How Neurodiversity can lead to narcissistic Coping

[Cred]

Being neurodivergent (ND) causes the person to develop insecurities because they don't fall into the socially accepted way, a valuable person is defined. The worst way (in terms of survival) to cope with low self-esteem is with self loathing, which leads to suicidality. A step-up, but still suboptimal, is self-pity which leads to depression. 

One way to function with low self-esteem is with denial. If you ignore the evidence of your low self-worth and instead put yourself on a pedestal and put everyone else down, you will deceive yourself out of your depression. One completely random and unrelated-to–anything–at-all-way this could be done is by declaring stuff like: "I am god, I have seen truth everyone else is sheep". 

This is the narcissistic way of dealing with low self-esteem. I don't necessarily factually disagree when people here say stuff like "I am the only one who cares about truth everyone is below me". I'm rather asking why it is important to you to see yourself as above everyone else.

I want to emphasize this point: All the self acceptance mediation shadow work call it what you want is not reaching the root of the problem, which is that people see you as less valuable. Phrases like: "They are not productive, they are on forums all day" is language, discriminative of ND people and comes from a framework of wage labor (communism has once again entered the chat). 

If you want to function without a narcissistic way of coping, you will need to learn precisely in what way society is wrong. And this only works by learning about ND (also anti-capitalist theory. Communism Post is coming soon)

Edited 7 hours ago by Cred
Improved language and bold font

[Joshe]

3 hours ago, Cred said:

One way to function with low self-esteem is with denial. If you ignore the evidence of your low self-worth and instead put yourself on a pedestal and put everyone else down, you will deceive yourself out of your depression.

I feel like this post would be more powerful if you could delve into the mechanics of this. You could probably articulate it better than me but I’ll stream of consciousness some things:

When I was younger I was rejected because I was different, and I’ve always known I was different, and I’ve put a lot of thought into that difference, and experienced a ton of negative emotions about it, but have converted them to positive to make life easier. 

Society rejects me, I reject them. And what is my rationale for rejecting them? They are blind and cannot see clearly - they can’t see all the things I can, they’re ignorant. This is true, but it’s still a defense mechanism - it masks our pain and turns us is into justified assholes towards our fellow humans. Its a heavy, unconscious burden. 

Deconstruct “I’m the one who can see” or whatever your rationale is for rejecting “normies”. It’s not simply “they don’t value truth and truth is my highest value, therefore I’m incompatible with normies”. This is post-hoc rationalization for something much deeper. 

Edited 4 hours ago by Joshe

[LordFall]

Quote

 

I want to emphasize this point: All the self acceptance mediation shadow work call it what you want is not reaching the root of the problem, which is that people see you as less valuable. Phrases like: "They are not productive, they are on forums all day" is language, discriminative of ND people and comes from a framework of wage labor (communism has once again entered the chat). 

If you want to function without a narcissistic way of coping, you will need to learn precisely in what way society is wrong. And this only works by learning about ND (also anti-capitalist theory. Communism Post is coming soon)

 

Well put. Understanding economics is valuable in understanding socialzation. You must offer other people value in order for them to value you. This has been true in our cavemen days and is true now.

You don't need to be valuable to EVERYONE, just the people who you care about having in your life. 

The capitalist system is cold in displaying this truth but it is a truth nonetheless. You can offer plenty of value whether you're neurodivergent or not. Most people are lazy and entitled though whether they're neurotypical is irrelevant in the matter. 

[Hojo]

5 hours ago, Cred said:

Being neurodivergent (ND) causes the person to develop insecurities because they don't fall into the socially accepted way, a valuable person is defined. The worst way (in terms of survival) to cope with low self-esteem is with self loathing, which leads to suicidality. A step-up, but still suboptimal, is self-pity which leads to depression. 

One way to function with low self-esteem is with denial. If you ignore the evidence of your low self-worth and instead put yourself on a pedestal and put everyone else down, you will deceive yourself out of your depression. One completely random and unrelated-to–anything–at-all-way this could be done is by declaring stuff like: "I am god, I have seen truth everyone else is sheep". 

This is the narcissistic way of dealing with low self-esteem. I don't necessarily factually disagree when people here say stuff like "I am the only one who cares about truth everyone is below me". I'm rather asking why it is important to you to see yourself as above everyone else.

I want to emphasize this point: All the self acceptance mediation shadow work call it what you want is not reaching the root of the problem, which is that people see you as less valuable. Phrases like: "They are not productive, they are on forums all day" is language, discriminative of ND people and comes from a framework of wage labor (communism has once again entered the chat). 

If you want to function without a narcissistic way of coping, you will need to learn precisely in what way society is wrong. And this only works by learning about ND (also anti-capitalist theory. Communism Post is coming soon)

This whole post is a massive contradiction. They have low self esteem but view themselves as God, the highest form.

A neurodivergent is beaten and bullied into the ground by normies until they give up on life and when you do that you are rewarded by God, by God revealing itself to you. You think seeing God is a cope but you have no idea what you are talking about. Its real its a real physical and metaphysical event in the life of someone who has fully given up. Its not narcissist its the truth of reality.

You are God too but you wont ever see it by judging people. A neurodivergent dosent judge people they get judged non stop by normies and then give up after 32 years and God shows them that they are God so they dont kill themselves.

You dont know what a narcissist is and you dont know what God is but you are making claims about what they are.

If you notice people who awaken, normally awaken around the same age, around their 30s. This isnt an accident its a design.

Seeing God isnt a cope, its a reward by God for never judging anyone and being judged all your life.

If you dont judge and 'carry your cross' (taking the weight of others judgements without fighting back, thinking you are the problem) you awaken.

Edited 2 hours ago by Hojo

[Cred]

CONTEXT: The "you" in the original Post is a mixture of @Hojo, Leo and of course, the reader. It is a reply that I figured, would be suitable to be its own thread. Hojo replied:

"@Cred Its not narcissist its finally sticking up for yourself. The neurotypical bully the neurodivergent their entire lives. Isnt it narcissist to tell a neurodivergent they are messed up in some way? Science is bullying an untypical brain structure. Science is the narcissist. There isnt a problem with a neurodivergent, its who they are the way God intended.

'All the self acceptance mediation shadow work call it what you want is not reaching the root of the problem, which is that people see you as less valuable.' This quote is narcissist. There isnt a problem. The problem is you seeing others that are different as a negative. Maybe you have the problem.

God structures your brain. A neurotypical could never understand this."

and then

"@Cred Why do neurodivergent people need coping mechanism? Because they are being bullied, relentlessly for being themselves."

Hojo, I hope you are okay with this approach. I want everything relevant to be in one place.

Edited 2 hours ago by Cred

[Hojo]

@Cred Thats fine, God is doing everything in reality. God is creating your life from the first person perspective, objective reality is a ?. The ? is God.

Edited 1 hour ago by Hojo

[Hojo]

@CredThis is what is happening in science based reality that people dont understand. God (objective reality) isnt being directly perceived. Light is being shown into the eyes and projected onto a screen in the brain. You are witnessing the screen in the brain not objective reality. What you see in reality is a projected hologram of actual reality. When you look at the sky your 'IRL' eyes are actually behind the sky. When you see a person your 'IRL' eyes are actually behind the person. When you read this your eyes are behind the monitor and behind the wall that you are reading this on.

The ? can never be known to you. And whatever is being projected into the brain, (the qualities, the neurodivergent, the personalities) are being completely made up and judged the way you want. You are completely alone in your own mind.
 

Edited 1 hour ago by Hojo

[Cred]

@Joshe @LordFall <3
 

@Hojo I agree with most of what you said. It seems like you have misunderstood me. We are 95% on the same page. My point is very nuanced. I'm pondering for an answer.  

[Hojo]

@Cred You are saying neurodivergent see people as less valuable and are Coping that they are God. I am completely disagreeing with that. What am I misunderstanding?

I am also am disagreeing with your shadow work statement. When a neurodivergent gets bullied they give peices of themselves away. They do shadow work to get these peices of qualia back that they gave away to people that bullied them.

I have a feeling you have never done shadow work, saw God or experienced anything that you are writing about.

When a neurodivergent gets relentlessly bullied they lose qualia from life. Eventually they lose all good qualia from life and are left with the negative qualia. They burn through these negative qualia and reach the bottom of themselves which is God.

Edited 1 hour ago by Hojo

[Cred]

Again I agree with everything you said. However, you were criticizing the neurotypical perspective I gave as if it was my perspective. It is not.

20 minutes ago, Cred said:

There isnt a problem

You are 100% correct with this statement. My point, and again, this is nuanced, is that there is a difference in the state of consciousness between saying "there isn't a problem" and "THERE ISN'T A PROBLEM".

You will see psychologists say things like "everyone is a little bit narcissistic" or "a little bit of narcissism is healthy" and I agree with these statements. I would not make this point if this wasn't the super-duper–anti-self–deception–truth community. 

Again my point is that from the perspective of an ND who is not educated on ND which means they have a conventional understanding on human value, there are only these Options: Self loathe and suicidality, self-pity and depression or delusion and functionality. Out of these, the third one is most beneficial for happiness and survival.

My claim is that when people who are unaware that they are ND say "I'm good enough" they don't actually believe what they say bc they don't have enough evidence. This leads to friction, frustration and delusion. 

Phrased differently, if you try to practice self acceptance and don't learn precisely why the conventional definition of a purposeful life is limited, you will always have a voice in the back of your head telling you "what if they are right?"

[Hojo]

@Cred The voice in your head is a fiction and wouldn't exist without being bullied by neurotypicals.

You actually want to get depressed and suicidal. These are human qualia you need to burn through. You just don't want to do anything about it you want to feel them.

Edited 1 hour ago by Hojo

[Cred]

If you are not deeply educated on ND your view of what constitutes a good life is completely misguided. Here are some Examples of conventional truths that don't apply to ND people.

• If you work more than 40 hours a week you are hard-working and if you work less then you're lazy
• Everyone has the choice whether to follow their passion or focus on (financial) security
• Follow your passion is bad advice
• If you live a life as a dog walker and furry porn fan fiction writer, then you are a looser
• Why would you read obscure tibetan spiritual scriptures if you could instead come with to the club and dance to Pitbull you weirdo

[Cred]

3 minutes ago, Hojo said:

You actually want to get depressed and suicidal. These are human qualia you need to burn through. You just don't want to do anything about it you want to feel them.

The fourth option is to learn about ND and be unapologetically yourself. If you know exactly why you get to be yourself and why you don't have any other options, you can live in peace. Living in peace as an ND can mean to cut a lot of neurotypical people out of your life. If you have a conventional framework of morality, a lot of these measures will not be possible without internal friction.

[Hojo]

@Cred If you dont go through the negative emotions you won't awaken. Its not about cutting people out or judging people its about emptying your cup of all qualia. If you cut the people out you will never awaken you need to feel bad imo.

 

And furry fanatic writers are fkin losers.

Its important to have a job and work.

Edited 1 hour ago by Hojo

[theleelajoker]

Can't say for sure how it is for others, but I pretty much with @Hojo : Don't do anything about it, go through the experience. In the end was good for me to go though a very tough period. Don't know if you can awaken without going through the "negative" emotions. I could not experience significant changes before I did.

Also, I would not make it so much about ND or not it's just a story. People experiences reality different, that's it. Rest is a story from a voice in your head that's not "you"

 

[theleelajoker]

17 minutes ago, Cred said:

If you are not deeply educated on ND your view of what constitutes a good life is completely misguided. Here are some Examples of conventional truths that don't apply to ND people.

• If you work more than 40 hours a week you are hard-working and if you work less then you're lazy
• Everyone has the choice whether to follow their passion or focus on (financial) security
• Follow your passion is bad advice
• If you live a life as a dog walker and furry porn fan fiction writer, then you are a looser
• Why would you read obscure tibetan spiritual scriptures if you could instead come with to the club and dance to Pitbull you weirdo

Just assume you know nothing, don't believe nothing but your own experience and every day take an explorer mindset and find out what's true for you right now in this particular situation.

Be prepared to change that "truth" fundamentally the next day.

Repeat.

[Joseph Maynor]

To follow anything is kinda dodgy.  But following your inspiration to create to me is solid much more so than following your passion.  And you're not always going to have the same clarity here.  It comes and goes.

[Cred]

@Hojo @theleelajoker

The goal I'm trying to help achieve is self acceptance. Can you awake without self acceptance? Maybe. Maybe just briefly. Can you achieve self acceptance through purely idealistic means? Maybe. Maybe just briefly. At the end you can always flee into the Himalayas to some guru in a cave. Will this solve all your problems? Maybe. Is it that what you want?
 

Living in denial about being ND is unnecessarily painful unless you live in a cave by yourself.  The process of learning you're ND is also painful. THIS pain is not optional. 

In strict idealistic theory, you can achieve everything through contemplation. Will you though? Is this really realistic? Do you have the material conditions to be able to pull this off?

Edited 50 minutes ago by Cred

[Joshe]

20 minutes ago, Cred said:

If you know exactly why you get to be yourself and why you don't have any other options, you can live in peace. 

Yes, this is what it's all about.

This is deep work. Excavating the dirt around the root of the ego that you think you've already transcended.

Wanna talk about an "awakening"? Wait till you have the ND awakening. You'll bawl like a little girl and will never be the same.

Edited 48 minutes ago by Joshe

[Lyubov]

You are aligning with what society believes which will never work. 

it was once illegal to be gay in England, now you can fuck a whole stadium of men there if you so desire. What society thinks is always changing. 

You are right, Society may see you as less valuable, so what? Who in society? Which person? Can you name them? You’re giving your power away. You’re building your house on shifting sands.

All that matters is that god sees you as valuable which I’ve found to be what is true… what society sees as valuable is always changing, god’s value is eternal. Align with god, not society. You’re valuable as you are regardless of what society thinks. 

Edited 45 minutes ago by Lyubov