Having a Proper Epistemological Framework of Reality.

[JoshB]

What sparked this inquiry is Ive seen @Leo Gura correct not just multiple mods but countless amounts of other people about deep and core metaphysical topics about Awakening. Denying many of the things he teaches.

I have a deep desire to understand and pursue Truth at the highest level. And want my understanding of Truth to be pure and direct. 

The biggest thing I lean towards accomplishing this is Radical Open-mindedness, direct experience, and not knowing.

But I tend to notice I have a bias towards Leo's answers. I have had a fair amount of Awakening myself and have validated dozens if not more of Leo's answers. So I could say with certainty Leo knows what he is doing, guiding everything in the right direction. 

So the real question is without blindly grapling onto Leo's words, how do you navigate you're understanding of reality while remaining humble and intergral? So one does not develop this arrogant attitude but still fundamentally integrating the Absolute nature of Being/Self/Authority/Experience?

As well as cutting out the middle man and going straight to God for your answers. 

And to not fall into the trap of you got it when in fact you don't.

Edited 5 hours ago by JoshB

[Leo Gura]

37 minutes ago, JoshB said:

So the real question is without blindly grapling onto Leo's words, how do you navigate you're understanding of reality while remaining humble and intergral?

You focus your intent on genuine understanding and you study your direct experience and make observations about it.

This isn't about my words. This is about you making a deep study of your own experience of Mind.

I just share with you things you can observe within yourself if you bother to look.

Edited 4 hours ago by Leo Gura

[JoshB]

2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You focus your intent on genuine understanding and you study your direct experience and make observations about it.

This isn't about my words. This is about you making a deep study of your own experience of Mind.

I just share with you things you can observe within yourself if you bother to look.

Ofc this is what I was getting at and is where my focus is at, the question was more so of how? How can I do a better job of it? 

How does one listen to the new radical things you teach whilst maintaining what you shared just now? 

[Leo Gura]

@JoshB Give a concrete example of what you are struggling with.

[JoshB]

I got you @Leo Gura

I have realized the Absolute nature of Being/Self as God and that Mind/Conciousness is Absolute. As well as Imagination/ Authority as Absolute. So ultimately only I can realize what God is because I am God. 

So really the deepest understanding of reality comes from within. Because to Be is to Understand. 

But then from the relative level of things,  you for example share some new profound insight. How do I mesh that with the absolute nature of mind? 

Its like being open to new things while fundamentally recognizing the sovereignty of conciousness. 

Hopefully this makes sense 

[JoshB]

Its taking responsibility for your own understanding of awakening and reality whilst being open to other people's explanations of awakening 

 

Edited 3 hours ago by JoshB

[Leo Gura]

I hunt for juicy insights from others, and if I find one, I use it to grow my own web of understanding.

That's the process. You need to test that the insight is valid and aligns with experience and the rest of your understanding.

[Yimpa]

Fuck up, fuck up fuck up until it breaks you.

That's my path, given my history with trauma. It works for me, that is my unique path given my history. Copy and pasting the Teacher to a T is a big mistake.

Edited 3 hours ago by Yimpa

[JoshB]

19 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I hunt for juicy insights from others, and if I find one, I use it to grow my own web of understanding.

That's the process. You need to test that the insight is valid and aligns with experience and the rest of your understanding.

Well whats your process for seeing if a insight is good to begin with and then trying to mesh it into your understanding of reality? 

And also I'm concious that self is other so then why seek insight externally to begin with? From the absolute pov it makes no sense. Even if you derive an insight from someone else. That entire process is all occurring within conciousness. Its almost like you can only encapsulate insight from others from the relative. Which seems illusionary vs absolute understanding which is Being. 

Ultimately I am you so isnt this entire conversation just the talking of myself? 

Edited 3 hours ago by JoshB

[JoshB]

I guess you could say I'm trying to intergrate the Absolute into the now realized relative of me vs other

[JoshB]

Im integrating the realization im imagining and am absolutely everyone and everything. And am the only tjing that exists. And then coming back into the relative as Josh and maintaining survival in that form. 

[Hojo]

@JoshBYour brain will tell you when it happens. Self are others but you are a self too a little other like them. The ultimate you is you and everyone. As if the universe has a point of view and you as that point of view has lived as everyone. Even you. So its not 'your' solipsism its the solipsism of everyone.

Edited 3 hours ago by Hojo

[Leo Gura]

@JoshB It is like you are asking how to walk. The answer is you just try and you'll figure it out.

You have to spend 1000s of hours just contemplating every bit of reality, piecing things together.

Edited 3 hours ago by Leo Gura

[JoshB]

Yeah thats the background of what im inquiring. Being still gives rise to all others 

3 minutes ago, Hojo said:

@JoshBYour brain will tell you when it happens. Self are others but you are a self too a little other like them. The ultimate you is you and everyone.

 

[Yimpa]

27 minutes ago, JoshB said:

I guess you could say I'm trying to intergrate the Absolute into the now realized relative of me vs other

From me vs other to me and other.

Bam.

Edited 3 hours ago by Yimpa

[JoshB]

7 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@JoshB It is like you are asking how to walk. The answer is you just try and you'll figure it out.

You have to spend 1000s of hours just contemplating every bit of reality, piecing things together.

"Babies primarily teach themselves to walk by imitating others and through trial-and-error" 

Why not just teach yourself why listen to you or what anyone says? Now I'm framing it as a hypothetical. Why not just expand your identity to include all others and just teach yourself? 

 

[JoshB]

Ive been deeply contemplating Reality and God for over 7 years. Its exhausting im tired of relying on others for answers. And being told who or what I am. Even by you @Leo Gura . I have this insane desire to realize just realize Truth for Truth sakes. And it feels like all these imagined others are such a bottleneck in this process . I hate the idea that anyone or anything can impose any limit on my Omnipotence or omniscience. When my intent is Absolute Good and Understanding.

I dont feel loved by anyone in my personal life but fundamentally realize the infinite metaphysical love of God as Being in Everything. 

Edited 2 hours ago by JoshB

[Majed]

@Leo Gura 

16 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You have to spend 1000s of hours just contemplating every bit of reality, piecing things together.

This can be misleading. You don't have to literally just sit and contemplate. At first you do that, after some months and years, contemplation becomes natural, it's like your mind start downloading insights spontaneously, without you putting effort in it. 

[JoshB]

15 minutes ago, Yimpa said:

From me vs other to me and other.

Bam.

Thats not the issue at hand 

[Davino]

For me, the way I approach all of this is by starting with metaphysics. Before anything else, I had to figure out—truly, totally, and absolutely—what metaphysics is. What is the ontology of reality? What is reality itself?

In my experience, that’s actually much easier than epistemology. Epistemology—the attempt to understand, interpret, and make sense of reality—is messy. It’s full of traps, distortions, self-deceptions, shifting frameworks, and constant revisions. It’s complicated and unstable. You’re always refining, correcting, evolving your models. It becomes an ordeal in itself.

Metaphysics, by contrast, IS direct. It’s immediate consciousness. It’s right here, right now. You’re awake to it. You realize it. You are it. There’s no mediation—it’s identity, It's oneness.

So my method has been this: I prioritize metaphysical awakening first. I become absolutely conscious of the truth of a given facet of reality. I allow the realization to happen fully.

But then comes the real work.

Because one thing is to awaken—to have the realization. Another thing entirely is to understand what that realization means. What does it entail? How does it ramify? How does it restructure your entire mental architecture—your network of assumptions, your conceptual framework, your lived understanding of reality?

That part is deeply human. Messy. Slippery.

So I went all in on metaphysics. I put all my chips there, aiming for absolute understanding: omniscience from the standpoint of Infinite consciousness.

Then, when I return to the human domain—the finite mind, which is like a bubble within infinite consciousness—I contemplate. Again and again. I revisit the insight from my current baseline state of consciousness and try to make sense of it conceptually.

Once a contemplation feels coherent and stable, I test it. I look for its limits. And then, during another awakening, I immerse my human understanding back into that higher consciousness to try to break it—to expose blind spots, distortions, and ceilings. Each time, I attempt to reach a higher level of holism.

In the end, though, epistemology remains what it is: trying to hold a cup of water from the full ocean. The human brain—this skull-bound structure—is attempting to polish itself into a pristine diamond mirror that reflects the totality of reality. You keep refining, removing blind spots, increasing clarity, holism and intelligence. 

That’s how I approach it, at least. I hope it offers something of value to you.