Why atrocities in Gaza get defended so much relative to others

[thedoorsareopen]

I do sympathize for those suffering and dying in Palestine. I pray for them, and I think it’s sick how irresponsibly Hamas put their lives in danger. I also question how much human rights they would really have under an Arab regime anyway.

My Arab friends assure me that “human rights” is just meaningless, made up western propaganda, so I guess Arabs don’t need those right? Allah will dictate what their rights truly are.

[Raze]

2 hours ago, thedoorsareopen said:

I do sympathize for those suffering and dying in Palestine. I pray for them, and I think it’s sick how irresponsibly Hamas put their lives in danger. I also question how much human rights they would really have under an Arab regime anyway.

My Arab friends assure me that “human rights” is just meaningless, made up western propaganda, so I guess Arabs don’t need those right? Allah will dictate what their rights truly are.

 

2 hours ago, thedoorsareopen said:

Hamas killed people and knew their actions would get countless more Palestinians killed. Hamas has blood on its hands.

The only people I see in this discussion ever being held responsible are Israel, all worldwide Jews, and the American president. I have never seen anyone in online debates consider what things Palestinians could do differently, or Hamas, or other Arab nations.

The justifications I see for Palestinian violent resistance frame it as a need for Palestinians to hold and recover land, possibly even “take back” Israel, as a part of Arabs’ supposed rightful ownership of the whole Middle East. But when it comes to that greater Arab region’s responsibility to protect or provide humanitarian support to the Palestinians, we pretend they’re all just individual stranger countries. Egypt closed its border tight. Qatar funds Hamas and uses Palestinian lives like disposable chess pieces for power plays.

Here in the US, Arab American month was recognized by the federal government just 20 years after 9/11. Millions of Americans do the emotional labor to welcome Arabs and Muslims into American society.

But the idea of middle eastern Arabs embracing their Palestinian brothers, let alone Israel, is somehow unthinkable. There are so many other ways to resolve this issue than putting 100% of the responsibility on Israel and the US. If Arabs really care primarily about the Palestinian people, then a couple million Palestinians could easily be absorbed into the other Arab countries. And if it’s really about the land, then all parties involved could come to some kind of deal.

But every time there was a deal on the table, the Palestinians rejected it. I heard from Arabs at the time it was because Arabs are in it for the long haul, Islam has existed far longer than this ephemeral United States and western world, and if a few Palestinians have to suffer and die while the Arab world fights its war of attrition on the west, at least their lives were sacrificed for the cause, and they’ll be rewarded in heaven.

This is insanity. 
 

It’s funny to me at this point, the idea of Arabs ever presenting an actual plan for how we can all get along together on this planet, is just unimaginable. Other cultures on this planet do it every day. The idea of a headline like “Arabs lead the way on Middle East interfaith initiative” is somehow an absurd fever dream. But “Arabs attack a music festival,” yep, that’s the one that’s real.

It’s sad. The “debate” on this topic is nothing but sad retreads that go nowhere. The idea of the Arabs ever being like “yknow what? We’re just gonna eat this one because we can see this is causing endless problems and we want to be good global citizens, let’s just take care of the Palestinians ourselves rather than continuing to make it someone else’s problem” or literally ANY other NEW approach to the situation… I see new and innovative approaches to everything, from everyone, all over the globe, all of the time. And this region is just stuck in the same old BS like reruns. What is happening today is exactly like what happened in the 60s, the situation hasn’t progressed at all.

Again your comments show a massive lack of knowledge about the conflict and dehumanizing rhetoric / double standards

Just for starters,

- completely ignoring the peace initiatives supported by Arab states and Palestinians like the Arab peace initiative which I brought up

- complaining only Israel and the US are blamed yet removing all blame from them by ignoring the US vetoing every diplomatic solution at the UN and blaming Hamas for war crimes israel commits, ignoring how the PA ceased armed resistance to Israel yet Israel ramped up violence against West Bank Palestinians

- why is Hamas to blame for killing civilians in response to Israeli occupation and violence, but israel isn’t to blame when they massacre hundreds in bread lines, block food and medicine to starve children, block rescue equipment and destroy 70% of residential infrastructure to leave thousands buried under rubble. It’s a blatant double standard to justify violence against Palestinians.

- blaming Palestinians for arabs collectively and blaming arabs collectively such as suggesting they don’t deserve human rights because of what your random friend said. Some Jews say the holocaust was punishment from god, should we just conclude Jews deserve the holocaust since we are assigning collective blame based on what individuals say? 

- Qatar sent money to Hamas at the direction of Israel because Israel wanted to make Hamas stronger because they were designated terrorists by the US so it would stop israel having to negotiate peace, this was the stated aim. Was your reaction to Oct 7 “israel has blood on its hands for letting settlers attack civilians and funding Hamas to continue it”? 

The Arab states ignore the Palestinians because they don’t want to enable Israel’s war crimes and the US lobbies them to not defend their rights. The US was actually pressuring the Arab states to normalize with Israel without Israel ending its constant violence and occupation of Palestine which spurred Oct 7 to try and stop the world leaving them to permanent occupation. You ignore all of this context to somehow imply because Arabs don’t solve the problem they are blocked from solving Palestinians deserve not having basic human rights.

Really you don’t realize it but you’re exactly the person who would have excused apartheid South Africa and the Jim Crow south. Whatever rationalizations, deflections, and excuses necessary to blame the victims of injustices placed upon them.

Edited 14 hours ago by Raze

[thedoorsareopen]

This is why this topic engenders so much indifference. Every time I try to bring up the 2000 deal that Yasser Arafat walked away from, the pro-Palestine person says no no, it was Palestine who offered the deal and Israel denied it. And then you link some article from a pro-Palestine echo chamber where all the details are reversed. I’m not even saying that I’m not susceptible to such things either but again, this is madness and so boring how intractable it is.

And then the other part is where all Palestinians and Arabs are absolved of their deeds because supposedly Israel is the grand puppet master directing them to do it, again justified by some unverifiable echo chamber conspiracy brain rot.

In every discussion of this topic there are multiple levels of absolving Palestinians and Arabs of agency or responsibility for their actions. The bottom line is the Middle East was about as peaceful as it’s been in my 40 year life, and then Hamas shot up a music festival. They broke the peace. The things you say Israel did that are supposedly equivalent happened AFTER that. Sucker punching some civvies at a music festival in a time of peace is some ugly shit. But when a Palestinian does it, the world treats them like a wounded animal who doesn’t understand their actions and can’t be held accountable for them.

And then you conflate the idea of the Palestinians and Arabs letting Israel live in peace as the same thing as Israel taking over the whole Middle East. No, this is what BORDERS are. One doesn’t have to dominate the other into extinction. But, if you spend decades shooting rockets into your neighbor, you incentivize them to come over and hold your land to try to make you stop.

[Nivsch]

12 hours ago, thedoorsareopen said:

There are so many other ways to resolve this issue than putting 100% of the responsibility on Israel and the US.

True. The responsibility of the other side is also quite significant. Years of brutal terror attacks instilled fear in Israelis and led many of them see the Palestinians as they were a single demonic entity that cannot be trusted.

Edited 4 hours ago by Nivsch

[Breakingthewall]

On 18/2/2026 at 1:53 PM, zazen said:

What do China, Iran and the others have in common for them to be targets? They don't bend the knee to Western imperialism

That's true, but it's funny the fact that no one mentions Chinese oppression of the Uyghurs, who number 30 million and have been Muslim since the 16th century.

China is systematically erasing their identity following a clear and well-defined program, and is declaring Islam a mental illness. The entire Islamic world hates Jews for the abuses they have committed again Palestinian, but no one in the Muslim world says anything about China, which is erasing a Muslim nation from the history. Isn't that interesting?

[Breakingthewall]

12 hours ago, thedoorsareopen said:

Hamas killed people and knew their actions would get countless more Palestinians killed. Hamas has blood on its hands.

The only people I see in this discussion ever being held responsible are Israel, all worldwide Jews, and the American president. I have never seen anyone in online debates consider what things Palestinians could do differently, or Hamas, or other Arab nations.

It's simple. There are people who are left-wing and anti-American, so for them, the US and Israel are always evil incarnate, no matter what. Then there are other people who are right-wing, and for them, Muslims are evil demons and the US and Israel are the forces of good, no matter what. It's like in Lord of the Rings: Sauron is bad, Gandalf is good. It's simple! They are simple people and they like everything to be simple; that's how they feel safe.

In this forum, they lean more to the left because spiritual people tend to be more left-wing, so they support the Palestinians against Israel. It's like supporting a football team, a matter of identity. It's funny because they think they're analyzing reality when what they're really doing is trying to reinforce their identity, but they can't see it because are emotional, that's why they need to reinforce their identity. Its like a circle of, let's say, not objectivity, to be kind 

[Karmadhi]

On 2/27/2026 at 11:06 AM, thedoorsareopen said:

t’s because of two things:

1. Gaza brought this upon themselves with Hamas’s outrageous October 7th attack. This started with their act of violence and violence is being brought back on them.

2. Palestinians have shamelessly called for the genocide of Israel for decades. Then they cry the same is happening to them when their violence has consequences. Palestinians don’t want peace. They want to guilt trip the west into letting them dominate.

In simple terms this is why the Palestinian cause is not very sympathetic! Don’t ask me to sympathize with thugs and violent radicals when their violent radicalism blows back on them!

I am sorry but this is extremly biased and not objective

You clearly have an extreme pro Israeli, anti Palestinian outlook which affects you writting this text full of double-standards

I will deconstruct it for you to explain why I am saying this:

"Gaza brought this upon themselves with Hamas’s outrageous October 7th attack. This started with their act of violence and violence is being brought back on them"

First, there was never true peace between Gaza and Israel, there were always some small scale fighting and every year Gazans were killed by Israel. Not to mention an illegal inhumane siege. No country would call that "peace" but for Gazans it is "good enough" since as long as they do not die in the thousnads "it is all fine". Imagine if Saudi for example killed every year 200-300 Israelis and you call it "peace". 

Also, I can easily easily flip the script and say "Israel brought October 7th upon themselves with their outrageous siege, occupation and bombing of civilians every year". 

"Palestinians have shamelessly called for the genocide of Israel for decades. Then they cry the same is happening to them when their violence has consequences. Palestinians don’t want peace. They want to guilt trip the west into letting them dominate."

This screams of projection. It is the ISRAELIS, especially the current political parties that have been against a Palestinian state for MANY YEARS now. They literally do not consider Palestine to be a place worthy of statehood. Then when they get attacked they cry when their outragous policies have consequences. Israelis dont wqant peace, they keep expanding with the Greater Israel Project. Especially these right wing lunatic governments and illegal settlers. It is Israel that is expanding, not Palestine.

Note: I am not justifying nor endorsing any violence from any side. I am simply flipping the script to show you how biased you are.

Please man if you follow Leo's work try to do some basic contemplation before writting such insanely biased possts. Are you Israeli by any chance? Or a Christian Zionist? Or a white supremacist? Or an islamphobe? Only one of these types of people would write such a thing.

 

[Karmadhi]

4 hours ago, Nivsch said:

True. The responsibility of the other side is also quite significant. Years of brutal terror attacks instilled fear in Israelis and led many of them see the Palestinians as they were a single demonic entity that cannot be trusted.

The West Bank is not that hostile no? I dont get the hate there. The way Israelis treat them is insanely brutal and inhumane and to me it seems much more bully like.

[Nivsch]

19 minutes ago, Karmadhi said:

The West Bank is not that hostile no? I dont get the hate there. The way Israelis treat them is insanely brutal and inhumane and to me it seems much more bully like.

hamas is found there too just weaker due to security cooperation between IDF and the Palestinian authority. This is true there is an abuse of power and corruption that often hurts civilians too.

Edited 3 hours ago by Nivsch

[Raze]

11 hours ago, thedoorsareopen said:

This is why this topic engenders so much indifference. Every time I try to bring up the 2000 deal that Yasser Arafat walked away from, the pro-Palestine person says no no, it was Palestine who offered the deal and Israel denied it. And then you link some article from a pro-Palestine echo chamber where all the details are reversed. I’m not even saying that I’m not susceptible to such things either but again, this is madness and so boring how intractable it is.

And then the other part is where all Palestinians and Arabs are absolved of their deeds because supposedly Israel is the grand puppet master directing them to do it, again justified by some unverifiable echo chamber conspiracy brain rot.

In every discussion of this topic there are multiple levels of absolving Palestinians and Arabs of agency or responsibility for their actions. The bottom line is the Middle East was about as peaceful as it’s been in my 40 year life, and then Hamas shot up a music festival. They broke the peace. The things you say Israel did that are supposedly equivalent happened AFTER that. Sucker punching some civvies at a music festival in a time of peace is some ugly shit. But when a Palestinian does it, the world treats them like a wounded animal who doesn’t understand their actions and can’t be held accountable for them.

And then you conflate the idea of the Palestinians and Arabs letting Israel live in peace as the same thing as Israel taking over the whole Middle East. No, this is what BORDERS are. One doesn’t have to dominate the other into extinction. But, if you spend decades shooting rockets into your neighbor, you incentivize them to come over and hold your land to try to make you stop.

Like I said, you’ve consumed propaganda and don’t understand basic facts about the conflict leading to your close minded view and justification of war crimes.

I didn’t link to any echo chamber, the Arab peace initiative is a public offer on the table. The former head of shin bet admitted they’d have peace if they accepted it. You don’t even know what this is and just act like it doesn’t exist because it conflicts with your predetermined bias.

The deal Arafat walked away from was calling for israel annexing large swaths of Palestinian land and controlling borders, airspace, and having a military base on the territory and the right to invade any time, it was permanent occupation, the American negotiator themselves said they’d reject this deal and israel refused to negotiate further. 

Israel has been consuming the West Bank, which hasn’t had a rocket attack in decades. Stop ignoring this point, explain to me how installing religious extremists onto Palestinian land and letting them attack civilians is just because Israel wants self defense?

Israel itself considers blockades acts of war, they had Gaza under blockade, they had killed dozens of children in the West Bank that year before Oct 7. What you say is the opposite, the world ignores this,  then when Palestinians resist it you say they started it and use that to justify further war crimes.

Israel doesn’t have official borders for this reason, because their goal is expansion.

You continue to ignore the question. If israel wants peace why did they expand settlements and fund Hamas to weaken the PA after the PA gave up armed resistance? Why do they reject the Arab peace initiative.

Edited 1 hour ago by Raze

[thedoorsareopen]

Quote

First, there was never true peace between Gaza and Israel, there were always some small scale fighting and every year Gazans were killed by Israel.

You say, conveniently leaving out the massive years long Intifadas the Palestinians waged.

Quote

This screams of projection. It is the ISRAELIS, especially the current political parties that have been against a Palestinian state for MANY YEARS now. 

BRUH. The Arab world at large has famously for decades denied the very existence of Israel and their official stated foreign policy towards it was to "wipe Israel off the map." "From the river to the sea" is literally a call for genocide of the Israeli state.

This is what I'm talking about. This debate is boring because it's just people projecting onto you while literally accusing you of projection.

For the record, I'm not pro-Israel. As someone who doesn't like organized religion much, it doesn't strike me as a very happy place. But at least it's ostensibly democraticish, and it's got its shit together. The solution is for there to be two states that live in peace side by side. But from where I'm standing, having a massive occupied belligerent population living side by side is not a stable situation and as someone who lives on another continent, I would like to see it get resolved somehow. I would like to see Palestinians and Arabs put their big boy pants on and join us in the 21st century rather than acting like their human rights deficient society is just going to war of attrition us back to the stone age.

[Raze]

6 minutes ago, thedoorsareopen said:

You say, conveniently leaving out the massive years long Intifadas the Palestinians waged.

 

The first intifada was after decades of occupation with no end in site. Why do you keep acting like Palestinians revolt out of nowhere?
 

6 minutes ago, thedoorsareopen said:

You say, conveniently leaving out the massive years long Intifadas the Palestinians waged.

BRUH. The Arab world at large has famously for decades denied the very existence of Israel and their official stated foreign policy towards it was to "wipe Israel off the map." "From the river to the sea" is literally a call for genocide of the Israeli state.

This is what I'm talking about. This debate is boring because it's just people projecting onto you while literally accusing you of projection.

For the record, I'm not pro-Israel. As someone who doesn't like organized religion much, it doesn't strike me as a very happy place. But at least it's ostensibly democraticish, and it's got its shit together. The solution is for there to be two states that live in peace side by side. But from where I'm standing, having a massive occupied belligerent population living side by side is not a stable situation and as someone who lives on another continent, I would like to see it get resolved somehow. I would like to see Palestinians and Arabs put their big boy pants on and join us in the 21st century rather than acting like their human rights deficient society is just going to war of attrition us back to the stone age.

- actually the PLO initially called for a equal binational state from the river to the sea 

- the ruling party of Israel also calls for Israeli control from the river to the sea, which is the destruction of Palestine 

- once again, for the third time, the Arab states offered full normalization with Israel if they ended the occupation, instead israel expanded settlements and funded Hamas. 

- Israel keeps Palestinian under an apartheid, somehow accepting them to accept that as “join us in the 21st century” is like saying South Africans should be modern and have accepted apartheid. 

Edited 1 hour ago by Raze

[thedoorsareopen]

Quote

once again, for the third time, the Arab states offered full normalization with Israel if they ended the occupation, instead israel expanded settlements and funded Hamas.

So for the rest of this discussion I'm going to give responsibility for Hamas to the Palestinians, who democratically voted for them as their chosen representatives, and ignore your attempts to continue to infantilize them and their decisions, and claim Israel is secretly controlling everything.

Quote

once again, for the third time, the Arab states offered full normalization with Israel if they ended the occupation, instead israel expanded settlements and funded Hamas.

Literally the only faction in this whole situation that opposed the Arab Peace Initiative WAS HAMAS. BRUHHHHHH.

[Raze]

7 minutes ago, thedoorsareopen said:

So for the rest of this discussion I'm going to give responsibility for Hamas to the Palestinians, who democratically voted for them as their chosen representatives, and ignore your attempts to continue to infantilize them and their decisions, and claim Israel is secretly controlling everything.

Literally the only faction in this whole situation that opposed the Arab Peace Initiative WAS HAMAS. BRUHHHHHH.

- when Hamas was elected they offered a long term ceasefire in exchange for Israel ending the occupation, rather than even negotiate this Israel attempted a coup then blockaded Gaza purposefully to punish the civilian population. Most of Gazas residents weren’t born or didn’t vote for Hamas during the last election. Currently Hamas said they’d disarm to the PA, the PA agreed to two states and ceased armed resistance to Israel, yet Israel refuses to let this happen. 

- so will you stop infantalizing Israelis? They voted in Likud multiple times, likud refused to end the war it waged on Gaza through blockades and strikes, and even sent funds to Hamas while reducing their own Gaza border security because they wanted more forces to help illegal settlers stealing land. By your own standards you should say they deserve Oct 7 and you don’t feel bad for them. But you won’t because unlike Palestinians you don’t accept dehumanization of Israelis, it’s just Palestinians who you think somehow should accept constant violence and oppression from Israel.

- notice how you’re ignoring the West Bank because the apartheid and colonization of millions of people conflicts with your Israel can do no wrong narrative

- False, israel rejected it. Hamas also wasn’t a governing power at that point so their rejection didn’t matter much. 

Edited 1 hour ago by Raze

[zazen]

11 hours ago, thedoorsareopen said:

The bottom line is the Middle East was about as peaceful as it’s been in my 40 year life, and then Hamas shot up a music festival.

There's literally been a war on terror, that turned into a war OF terror - the past decades in the Middle East. Bottom line is to read the entire page (context) and not just the bottom.

11 hours ago, thedoorsareopen said:

And then you conflate the idea of the Palestinians and Arabs letting Israel live in peace as the same thing as Israel taking over the whole Middle East. No, this is what BORDERS are. One doesn’t have to dominate the other into extinction

Israel / US seems to feel the need to dominate the region. US more so for imperialistic reasons, Israel more so for security reasons but that are maximalist in their demands and only end up making them more insecure as a consequence. That hawksih security doctrine wouldn't be possible if it wasn't for the impunity they enjoy under the US superpowers umbrella.