Solipsism, the child in the lap of the absolute

[CosmicTrekker]

I had a unsolicited experience many years ago, when the realisation dawned that I was the unborn eternity, and that I was completely and utterly alone for eternity. I was terrified by that realisation, no horror is even comparable.

Today (after 27 years from the previous experience), another insight arose, and with it the realisation, that "I am", is a child, a secondary level thought, and that "I am" is not the absolute, but a derivative, that has taken an attribute of that which is. 

 

This means that off course it's going to feel terrified when faced with its own existence, because it is just a fragment of the nameless infinity that is. 

As soon you separate from it, there's no peace. Peace is to absolutely desolve into the nothing that precedes everything, including the idea that "I am".

[Carl-Richard]

Solipsism around these parts are very concerned about denying the existence of certain spatio temporal entities (hidden forms and objects), while clinging to other spatio temporal entities as ontological primitives ("currently visible" forms and objects), and calling these primitives absolute, seemingly for no coherent reason. But there too, the answer is to simply dissolve any primitive that is not limitless.

[CosmicTrekker]

@Carl-Richard I'm not a philosopher so I might have misunderstood what you're pointing to, so forgive me. I think I get the gist of what you're saying, which is that as long as you see, witness, observe, or even be an observer, then you're still in duality, and that's not reality (reality being something that is, but which is beyond any capability to define, because to define it, requires duality). 

 

 

[Hojo]

Yes fear of solipsism is ego. You are deep sleep, between every thought of ego you see the brain dead state of deep sleep that never leaves.

[Sandroew]

Very nice! I understood exactly what you mean. (But i think you could have just used Infinity to describe it, solipsism proves to be a problematic concept for people.) How did the unsolicited experience happen ? What were you doing at the time ?

[Breakingthewall]

3 hours ago, CosmicTrekker said:

had a unsolicited experience many years ago, when the realisation dawned that I was the unborn eternity, and that I was completely and utterly alone for eternity. I was terrified by that realisation, no horror is even comparable

I've had that experience many times with psychedelics, especially with 5-MeO-DMT. It's absolutely horrible. You're alone, you are reality, there's nowhere to go, no time. You are eternal, reality is an eternal prison. You've always been here, alone, in eternity. There is no escape. I've even vomited, gone out into the street in a state of extreme high to avoid seeing that horror, drunk 4 beers in a row at a bar afterward to forget it, etc. But my feeling was: you have to hit that spot. You have to enter that state of absolute solitude until it becomes normal. It's almost impossible because it's horrible.

Then one day I did 5-MeO-DMT, and... the usual, cosmic loneliness, a gong that resonates and is absolute horror. I thought, okay, this is what I was meant to see today....again. After a few seconds I thought: no, I'm not going to settle for this shit. I put a double or triple amount of 5-MeO in the pipe without weighing it and thought: show me the truth or kill me. Reality shattered. There was no loneliness because there were no limits. It was everything, unlimited, total. It wasn't defined, closed, drawn, confined to a form, it was the unlimited, it wasn't someone, it was the boundless ocean. Nothing could be better, "better" wasn't a possibility, it, or i, was total, period.

"Alone" means nothing, because it's total, alone is absolutely meaningless, because alone is closed and you are open. Alone means a circle. Everything mean no lines, no definition. There is not one. Not numbers. One means nothing. If one means something, you are closed. 

Edited 20 hours ago by Breakingthewall

[cetus]

59 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

I've had that experience many times with psychedelics, especially with 5-MeO-DMT. It's absolutely horrible. You're alone, you are reality, there's nowhere to go, no time. You are eternal, reality is an eternal prison. You've always been here, alone,

I aways think of this song when I hear ppl say they had their first realization of Absolute Truth. 

Edited 19 hours ago by cetus

[Carl-Richard]

3 hours ago, CosmicTrekker said:

@Carl-Richard I'm not a philosopher so I might have misunderstood what you're pointing to, so forgive me. I think I get the gist of what you're saying, which is that as long as you see, witness, observe, or even be an observer, then you're still in duality, and that's not reality (reality being something that is, but which is beyond any capability to define, because to define it, requires duality).

Correct. It is as simple as that. Solipsists around these parts tend to take the witnessing of objects as absolute, while the witnessing of objects is in fact relative. They will maybe protest this characterization and vaguely proclaim "this is everything that exists" but then also add a bunch of other statements after that (e.g. "if your grandma is not in your field of vision, she doesn't exist) that implies that only a certain configuration of objects exist and anything outside that configuration cannot be the case. "But my visual field is not an object". Well, objects are defined by exclusion (or distinction), and if your visual field can exclude or be distinct from your grandma, it's an object.

[RisingLane]

"The feeling ‘I am’ is itself an illusion, therefore whatever is seen through this illusion cannot be real." - Key Quotes on the ‘I am’ by Nisargadatta Maharaj

[Breakingthewall]

6 hours ago, cetus said:

aways think of this song when I hear ppl say they had their first realization of Absolute Truth. 

Yeah but one alone is not the absolute truth , is ego inflation. The ego must explode and disappear, then there is not one nor loneliness 

[Breakingthewall]

16 hours ago, RisingLane said:

"The feeling ‘I am’ is itself an illusion, therefore whatever is seen through this illusion cannot be real." - Key Quotes on the ‘I am’ by Nisargadatta Maharaj

The feeling of "I am" exists in contrast to an external world. Without an external world, there is no "I am" because there is no consciousness. The fact is that reality will always reflect itself in some way, and in doing so, it will realize what it is, which is true.

Therefore, what Nisgardatta says is false if we want to be precise. "Illusion" is a misleading word; nothing is an illusion, but rather different perspectives. 

To say that I am is an illusion is like saying that consciousness is an illusion, or that form is an illusion. glorifying emptiness and denying wholeness, depressed neo-Advaida defining enlightenment as nothing 

Edited 2 hours ago by Breakingthewall

[Breakingthewall]

16 hours ago, RisingLane said:

"The feeling ‘I am’ is itself an illusion, therefore whatever is seen through this illusion cannot be real." - Key Quotes on the ‘I am’ by Nisargadatta Maharaj

What I said before needs clarification, since Nisgardatta, when he says "illusion," surely means "not ultimate." In that case, he's right, and he's one of the few mystics who makes that leap, not considering consciousness as the ultimate substance.

The problem is the word "illusion," which implies falsehood. It would be much better to use the terms "relative" vs. "absolute," instead of "illusion" vs. "real." Nothing is false or illusory. Forms are real, but they are relational in form, absolute in essence.