Casual sex is always based on a lie ?

[Howtolive]

Hey guys,

Down below I summarised my thoughts about casual sex and why I belive its full of "shit".
I am interested in getting feedback on my line of thought. Maybe I am to radical ? Maybe I am overseeing something here? Maybe I have wrong premisses? 

Happy to hear from you !




I often hear women say that they need a sense of connection and safety before engaging in sex, even if it’s “just sex.”
Very often (unless people meet in a nightclub), it’s obvious that women need some form of a “mini relationship” before participating in short-term sex.

Even on dating platforms, you can clearly see that many women want to be seen for their personality first and then sex may happen.

From my own experience, and from conversations with many other men, I’ve realized that there is a big game of self-deception going on.

Men who have “game” and know their way around women will make a woman feel good, respected, and emotionally seen. Sometimes they even create the feeling of a mini relationship.
All of this sends the signal:
“I care about you as a human being  not just about sex.”

But the uncomfortable truth I’ve discovered is this:
Many men don’t actually care. They will do almost anything to get sex, including pretending to like a woman more than they do.

I would even argue that many men don’t truly respect women they have casual sex with, because on some level they know the woman is believing a story that isn’t fully real.

If a man genuinely respects, likes, and finds a woman attractive, he will usually consider a relationship with her.
There are exceptions, for example, if he has just come out of a long-term relationship, but overall, this pattern holds true.

If a man only sleeps with a woman for sex, it often indicates one of the following:
    •    He does not find her attractive enough for a relationship
    •    He does not like her personality
    •    Or both

In some cases, men even date women they are afraid to be seen with in public. That’s why they might suggest secluded walks instead of going for a drink at a local bar.

This is especially common because it’s hard for many men to get very attractive women for casual sex, those women usually have many options.
So men often “date down” (in terms of looks) when it comes to casual sex.

If men were brutally honest about casual sex, it would sound more like this:
    •    “I don’t find you attractive enough for a serious relationship, but I’d still like to have sex with you. Are you in?”
    •    “I don’t like your personality or your views on life. I wouldn’t spend time with you if you didn’t have a body I want. Are you down for sex?”
    •    “I don’t find you attractive, I don’t want to be seen with you, and I don’t like your personality, but you’re available. Let’s have sex.”

In all these cases, it’s clear that the man is on a hunting trip, not meeting another human being as an equal.

Male sexuality is deeply instinctual when it comes to reproduction. Often, it’s less about connection and more about conquest.

Because of this, it becomes very difficult for a woman to be truly seen for who she is when a man is in “hunting mode.”

At the same time, many men experience an inner conflict:
They want easy access to sex, yet they also find it subtly repulsive to get that access without investment or genuine respect (even if they are not consciously aware of this).

That’s why I’ve come to believe that casual sex is often not what it appears to be.

For men, it’s rarely just a “fun activity.”
It’s often a deeply instinctual hunt, about power, validation, and domination more than about human connection.
Even if a man appears submissive in the bedroom, the underlying dynamic is still one of pursuit and conquest.

Because of this, I believe it’s healthier for both genders to engage in meaningful, honest sexual connections rather than shallow interactions built on half-truths and unspoken intentions.

What do you think?

[Sugarcoat]

Good post I might add more thoughts later but this came to mind. 

When I’m inauthentic it feels wrong and it bugs my mind I don’t get how people can do it for so long, repeatedly with different people and still gain significant satisfaction. 
 

Being authentic is one of my primary sources of satisfaction, or maybe it’s more that it feels like a bare minimum for me, connecting with someone on false basis wouldn’t be able to compensate for that for me

Not trying to sound like angel or something im not that, it’s just a sensitivity to oneself I think. 

 

 

Edited Saturday at 06:56 PM by Sugarcoat

[Hojo]

Woman are just as disgustingly horny as men. It dosent have to based on connection besides I want to fuck you. They might be even more horny. Its like the opposite woman will have sex with attractive man just for sex and then want to be with someone they deem less attractive than them. And me will have casual sex with someone they deem less attractive and want to be with the more attractive one.

If a woman is with a man that is attractive or they deem more attractive they will get jealous and lose their mind so they take the lesser attractive one to feel secure that hes too ugly to cheat. The woman needs to feel more beautiful than their counter part or they go insane.

Men dont resepect the woman they have casual sex with because they already got it. To a man its like an ego thing can I get this beautiful woman thats how I define my beauty and self worth.

A man can be with a woman lesser beauty that him if she makes him fall in love with her. If a man falls in love with a woman she will gain attractiveness out of thin air. She will do this via making him feel important.

Edited Saturday at 07:13 PM by Hojo

[theleelajoker]

@Howtolive

My thoughts:

• It's true that many people with "game" are often as you describe. I have seen it many times
• I agree with your conclusion
• It comes at the right time for me, too. Recently had a date and when I'm honest, then I have to say this: "I don’t find think we have a fit for a serious relationship, but I’d still like to have sex with you. Are you in?" And I can see how my desire to have sex with her creates doubts if I should do it, how strategies are created in my mind how to best to do this and still get sex. Makes my laugh about myself😆 I already felt like doing it despite the resistance and your post confirmed this - honesty for my own sake, it will be good to talk openly.
• You are relatively black and white in your assessment of men and women, and their patterns. I know women that were really fast re having sex, and I know men that need emotional connection. Women are equally hunting in their own way and the strategy - make the men seen, respected, feel good - is also the same, just the methods differ.
• The inner conflict you describe - I think there's something but it's suppressed. It's a problem IMO that our culture puts so much meaning on having sex with many women. It's so closely tied to male identity and many follow like sheeps. 
• The more conscious I get, the more I see things as energetic exchange. And sex being the plus ultra of energetic exchange between man and woman. Makes sense to keep this interaction as "clean" as possible, without inner conflict. And to ask myself with whom I actually want to do this exchange, and how to do it 
• If you drop some concepts and narratives about men and women, you still end up at the same conclusion 

5 hours ago, Howtolive said:

 I believe it’s healthier for both genders to engage in meaningful, honest sexual connections rather than shallow interactions built on half-truths and unspoken intentions.

This quote is the essence and resonates a lot.

Ok you MAYBE don't have as much sex, but the one you'll have is better and you feel better before and afterwards because no inner conflict but peace of mind.

 

Edited Saturday at 07:58 PM by theleelajoker

[Xonas Pitfall]

I think the core problem is that seeing this as a “hunt” is already a wrong assumption.

Nothing else in life really works this way.

You do not go “hunting” for a friend and expect him to immediately say, “Oh my god, you are my best friend, let’s do everything together forever.” And if he does not behave that way, you do not get frustrated or think, “God, all of these potential friends just want to be deceived. Instead of them simply submitting to my friendship request, I am expected to talk to them, flatter them, search for common interests, trade life stories, ease into shared hobbies, and eventually be comfortable being seen together in public. Apparently, this is the process, how exhausting... ugh! 🙄” You cannot just say, “Hey, be my friend, admire me, adore me, support me unconditionally,” and expect that to happen instantly. Or imagine the potential friend replying instantly, “Oh my god, yes!!! You are fully my best friend now! Let’s do as many activities together as possible. I have been wanting this for so long.”

If either person did that, they would seem unhinged, overly intense, and deeply untrustworthy. It would raise the questions.

It sounds ridiculous and suspicious because we understand that authentic relationships require both people to appear genuinely authentic. That authenticity is usually signalled through moderation, not extreme language or instant intensity. In the beginning, both sides are still evaluating each other. Real authenticity signals safety and the possibility of an actual connection, which is more intoxicating and more fun, whether it is a friendship, a relationship, or even a purely sexual interaction.

The same applies to a business deal. Imagine a company saying, “We do not care about your product, your mission, or even your profit. We just want to screw you over and get as much as possible from this deal. Thoughts?” Now imagine the other company replying, “Oh my god, yes, finally, please screw us over immediately.” Or imagine the second company hesitating, and the first one responding with frustration: “God, all these selfish companies. They just want to be lied to. We never make deals if we are direct. I hate this. I am so frustrated that I am not getting what I want.”

The companies would come across as either wildly desperate, blatantly deceptive, or simply rude and entitled.

When people complain about not getting instant sex, this is how they sound. “What? I ate one healthy Caesar salad. Why is my body not lean, skinny, sexy, and covered in abs? God, why does my body need an entire process before it submits to my desires? Ugh...” 

Or to make it even more direct: “What?! I said I wanted to fuck you, and you don’t want to fuck me? How rude! You should appreciate me being this direct. Ugh… I swear, everyone just wants to be lied to.”

Just because you want something doesn’t mean you’re entitled to it. If you want it but aren’t willing to do the honest work to earn it, you might resort to lying, scheming, cheating, or manipulating to get it. Either way, whatever you want comes with conditions, you have to respect them. Otherwise, you are denying reality. Whether you meet those conditions honestly or dishonestly is up to you, but nothing comes without caveats. Everything in life works this way, yet somehow here, some people fail to see the parallel.

For example, if I want a raise from my boss, I have two options. I can be a competent employee who does the honest work and understands the system, learning how to appeal to my boss legitimately. Or I can manipulate, play social games, network strategically, and flatter my way to the same result. Both approaches can work because they engage the system in their own way, but both come with their own costs.

Similarly, if you want a strong, fit body, you can either spend months grinding at the gym, or take steroids. Both will give your muscles what they need to grow, but each comes with its own type of effort and trade-offs. You can’t just get frustrated because your body doesn’t instantly submit to your desires.

This actually ties back well to Leo’s recent blog post.

Quote

Why is survival so evil? Because survival naturally optimizes energy. It is more energy-efficient to steal another's energy than to generate your own. So most of survival is more and more optimal ways of stealing another's energy. Most evil boils down to stealing the energy of others out of laziness. Survival creates an infinite diversity of theft. This force is so well-honed that it is automatic, unconscious, and default. Nearly all the evil of mankind is about theft of energy in ever more sophisticated, clever, subtle, and abstracted ways. Humans will do anything to avoid honest work. 

Edited Saturday at 08:24 PM by Xonas Pitfall

[theleelajoker]

1 hour ago, Xonas Pitfall said:

I think the core problem is that seeing this as a “hunt” is already a wrong assumption.

Nothing else in life really works this way.

You do not go “hunting” for a friend and expect him to immediately say, “Oh my god, you are my best friend, let’s do everything together forever.” And if he does not behave that way, you do not get frustrated or think, “God, all of these potential friends just want to be deceived. Instead of them simply submitting to my friendship request, I am expected to talk to them, flatter them, search for common interests, trade life stories, ease into shared hobbies, and eventually be comfortable being seen together in public. Apparently, this is the process, how exhausting... ugh! 🙄” You cannot just say, “Hey, be my friend, admire me, adore me, support me unconditionally,” and expect that to happen instantly. Or imagine the potential friend replying instantly, “Oh my god, yes!!! You are fully my best friend now! Let’s do as many activities together as possible. I have been wanting this for so long.”

If either person did that, they would seem unhinged, overly intense, and deeply untrustworthy. It would raise the questions.

It sounds ridiculous and suspicious because we understand that authentic relationships require both people to appear genuinely authentic. That authenticity is usually signalled through moderation, not extreme language or instant intensity. In the beginning, both sides are still evaluating each other. Real authenticity signals safety and the possibility of an actual connection, which is more intoxicating and more fun, whether it is a friendship, a relationship, or even a purely sexual interaction.

The same applies to a business deal. Imagine a company saying, “We do not care about your product, your mission, or even your profit. We just want to screw you over and get as much as possible from this deal. Thoughts?” Now imagine the other company replying, “Oh my god, yes, finally, please screw us over immediately.” Or imagine the second company hesitating, and the first one responding with frustration: “God, all these selfish companies. They just want to be lied to. We never make deals if we are direct. I hate this. I am so frustrated that I am not getting what I want.”

The companies would come across as either wildly desperate, blatantly deceptive, or simply rude and entitled.

When people complain about not getting instant sex, this is how they sound. “What? I ate one healthy Caesar salad. Why is my body not lean, skinny, sexy, and covered in abs? God, why does my body need an entire process before it submits to my desires? Ugh...” 

Or to make it even more direct: “What?! I said I wanted to fuck you, and you don’t want to fuck me? How rude! You should appreciate me being this direct. Ugh… I swear, everyone just wants to be lied to.”

Just because you want something doesn’t mean you’re entitled to it. If you want it but aren’t willing to do the honest work to earn it, you might resort to lying, scheming, cheating, or manipulating to get it. Either way, whatever you want comes with conditions, you have to respect them. Otherwise, you are denying reality. Whether you meet those conditions honestly or dishonestly is up to you, but nothing comes without caveats. Everything in life works this way, yet somehow here, some people fail to see the parallel.

For example, if I want a raise from my boss, I have two options. I can be a competent employee who does the honest work and understands the system, learning how to appeal to my boss legitimately. Or I can manipulate, play social games, network strategically, and flatter my way to the same result. Both approaches can work because they engage the system in their own way, but both come with their own costs.

Similarly, if you want a strong, fit body, you can either spend months grinding at the gym, or take steroids. Both will give your muscles what they need to grow, but each comes with its own type of effort and trade-offs. You can’t just get frustrated because your body doesn’t instantly submit to your desires.

This actually ties back well to Leo’s recent blog post.

Not really sure about the hunting argument and the comparisons you make here. Depends on your definition of hunting. 

Life does work in some cases work that way: you set an in intention, a fixed goal, you invest resources, you take action but you have an risk that you still fail to achieve the goal. You catch the fish, you take that picture of that rare bird, or you find that jeans in the second hand market.  Or not.

You want a ONS you go out, might be successful. Or not. 

You could add one dimension: that your prey fights your hunt, and that the success of your hunt is on the other hand negative for the prey. Animals don't want to be killed, for instance. But in today's times content is crucial, so we can leave that aside for this discussion.

I would go down another route: it's the HOW you do it. Your examples with friends and company work if you set a goal of: maximizing win win.

You still go hunting, and you still have your interest, you are just open about it. You're curios to find out if and how you can create a good situation for everyone.

"Hey, I want to get to know you, have sex with you, or I want you to buy our product - what does it take for you to be interested in it? How can we find out if we fit together?" 

"Ok sorry, we don't fit. Glad we found out early"

It's still hunting, it's still about getting results. But the question is different. Instead of "I want a ONS tonight" it turns to "I want to know if a ONS happens tonight". Being curious means you want find out what happens, not controlling what happens.

[Howtolive]

15 hours ago, Hojo said:

Woman are just as disgustingly horny as men. It dosent have to based on connection besides I want to fuck you. They might be even more horny. Its like the opposite woman will have sex with attractive man just for sex and then want to be with someone they deem less attractive than them. And me will have casual sex with someone they deem less attractive and want to be with the more attractive one.

If a woman is with a man that is attractive or they deem more attractive they will get jealous and lose their mind so they take the lesser attractive one to feel secure that hes too ugly to cheat. The woman needs to feel more beautiful than their counter part or they go insane.

Men dont resepect the woman they have casual sex with because they already got it. To a man its like an ego thing can I get this beautiful woman thats how I define my beauty and self worth.

A man can be with a woman lesser beauty that him if she makes him fall in love with her. If a man falls in love with a woman she will gain attractiveness out of thin air. She will do this via making him feel important.

thanks for your view!

So far my experience was that it's harder for females to just purly for sex. A man his this hunter mode, he is purly driven by instinct and visuals. He can leave directly after the sex without caring. I have never heard or seen this in woman. I often also hear the term that woman need to trust the man and feel secure to let go and enjoy sex, how is that working when the man really doesnt give a "shit"?

But maybe my perception is wrong here and woman are more raw then I might belive.

[Howtolive]

14 hours ago, theleelajoker said:

@Howtolive

My thoughts:

• It's true that many people with "game" are often as you describe. I have seen it many times
• I agree with your conclusion
• It comes at the right time for me, too. Recently had a date and when I'm honest, then I have to say this: "I don’t find think we have a fit for a serious relationship, but I’d still like to have sex with you. Are you in?" And I can see how my desire to have sex with her creates doubts if I should do it, how strategies are created in my mind how to best to do this and still get sex. Makes my laugh about myself😆 I already felt like doing it despite the resistance and your post confirmed this - honesty for my own sake, it will be good to talk openly.
• You are relatively black and white in your assessment of men and women, and their patterns. I know women that were really fast re having sex, and I know men that need emotional connection. Women are equally hunting in their own way and the strategy - make the men seen, respected, feel good - is also the same, just the methods differ.
• The inner conflict you describe - I think there's something but it's suppressed. It's a problem IMO that our culture puts so much meaning on having sex with many women. It's so closely tied to male identity and many follow like sheeps. 
• The more conscious I get, the more I see things as energetic exchange. And sex being the plus ultra of energetic exchange between man and woman. Makes sense to keep this interaction as "clean" as possible, without inner conflict. And to ask myself with whom I actually want to do this exchange, and how to do it 
• If you drop some concepts and narratives about men and women, you still end up at the same conclusion 

This quote is the essence and resonates a lot.

Ok you MAYBE don't have as much sex, but the one you'll have is better and you feel better before and afterwards because no inner conflict but peace of mind.

 

Very interesting what you say about dropping the concepts and still coming to the same conclusion...

I get your point with black and white thinking about men and woman... for me personally I have a higher libido, I see a nice woman on the street and my brain tells me to get her laid. I dont know if it is that strong in woman.
A man has close to zero risk engaging in sex a woman does. So isn't there a natural mechanisim in woman which should be there to ensure here that here sexual encounter is not to costly for here? 

[Howtolive]

15 hours ago, Hojo said:

Woman are just as disgustingly horny as men. It dosent have to based on connection besides I want to fuck you. They might be even more horny. Its like the opposite woman will have sex with attractive man just for sex and then want to be with someone they deem less attractive than them. And me will have casual sex with someone they deem less attractive and want to be with the more attractive one.

If a woman is with a man that is attractive or they deem more attractive they will get jealous and lose their mind so they take the lesser attractive one to feel secure that hes too ugly to cheat. The woman needs to feel more beautiful than their counter part or they go insane.

Men dont resepect the woman they have casual sex with because they already got it. To a man its like an ego thing can I get this beautiful woman thats how I define my beauty and self worth.

A man can be with a woman lesser beauty that him if she makes him fall in love with her. If a man falls in love with a woman she will gain attractiveness out of thin air. She will do this via making him feel important.

and a nother question:

would a woman really sleep with a man if she knew that : "- he does not care about me, does not find me attractive for a relationship, I am just the one female that gives him excess, thats why he is interested"

A lot of woman told me that they can start something casual with a guy and later they will see if it fits for a relationship. But mostly the man knows already in the beginning that a relationship will never happen. 
One reason is because she is not exclusive already.

So maybe woman do sleep fast with men, but in their mind are still open for a possible relationship, while this is often not happening from the mens side. 

[theleelajoker]

1 hour ago, Howtolive said:

Very interesting what you say about dropping the concepts and still coming to the same conclusion...

I get your point with black and white thinking about men and woman... for me personally I have a higher libido, I see a nice woman on the street and my brain tells me to get her laid. I dont know if it is that strong in woman.
A man has close to zero risk engaging in sex a woman does. So isn't there a natural mechanisim in woman which should be there to ensure here that here sexual encounter is not to costly for here? 

I don't think about such things much anymore. Don't really care how women or men act on a general basis. What use does it have for me?

The way I see it now it's only strengthening the power of the mind in strategizing, trying to control reality and the outcome of my actions. This is fine when I want to build a bridge or a house, but not for me in dating.

I care about the individual men and women in my direct field of awareness, not some generalized "average gender" that doesn't exist. Women in the EU had approximately 1.38. children in 2023. Go and find 1.38 baby clothes and you'll have the perfect gift for the average woman : ) 

The range is infinite. Yeah, some women took long time before we had sex (weeks, months). Others fucked with me in the toilet of a bar same evening we got to know each other. The best way to deal with anyone is IMO do see them as unique individuals and to act spontaneously off the cuff and in the moment.

Finally, regarding your higher libido: 1) people indeed can be different re that 2) I would seriously question how cultural conditioning plays a role in the idea men = higher libido and in your personal sex drive 3) The sex drive looses some of it power over you once you realized that you can partially de-condition biological needs. Fasting is one example that drives that ability to be composed and not a horny monkey (not talking about you, but I have seen a lot of this behavior. Just need to go to bars at 1am )

[LordFall]

I think as a man two key concepts are important to keep in mind

1) Honesty. I think as long as you're honest and transparent about your intentions when asked I think you're good to go.

2) Win-win. You should generally want the best for yourself and the other people and women in this case that you interact with, sexually and otherwise. 

If you keep these concepts in mind then casual sex is not a problem. 

[Howtolive]

2 hours ago, LordFall said:

I think as a man two key concepts are important to keep in mind

1) Honesty. I think as long as you're honest and transparent about your intentions when asked I think you're good to go.

2) Win-win. You should generally want the best for yourself and the other people and women in this case that you interact with, sexually and otherwise. 

If you keep these concepts in mind then casual sex is not a problem. 

I think if a man is really honest most woman wouldn't have casual sex with him. Thats why I belive its almost always based on a lie 

[Howtolive]

6 hours ago, theleelajoker said:

I don't think about such things much anymore. Don't really care how women or men act on a general basis. What use does it have for me?

The way I see it now it's only strengthening the power of the mind in strategizing, trying to control reality and the outcome of my actions. This is fine when I want to build a bridge or a house, but not for me in dating.

I care about the individual men and women in my direct field of awareness, not some generalized "average gender" that doesn't exist. Women in the EU had approximately 1.38. children in 2023. Go and find 1.38 baby clothes and you'll have the perfect gift for the average woman : ) 

The range is infinite. Yeah, some women took long time before we had sex (weeks, months). Others fucked with me in the toilet of a bar same evening we got to know each other. The best way to deal with anyone is IMO do see them as unique individuals and to act spontaneously off the cuff and in the moment.

Finally, regarding your higher libido: 1) people indeed can be different re that 2) I would seriously question how cultural conditioning plays a role in the idea men = higher libido and in your personal sex drive 3) The sex drive looses some of it power over you once you realized that you can partially de-condition biological needs. Fasting is one example that drives that ability to be composed and not a horny monkey (not talking about you, but I have seen a lot of this behavior. Just need to go to bars at 1am )

I agree on a personal level. Things automatically start shifting in the direction you mention. 

Still there is the ethical / meta view trying to understand causal sex and if I want to participate in it and if it is generally useful for others to participate in it. So far my view is: Its not useful for both genders.

It seems like you got a little stuck on me comparing men and woman. for the sake of my argument it does matter.

[theleelajoker]

Quote

Still there is the ethical / meta view trying to understand causal sex and if I want to participate in it and if it is generally useful for others to participate in it. So far my view is: Its not useful for both genders.

I don't see it as not useful per se. 

I remember casual ONS where - as far as I can see it - it was a clear win-win.

• I've been traveling a lot and that means for instance that you often meet a girl you like (and vice versa). And for both it's clear - OK we see each other now, but we are going separate ways. Festivals are similar
• Even if you're in the same city, I remember good ONS that I consider win-win. I told women that I am not in for a LTR - and they still spent the night with me. Just a mutual energetic transaction
• To be fair, I had casual sex that was not a good idea as well. 

Quote

I think if a man is really honest most woman wouldn't have casual sex with him. Thats why I belive its almost always based on a lie 

Sounds like a hypothesis to test  

[theleelajoker]

2 hours ago, LordFall said:

I think as a man two key concepts are important to keep in mind

1) Honesty. I think as long as you're honest and transparent about your intentions when asked I think you're good to go.

2) Win-win. You should generally want the best for yourself and the other people and women in this case that you interact with, sexually and otherwise. 

If you keep these concepts in mind then casual sex is not a problem. 

@LordFall100% agreement, not only re sex but also other interactions. I live by these two principles as best as possible

One thing I wonder about: "transparent about your intentions when asked I think you're good to go."

What if you don't get asked? Sometimes you can send those signals non-verbally, sure. But there are not always understood as intended.

Are there situations where you feel like "Hm I think she assumes something that is not true"  and you feel the need to proactively say sth? 

[Howtolive]

15 hours ago, theleelajoker said:

I don't see it as not useful per se. 

I remember casual ONS where - as far as I can see it - it was a clear win-win.

• I've been traveling a lot and that means for instance that you often meet a girl you like (and vice versa). And for both it's clear - OK we see each other now, but we are going separate ways. Festivals are similar
• Even if you're in the same city, I remember good ONS that I consider win-win. I told women that I am not in for a LTR - and they still spent the night with me. Just a mutual energetic transaction
• To be fair, I had casual sex that was not a good idea as well. 

Sounds like a hypothesis to test  

I See where you are pointing at. And I thought so, too for a longer time. 

There is just something about male sexuality which is very destructive I think. If I look deeply in my self it turns me on to "use" a girl and when that usage marks her or degrades her in a way. Thats purly instinctual though. I know it's very hard to talk about, but to me it feels like devaluing a woman when this instinct is not properly integrated into loving relationship. 
Do you know what I am talking about or is it to far off or only my personal projection? 

I also think because I am aware of this mechanisim in myself, it always feels a bit sad if woman just open up for casual fun to guys. Not knowing what going on in the guys head.

[theleelajoker]

1 hour ago, Howtolive said:

I See where you are pointing at. And I thought so, too for a longer time. 

There is just something about male sexuality which is very destructive I think. If I look deeply in my self it turns me on to "use" a girl and when that usage marks her or degrades her in a way. Thats purly instinctual though. I know it's very hard to talk about, but to me it feels like devaluing a woman when this instinct is not properly integrated into loving relationship. 
Do you know what I am talking about or is it to far off or only my personal projection? 

I also think because I am aware of this mechanisim in myself, it always feels a bit sad if woman just open up for casual fun to guys. Not knowing what going on in the guys head.

Haha ok now we're talking  

Yeah, turns me on to "use" women during sex, too. But guess what? That's what turns them on, too. I literally had girls saying "yeah, use me!", "fuck me like a slut/bitch/whore" etc , begging to be fucked harder, welcoming choking, asking for that and more. So, where's the harm in some mutual role playing? In my personal experience and that of my friends, 9/10 women like hard to degrading sex. They feel your energy and know, at least subconsciously, exactly  what they are getting into. Of course never assume, but explore tiny step by step what feels good for both. ONS, affair, LTR - all offering different context, advantages and disadvantages to do so.  

And it doesn't end here. I like some of that stuff, too. A girl confidently sitting on you and skillfully riding you? Using you like a horse? Using your cock while you see the excitement, their release and their fun while doing so?  Some also choke and slap you while on top, depending on your dynamic you can do almost everything together. 

Among me and my friends, we could share stories like that for hours. The point is: Mutual fun and no shame for liking what you like. A very few times I thought I might have been too hard with them - but except for "hair pull to hard" or similar happened in rush of moment stuff, not a single one ever complained. Quite the opposite   It's not "don't have that kind of sex with me", it's "I communicate HOW I want you to do that".

It's simply exploring as a couple who you are and what you like and what to do with your body. You had contact with Christianity a, lot? There is a common pattern with shame, guilt and sex. 

Edit: For me it's important, that this way of having sex is not the only way, but a point in a spectrum. On the other side of that spectrum is then slowly, gently making love 

Edited Monday at 12:42 PM by theleelajoker

[Howtolive]

5 hours ago, theleelajoker said:

Haha ok now we're talking  

Yeah, turns me on to "use" women during sex, too. But guess what? That's what turns them on, too. I literally had girls saying "yeah, use me!", "fuck me like a slut/bitch/whore" etc , begging to be fucked harder, welcoming choking, asking for that and more. So, where's the harm in some mutual role playing? In my personal experience and that of my friends, 9/10 women like hard to degrading sex. They feel your energy and know, at least subconsciously, exactly  what they are getting into. Of course never assume, but explore tiny step by step what feels good for both. ONS, affair, LTR - all offering different context, advantages and disadvantages to do so.  

And it doesn't end here. I like some of that stuff, too. A girl confidently sitting on you and skillfully riding you? Using you like a horse? Using your cock while you see the excitement, their release and their fun while doing so?  Some also choke and slap you while on top, depending on your dynamic you can do almost everything together. 

Among me and my friends, we could share stories like that for hours. The point is: Mutual fun and no shame for liking what you like. A very few times I thought I might have been too hard with them - but except for "hair pull to hard" or similar happened in rush of moment stuff, not a single one ever complained. Quite the opposite   It's not "don't have that kind of sex with me", it's "I communicate HOW I want you to do that".

It's simply exploring as a couple who you are and what you like and what to do with your body. You had contact with Christianity a, lot? There is a common pattern with shame, guilt and sex. 

Edit: For me it's important, that this way of having sex is not the only way, but a point in a spectrum. On the other side of that spectrum is then slowly, gently making love 

Very nice insights, now we talking haha.
I have made a lot of these experiences myself and talked about them to other men.
So we are on the same page. I would just ask you to go one step deeper.
Maybe you had the experience that doing that with a gir that is particularly "sluttly" and promiscuous is sometimes feeling even better. It's like when you use tinder and you are looking for a hookup. You directly search for the girls who are looking for "nothing serious". And with the experience I had it was an extra turn on, to know that she is doing the naughty stuff with me, because she is already in that category in my head. Because I would not take a girl as a girlfriend that openly on tinder says: just here to get fu*ed. 
So to be precise: The turn on happens because she lets me do all that stuff WITHOUT me having to invest anything more then that. No relationship, no emotional support, no me proving that it's good for her to surrender her body to me.
It feels very good because to us men its like a "glitch" in the matrix.
But on the other hand, even though I want the easy excess to sex, It feels like the woman is doing a move that is not really in her best interest. She is getting projected as a sexual object without it being integrated into something higher.

It's not coming from church for me. Its feels like a natural instinct that does not understand why woman would give themselves to lusting men, how few them in a low light (thats basically what male sexuality does when getting free excess).

I will text you a dm

[LordFall]

22 hours ago, Howtolive said:

I think if a man is really honest most woman wouldn't have casual sex with him. Thats why I belive its almost always based on a lie 

RIght so if 95% of women wouldn't have sex with said man and he talks to 20 women a week he'll get laid each week. 

[theleelajoker]

22 minutes ago, Howtolive said:

Very nice insights, now we talking haha.
I have made a lot of these experiences myself and talked about them to other men.
So we are on the same page. I would just ask you to go one step deeper.
Maybe you had the experience that doing that with a gir that is particularly "sluttly" and promiscuous is sometimes feeling even better. It's like when you use tinder and you are looking for a hookup. You directly search for the girls who are looking for "nothing serious". And with the experience I had it was an extra turn on, to know that she is doing the naughty stuff with me, because she is already in that category in my head. Because I would not take a girl as a girlfriend that openly on tinder says: just here to get fu*ed. 
So to be precise: The turn on happens because she lets me do all that stuff WITHOUT me having to invest anything more then that. No relationship, no emotional support, no me proving that it's good for her to surrender her body to me.
It feels very good because to us men its like a "glitch" in the matrix.
But on the other hand, even though I want the easy excess to sex, It feels like the woman is doing a move that is not really in her best interest. She is getting projected as a sexual object without it being integrated into something higher.

It's not coming from church for me. Its feels like a natural instinct that does not understand why woman would give themselves to lusting men, how few them in a low light (thats basically what male sexuality does when getting free excess).

I will text you a dm

I don't think so much about the question if it's good for them. It's not my job (except I get asked directly). Women don't need to be saved.  Especially not from me. I take care of my values, my actions, my thoughts, my emotional state. 

Maybe it is bad for them? Then they need to learn it themselves. 

Maybe it's great for them? OK happy to contribute to your well being

You can always make the opposite argument: they should be proud, rightfully so, because they

1. Do what they like
2. Bring happiness to others while doing it
3. Don't give a shit what others think

 

Edited Monday at 05:46 PM by theleelajoker