothingness could be a genuine possibility.
Example of the Position:
A classic formulation of metaphysical nihilism is the "nothingness" argument:
Imagine a possible world in which nothing exists—no physical objects, no events, no time, no space, just pure nothingness. Metaphysical nihilism entertains the possibility that our universe could, in fact, be a contingent state, and there could easily be a possible world where nothing exists at all.
This view is not necessarily about denying the existence of particular things (like trees or mountains), but rather about suggesting that existence, in the most absolute sense, is not necessary.
Criticism:
Challenge of Possibility: One criticism of metaphysical nihilism is the question of how nothing could be considered a "possibility" at all. Some argue that we cannot meaningfully talk about "nothing" because even the concept of "nothing" seems to imply some kind of something.
Logical and Conceptual Problems: There are also challenges to the coherence of metaphysical nihilism. If nothing exists, then there wouldn’t be any possibility of there being a world where things could not exist. Some argue that non-existence might be an incoherent or impossible state to conceive.
Conclusion:
Metaphysical nihilism is a radical philosophical position that challenges our common understanding of existence by suggesting that nothing exists at the most fundamental level or that existence could be contingent, even unnecessary. While extreme in some versions, it has been influential in the history of philosophy, raising questions about the nature of existence, reality, and whether there is any essential substance or foundation to the universe."

The only thing I disagree with is the idea that  "nothing exists at all " or "there is no existence whatsoever ". This is totally wrong and false . There is obviously apparent existence..but like it's described above on all the other points like contingency..lack of substance or ultimate ground ..etc its all spot on.

Please do read the two texts and let's discuss whether what's said is accurate or not ..hopefully without using AI lol.

[Leo Gura]

God is what exists. And God is way more radical than this nihilism stuff.

God is the only ontology.

Find God and you will shit your pants.

Edited 6 hours ago by Leo Gura

[Someone here]

@Leo GuraYou define God as Existence itself ..also Infinity ..Nothingness..Love..Absolute Truth. 

Ontological and metaphysical nihilism focus on the "Nothingness " aspect more . If you meant to say they are not wrong but just not holistic or missing other aspects then I do agree .

Edited 5 hours ago by Someone here

[Leo Gura]

38 minutes ago, Someone here said:

@Leo GuraYou define God as Existence itself ..also Infinity ..Nothingness..Love..Absolute Truth. 

Ontological and metaphysical nihilism focus on the "Nothingness " aspect more . If you meant to say they are not wrong but just not holistic or missing other aspects then I do agree .

No. I mean to say that God is an entirely different league of consciousness and reality which the nihilist cannot even imagine.

[AerisVahnEphelia]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

No. I mean to say that God is an entirely different league of consciousness and reality which the nihilist cannot even imagine.

it's so nihilistic that nihilism cannot be framed anymore lol

[Someone here]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

No. I mean to say that God is an entirely different league of consciousness and reality which the nihilist cannot even imagine.

Sure . I'm not discussing how your understanding of God intersects with these philosophical schools..I'm discussing them on their own and whether they are true or not .

[Someone here]

1 hour ago, AerisVahnEphelia said:

it's so nihilistic that nihilism cannot be framed anymore lol

Who said it can't be framed ? It's just the stance of denying any inherent existence to anything at hand .so ..

Moral Nihilism: there are no objective morals or rights vs wrongs .

Existential Nihilism: there is no inherent meaning or purpose to existence. 

Epistemological Nihilism: knowledge Is impossible. We can't know anything for sure. 

Ontological Nihilism: Nothing substantial exists. 

Metaphysical Nihilism: Nothing at all exists..substantial or otherwise. 

Like that..

 

 

[Leo Gura]

10 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Sure . I'm not discussing how your understanding of God intersects with these philosophical schools..I'm discussing them on their own and whether they are true or not .

Ultimately they are not true because only God is true.

If you think God is just nothing, you are deeply mistaken.

Edited 47 minutes ago by Leo Gura

[Someone here]

9 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Ultimately they are not true .

I'm personally convinced of everything in the definition except the point that existence itself is actually non-existence..obviously nonsense. The rest is undeniably true. I dare you refute a single point. Pretty sure I've heard you say all these things yourself ad nauseam.

9 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

If you think God is just nothing, you are deeply mistaken

Nobody is talking about God now. 

[Leo Gura]

You are talking about truth!

That is God.

[Someone here]

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You are talking about truth!

That is God.

OK. I just want to hear multiple perspectives. I Don't wish for absolutist type of answers .I get what you are trying to say though . If you want.. move topic to spirituality section. 

[Leo Gura]

No problem. Discuss away.