TRIGGER WARNING, Uncomfortable experience about Dating

[Natasha Tori Maru]

8 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

This is just not how most women behave. Women are loyal to a fault. You have to do something seriously off for a woman to replace you once she has fallen for you.

This is my lived experience also. Based off 25 years of my own relationships, and seeing the relationships of my friends, family and associates. In concrete reality, not any artificial online sphere. Society.

The 'hypergamy' of women being peddled is all from social media statistics and dating apps where there is a 75/25% split of men/women, respectively. Social media and red pill proponents take this statistic, that is created from the inequal split of users sex, and extrapolate the data onto reality. Behaviour under artificial scarcity is simply not real-world mating behaviour. It subtly disempowers men with disillusionment/resentment. 

It is just classic category error dressed up as data being sold as 'female hypergamy' as a result of this platform-distorted behaviour.

Obviously there are going to be some turd women in the bucket who WILL do this. 

But they are the minority.

[Jannes]

1 hour ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

This is my lived experience also. Based off 25 years of my own relationships, and seeing the relationships of my friends, family and associates. In concrete reality, not any artificial online sphere. Society.

The 'hypergamy' of women being peddled is all from social media statistics and dating apps where there is a 75/25% split of men/women, respectively. Social media and red pill proponents take this statistic, that is created from the inequal split of users sex, and extrapolate the data onto reality. Behaviour under artificial scarcity is simply not real-world mating behaviour. It subtly disempowers men with disillusionment/resentment. 

It is just classic category error dressed up as data being sold as 'female hypergamy' as a result of this platform-distorted behaviour.

Obviously there are going to be some turd women in the bucket who WILL do this. 

But they are the minority.

NO, I dont subscripe to any toxic manosphere. Its my own experience only. 

But I like to hear that from other peoples perspective this sounds unusual, which makes me think that my perspective is partially limited.

[Natasha Tori Maru]

5 minutes ago, Jannes said:

NO, I dont subscripe to any toxic manosphere. Its my own experience only. 

To be clear - I was not accusing you of subscribing to this ideology. Merely expounding on how it can perpetuate and be amplified due to other sources, and act as a confirmation bias when we have experiences with bad people.

Didn't mean to imply it was an idea you picked up, as it seemed clear you were speaking from experience 🙏

The converse is also true - women can pick up hypergamy from these online apps and social media echo chambers. It can make them feel justified and feed ego in negative, narcissistic ways. This does not mean it is their natural state/behaviour. Group think.

Edited 18 hours ago by Natasha Tori Maru

[Jannes]

10 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

To be clear - I was not accusing you of subscribing to this ideology. Merely expounding on how it can perpetuate and be amplified due to other sources, and act as a confirmation bias when we have experiences with bad people.

Didn't mean to imply it was an idea you picked up, as it seemed clear you were speaking from experience 🙏

The converse is also true - women can pick up hypergamy from these online apps and social media echo chambers. It can make them feel justified and feed ego in negative, narcissistic ways. This does not mean it is their natural state/behaviour. Group think.

Oh okay -- all good.

[Joshe]

16 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Women are loyal to a fault. You have to do something seriously off for a woman to replace you once she has fallen for you.

Your view on women is biased. It's simply false to say that "women" are loyal to a fault. You're making the same mistake you're claiming OP is making but in the opposite direction.

Loyalty is contingent on how fulfilled they are. You don't have to do anything seriously wrong for them to be disloyal. It depends on their personality, which obviously varies from woman to woman. There's the full spectrum of attachment styles, novelty-seeking tendencies, impulse control, etc, etc. 

Ride or die types are not very common. Maybe 10-15% if I'm being generous. And it's not because they're "loyal" and choosing you over everyone else. These types are loyal to a fault because of how they're wired - dependency, seeking security, etc. Being devoted in relationships is just who they are, but most women aren't wired this way.

16 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I have never had a problem with girlfriends being disloyal.

That you know of lol. 

You gotta keep them long enough for the novelty to wear off - when the boredom and resentment phase hits. Make it to this phase and your odds of being cheated on skyrocket.

Women will remain loyal so long as they're fulfilled, which is a part time job, at minimum.

Edited 12 hours ago by Joshe

[Joshe]

This is the average woman: genuinely attached while things are good, but with an always running background process that evaluates the relationship against alternatives and unmet needs. Not consciously scheming or looking for a trade in, but also not unconditionally devoted. She can cheat on him for something as simple as her man is too nice, too boring, etc. 

If wants/needs go unmet for too long and other options appear, she gone!

Edited 12 hours ago by Joshe

[Miguel1]

The other side of the this conversation is that I have been with countless girls cheating on their partners.

It happens far more often than you would believe.

Dating is also different in 2026 vs 2016 and 2006.

Edited 12 hours ago by Miguel1

[Natasha Tori Maru]

Cheating is definitely a constant, tale as old as time for people.

[Natasha Tori Maru]

@Joshe I may have read it wrong, but I thought when Leo said:

'You have to do something seriously off for a woman to replace you once she has fallen for you.'

It meant unmet needs? 

That could just be my assumption 🤪

Maybe that's the core of the issue - both sexes are not getting needs met. A change as technology has taken over. It might explain modern dating patterns.

Edited 11 hours ago by Natasha Tori Maru

[Leo Gura]

If a man does not meet her needs, yes, she will replace him.

But it is silly to expect otherwise. It is your job to know her needs and satisfy them within reason.

[ExploringReality]

5 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

If a man does not meet her needs, yes, she will replace him.

But it is silly to expect otherwise. It is your job to know her needs and satisfy them within reason.

What if they have a mental disorder like narscissm and BPD? 

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, ExploringReality said:

What if they have a mental disorder like narscissm and BPD? 

Then you are in trouble.

[nerdspeak]

Those of you generalizing from experience I’d also ask, how old are these girls/women?

Because women in their teens and early 20s are going to be more unstable, unsure of what they want, and attracted to the next shiny thing just because of age. And lack the communication skills and life experience to negotiate. But, this is true of most men that age too. 

[Jannes]

14 minutes ago, nerdspeak said:

Those of you generalizing from experience I’d also ask, how old are these girls/women?

Because women in their teens and early 20s are going to be more unstable, unsure of what they want, and attracted to the next shiny thing just because of age. And lack the communication skills and life experience to negotiate. But, this is true of most men that age too. 

Basically all in their early twenties, with older women I cant tell as I have less experience with them.  

[Kid A]

10 minutes ago, Jannes said:

Basically all in their early twenties, with older women I cant tell as I have less experience with them.  

Well, that explains a lot! Now I suddenly understand why I find so many posts about women on this forum so unrelatable. I have minimal experience with women that young. 

[Natasha Tori Maru]

57 minutes ago, nerdspeak said:

Those of you generalizing from experience I’d also ask, how old are these girls/women?

Because women in their teens and early 20s are going to be more unstable, unsure of what they want, and attracted to the next shiny thing just because of age. And lack the communication skills and life experience to negotiate. But, this is true of most men that age too. 

Great point. 

You don't know yourself as well. You cannot yet communicate your needs (or know them) with clarity. You mistake the heady thrill of lust for love. You can be afraid of being hurt, lacking the confidence to know you will recover from anything. 

Sometimes something feels wrong in a relationship, or a need isn't being met. And we aren't clear enough to enunciate it, or even know what is wrong. 

So naturally people look outside themselves to find what is wrong. Which can lead to cheating or immature behaviour. 

I wonder how much the comparitive nature of social media feeds into the 'grass is always greener' mentality that creeps in. Past generations simply would not have been swamped with images of perfection and finely curated lives in current volumes. 

I am 40 this year. I grew up without social media - then with. I saw both sides in a way. But I can never be sure that anything is directly causative. 

I can see trends and changes in behaviour, though.

[nerdspeak]

1 hour ago, Jannes said:

Basically all in their early twenties 

Bingo.

As the billboards used to say to gay teens on the NYC subway: “It gets better.”