A Disturbing Truth About Spiritual Teachings

[Sincerity]

@UnbornTao Well, okay, I think I understand your position better now. And I don’t agree with it. But I don’t care to go over it anymore. Would be easier to discuss in person.

It’s good that we have diversity of perspective here though. Contrast is appreciated.

Edited 8 hours ago by Sincerity

[UnbornTao]

3 minutes ago, Sincerity said:

@UnbornTao Well, okay, I think I understand your position better now. And I don’t agree with it. But I don’t care to go over it anymore. Would be easier to discuss in person.

It’s good that we have diversity of perspective here though. Contrast is appreciated.

 Sure.

[Sincerity]

25 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

 Sure.

Engagement would definitely be easier if you replied to my arguments instead of linking me someone else’s response. 

But maybe you don’t care enough as well. That’s fine.

Edited 7 hours ago by Sincerity

[UnbornTao]

50 minutes ago, Sincerity said:

Engagement would definitely be easier if you replied to my arguments instead of linking me someone else’s response. 

But maybe you don’t care enough as well. That’s fine.

If you guys won't listen to Adi Da or Ralston, I see no reason why you'd listen to me. It's already been laid out multiple times, and yet people here continue to ignore it. I already said that experience is everything you're aware of, and this is the core point.

I wouldn't presume that the distinction of "consciousness" used by these guys is at all the same as how it's used by the rest of us - especially by believers in the psychedelic path. It's not an experience, nor cognition. But again, the unwillingness to hear this point is being proven time and time again. At best, it is framed as a "point of view" to appear charitable.

It would be wise to listen, Leo included. But I've given up on this point.

Edited 7 hours ago by UnbornTao

[Eskilon]

@UnbornTao Preach

[Sincerity]

@UnbornTao I’d be more interested to hear how YOU came to these conclusions yourself. Instead of referring to your authority figures and what they said.

Did you derive it yourself? If so, based on what? Sharing your thought process would be nice (because what you have is indeed a belief system that you’re insisting on).

Edited 3 hours ago by Sincerity

[UnbornTao]

2 hours ago, Sincerity said:

@UnbornTao I’d be more interested to hear how YOU came to these conclusions yourself. Instead of referring to your authority figures and what they said.

Did you derive it yourself? If so, based on what? Sharing your thought process would be nice (because what you have is indeed a belief system that you’re insisting on).

Jesus, what a waste of time. Whatever is said here that contradicts the shared fantasy will be ignored.

Edited 20 minutes ago by UnbornTao

[Sincerity]

29 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

Jesus, what a waste of time. Whatever is said on this will be ignored.

Is it some outlandish concept to explain how you arrived at your conclusions? What you’re basing your understanding on? Besides „Ralston told me”?

I’d have no problem explaining to you of how I got to my current understanding. And it’s not „I believe it because Leo said so”. 

Like come on, this isn’t serious.

[UnbornTao]

1 hour ago, Sincerity said:

Is it some outlandish concept to explain how you arrived at your conclusions? What you’re basing your understanding on? Besides „Ralston told me”?

I’d have no problem explaining to you of how I got to my current understanding. And it’s not „I believe it because Leo said so”. 

Like come on, this isn’t serious.

Go over my past responses. Again, this has already been said. But it's clear there's no real willingness to hear it, so don't pretend there is.

Beliefs and delusions are also derived from yourself. This excuse is really insubstantial when the realness of the subject being derived is what's in question. It is neither bulletproof nor what you think it is in this context.

For what it's worth, I too derived my "awakenings" from my breakthrough trips, and later found - after some serious reflection and honesty - that they were experiences, and that that's what the drugs do. But to do this you have to confront the reality of the situation, and face discouragement and whatever else comes up when a fantasy is given up. You have to leave space for enlightenment to be something other than an experience or state shift.

I derived from myself that drugs alter your state, by the way. To recognize that, you have to set wishful thinking aside.

Edited 4 minutes ago by UnbornTao

[Sincerity]

@UnbornTao Uh huh. Okay, nevermind. 🤷‍♂️

[UnbornTao]

40 minutes ago, Sincerity said:

@UnbornTao Uh huh. Okay, nevermind. 🤷‍♂️

Sorry, I realized I fell into this discussion again. I should have learned by now. 

[Sincerity]

1 hour ago, UnbornTao said:

I also derived my "awakenings" myself from my breakthrough trips, and then found - after some reflection and honesty - that they were experiences. That's what the drugs do. I "derived from myself" that this endeavor is based on wishful thinking. 

I see you added this just now, so I'll respond: literally every moment is "an experience". This is something I said earlier which you didn't respond to. There's not a single moment where you're not in some sort of state and not being "in an experience". It's not just "what drugs do", it's every moment.

I myself don't think in terms of "experiences" - that's a concept you keep insisting on, and I'm wondering how you derived a bias against it. Considering what I said above.

Edited just now by Sincerity