I disagree with the forum

[Carl-Richard]

50 minutes ago, bazera said:

Sounds like a slavery with extra steps 😂

Nothing like working a job.

If I wasn't made to cook at 12, I wouldn't be this absolute master chef I am today 🔪🍴🍌🍆😝

Edited 5 hours ago by Carl-Richard

[Natasha Tori Maru]

@Carl-Richard was going to note that proposing kids help out with LOOKING AFTER THEMSELVES is a good habit to be instilling into them - but felt it was a bit obvious 😂😂😂

[bazera]

Yeah I wish my parents instilled more healthy habits in me, I had to do that on my own later in life after 20 years old.

But many guys don't and they get a wife, and all the things that mothers did for them (cook, clean, laundry, etc), now expect from a wife. That's pathetic.

Edited 5 hours ago by bazera

[Lyubov]

If the man is working full time and supporting the entire family financially he shouldn’t have to lift a single finger for anything else. That is if has the entire financial burden. 

[bazera]

@Lyubov So he shouldn't wash his dirty plate after dinner if he is the only provider financially?

[Lyubov]

15 minutes ago, bazera said:

@Lyubov So he shouldn't wash his dirty plate after dinner if he is the only provider financially?

We don’t have to split hairs. Obviously there’s manners that any person should have that are basically unspoken rules of any relationship. 

[WonderSeeker]

4 hours ago, bazera said:

Does he have children?

Integral theory.

3 hours ago, bazera said:

I think having children is a deeply personal choise that depends on so many things. If you are struggling in life, having kids will make it even worse I think. If you have abundance in resources, it's easier choise to make, Elon Musk has like 14 children or something. 

But I'm leaning more towards agreeing with @Eskilon

I like solitude, I don't like children much, I love my alone time and the possibilities that it creates. I think adding a family / child would disrupt that. 

Of course you might argue that adding a huge responsibility can put more pressure on you to develop yourself. That's right, it can. But you might want to spend days in solitude contemplating, figuring stuff out, etc, that you might not be able to do with a child, or at least do in a limited way. You could also take responsibility in some other ways. 

Of course child will give you meaning, but there are other ways to derive meaning out of life, isn't it?

Of course it depends on the person. Once again I'm not saying everyone needs to pump one out. But to think it cannot help one develop both on the ground and in the clouds, directly and indirectly, is wrong I think. And I already talked about the practical stuff that needs to be done so no need to reiterate that.

3 hours ago, bazera said:

As for spirituality, I think you guys are talking from the point after you have some realizations, then rasing a child becomes an expression of something you've realized (love, god, etc).

But what if you're confused as hell, you're struggling to keep up with the practices because you don't see much progress, you're dabbling with psychedelics to figure out stuff, you don't have much realizations to understand what's all these really about, in other words, you are a spiritual noob but want to progress on the path and grok the nature of yourself, and boom --- you have a child. Do you think that child will help with the spiritual aspirations?

I have 2-3 friends around with new born babies (0-12 month olds) and their life is filled with job + raising a child, nothing else, they have no time / energy to engage in other things.

If you're struggling to progress with spiritual stuff, then you're forcing it at the wrong time. One massive key I've discovered in personal development is sticking your finger in the wind and knowing which season you're in (relationships, spirituality, health, career shift, money, etc). 

5 years ago I made insane progress spiritually (in theory, practice, AND results). It was amazing. But today you can't force me to meditate. I do it here and there, sometimes by accident without trying. Other things matter to me right now and require more focused attention. The season to go hard at meditation, contemplation, and psychedelics will come back again, only 10x stronger. (It's a blessing not putting unhealthy pressure on yourself to become fully realized ASAP. Rome wasn't built in a day. I'm seeking a more holistic awakening as an actualized being (which is both an objective and subjective thing), not as a poor person living in mommy's basement, working at McDonalds).

[bazera]

@WonderSeeker

Quote

But to think it cannot help one develop both on the ground and in the clouds, directly and indirectly, is wrong I think. 

Yes of course, I also see having children as huge grown opportunity, if done right, and that's a huge if.

Quote

If you're struggling to progress with spiritual stuff, then you're forcing it at the wrong time. One massive key I've discovered in personal development is sticking your finger in the wind and knowing which season you're in (relationships, spirituality, health, career shift, money, etc). 

Yes sure, realistically you can't go deep in spirituality or relationships for that matter, if your health is not in order, same with money, if you're struggling to pay rent each month and barely getting by, it will affect the relationships and so on.

Yes, having children and family can be considered as one of those growth chapters, but I don't think that is for me. It doesn't excite me when I think about it, there are many other things that excites me as a vision that I'm working towards, but not children.

I'm not sure why that is that way, it has always been like that for my conscious adult life and I'm not sure what could change it.

[WonderSeeker]

1 hour ago, bazera said:

@WonderSeeker

Yes of course, I also see having children as huge grown opportunity, if done right, and that's a huge if.

Yes sure, realistically you can't go deep in spirituality or relationships for that matter, if your health is not in order, same with money, if you're struggling to pay rent each month and barely getting by, it will affect the relationships and so on.

Yes, having children and family can be considered as one of those growth chapters, but I don't think that is for me. It doesn't excite me when I think about it, there are many other things that excites me as a vision that I'm working towards, but not children.

I'm not sure why that is that way, it has always been like that for my conscious adult life and I'm not sure what could change it.

Just preference.

But also...

Go to timestamp 1:37.

Not saying it explains your situation, but it explains a big-picture trend happening in societies in the west and the far east.