The Truth About Animal Farming

[Basman]

29 minutes ago, Scholar said:

Why be so closed off to slavery? If only we had compromised with slave-keepers and not judged them so harshly, for many of them giving up slavery meant financial ruin after all. Those pesky, moralistic abolitionists, look how many people had to die in the civil war just because they were set on their radical ideas of ending slavery. Clearly those were just ideological, fatherless losers who couldn't cope with reality.

And look, now slavery is even worse, with people working in sweatshops for us instead of having high quality slavery where we treat our slaves with dignity and respect. So much suffering could have been prevented, the world could be a free-range slavery utopia.

Do you think raising pigs is comparable to slavery?

[Scholar]

3 minutes ago, Basman said:

Do you think raising pigs is comparable to slavery?

Do you think raising black slaves is comparable to white slavery?

[vibv]

On 12.3.2026 at 1:17 AM, Basman said:

How can you convince people that don't care? 

By increasing Consciousness, which can't be forced.

But eventually one realizes that the suffering of all creatures is our own suffering, because the division between self & other is imaginary. When chicken babies get shredded it's literally you as a chicken baby getting shredded.

Which makes it also a lot more difficult to become conscious, because you become conscious of all other being's suffering, too. So we distance ourselves from God even further and indulge in pleasures. It's a vicious spiral. On the other hand otherwise it wouldn't be possible to create so much darkness here. Who knows what that's good for...

In the end we will have to confront all that someday, somehow.

That will be only possible by coming together as Humanity. No single individual is able to bear the darkness we have created and keep creating.

Edited 4 hours ago by vibv

[Breakingthewall]

2 hours ago, Scholar said:

By this logic we might as well consider pedophiles paying for child rape acceptable,

I don't see why violating children is necessary for the existence of human civilization, but destroying ecosystems to maintain cities is. I don't see anything wrong with raising animals and killing them if their lives are lived decently, with space to roam, access to the outdoors, and generally good conditions. An animal is not the same as a person; a chicken doesn't mind being on a farm if it's comfortable. I personally almost never eat meat, but I do eat eggs and dairy products, supposedly with certain guarantees of animal welfare. 

Imagine you were a chicken, would you mind being born and dying on a farm where there is space, access to the outdoors, and good food? Why? 

[Basman]

1 hour ago, vibv said:

By increasing Consciousness, which can't be forced.

But eventually one realizes that the suffering of all creatures is our own suffering, because the division between self & other is imaginary. When chicken babies get shredded it's literally you as a chicken baby getting shredded.

Which makes it also a lot more difficult to become conscious, because you become conscious of all other being's suffering, too. So we distance ourselves from God even further and indulge in pleasures. It's a vicious spiral. On the other hand otherwise it wouldn't be possible to create so much darkness here. Who knows what that's good for...

In the end we will have to confront all that someday, somehow.

That will be only possible by coming together as Humanity. No single individual is able to bear the darkness we have created and keep creating.

Continuing one's existence means that broadly you will deny the existence of other lifeforms by necessity. Veganmaxxing still kills animals, like bugs. Just transporting the food will kill animals. Just living and breathing results in your immune system killing innocent bacteria. It's not something you can entirely avoid. The notion that it's immoral to kill animals is itself constructed, keep that in mind. At best you can point out hypocrisy. If people are fine with killing animals than they should be fine with killing people too. 

I do agree that broadly we should eat less meat, There are too many advantages not too societally, but eliminating animal products entirely is unrealistic in my opinion. It's too difficult and people are too selfish to care. You also have to be open minded to that animal husbandry doesn't have to be cruel.

Vegans are leaving a lot of potential progress on the table relative to decreasing the consumption of animal products by being so idealistic and binary in my opinion. Compromise would be a more effective approach.

[Basman]

2 hours ago, Scholar said:

Do you think raising black slaves is comparable to white slavery?

Which is why we should bio-engineer house elves. House elves like being slaves.

[vibv]

19 minutes ago, Basman said:

Continuing one's existence means that broadly you will deny the existence of other lifeforms by necessity. Veganmaxxing still kills animals, like bugs. Just transporting the food will kill animals. Just living and breathing results in your immune system killing innocent bacteria. It's not something you can entirely avoid. The notion that it's immoral to kill animals is itself constructed, keep that in mind. At best you can point out hypocrisy. If people are fine with killing animals than they should be fine with killing people too. 

I do agree that broadly we should eat less meat, There are too many advantages not too societally, but eliminating animal products entirely is unrealistic in my opinion. It's too difficult and people are too selfish to care. You also have to be open minded to that animal husbandry doesn't have to be cruel.

Vegans are leaving a lot of potential progress on the table relative to decreasing the consumption of animal products by being so idealistic and binary in my opinion. Compromise would be a more effective approach.

Sure, I don't agree with the approach of most vegans either.

But watch those documentaries and tell me that isn't ugly. I'm not against eating meat. It's about the way we produce meat and treat other beings on this planet. We abuse and rape the planet in so many ways, this is undeniable. Because most people still think of everything that isn't human as a mere object we can exploit. That is not the case, everything has its price.

This is not about judging, but becoming conscious of what we're doing. We are still living in the dark ages while pretending there's no issue. A lot of people don't want to know how their meat is produced, because it feels too uncomfortable. That is avoiding responsibility and goes against everything we teach here.

To love Truth means to open up to all the ugliness we are creating. That's the only way to Beauty, not by falsely pretending otherwise. The only way to real lasting Peace is confronting all the ways we are violent. Else we keep sweeping things under the rug where they fester and become even more ugly.

Look at the state of the world right now. Is this a species that is conscious of what it is doing?

Edited 2 hours ago by vibv