Casual sex is always based on a lie ?

[Xonas Pitfall]

On 03/01/2026 at 11:19 PM, theleelajoker said:

Not really sure about the hunting argument and the comparisons you make here. Depends on your definition of hunting. 

Life does work in some cases work that way: you set an in intention, a fixed goal, you invest resources, you take action but you have an risk that you still fail to achieve the goal. You catch the fish, you take that picture of that rare bird, or you find that jeans in the second hand market.  Or not.

You want a ONS you go out, might be successful. Or not. 

You could add one dimension: that your prey fights your hunt, and that the success of your hunt is on the other hand negative for the prey. Animals don't want to be killed, for instance. But in today's times content is crucial, so we can leave that aside for this discussion.

I would go down another route: it's the HOW you do it. Your examples with friends and company work if you set a goal of: maximizing win win.

You still go hunting, and you still have your interest, you are just open about it. You're curios to find out if and how you can create a good situation for everyone.

"Hey, I want to get to know you, have sex with you, or I want you to buy our product - what does it take for you to be interested in it? How can we find out if we fit together?" 

"Ok sorry, we don't fit. Glad we found out early"

It's still hunting, it's still about getting results. But the question is different. Instead of "I want a ONS tonight" it turns to "I want to know if a ONS happens tonight". Being curious means you want find out what happens, not controlling what happens.

Yes! My only point is that it often feels like people do not want to respect the process itself. That said, the frustration of the original poster was probably more of a vent than an actual rejection of the idea that a process needs to happen.

The reason you feel like you need to “lie” is that the request itself is not respectful of the process, or in this case, of the person. If you wanted a job, you would not expect a company to just give it to you because you said, “I want a job.” You would assume you need to be evaluated for the role to some extent. Getting frustrated that you cannot simply be honest and say “I want a job” and immediately get one is a bit silly.

Quote

You set an intention, a fixed goal, you invest resources, you take action, and there is still a risk that you fail.

Exactly. You invest resources. The original poster made it sound as if the alternative of just saying “I do not care about you, let me have sex” should somehow be justified as a valid strategy. But that would be just as unrealistic as expecting money from someone by saying, “I do not care about you, give me money,” or expecting friendship by saying, “I do not care about you, admire me,” or expecting a job by saying, “I do not care about doing honest work for you, pay me.”

If that is your agenda, then yes, you will feel forced to lie. Honesty alone does not grant your wish when there is a lack of respect for the person or the process.

And to be clear, when I talk about “process,” I do not necessarily always mean flattering someone, courting them, or implying you want a relationship when you do not. The process can simply mean selecting people who are already open to faster sexual engagement, or who have different boundaries around promiscuity. It can also mean learning how to signal trustworthiness and intentions in a more honest way.

Respecting the process does not require manipulation or performance. It just means accepting that compatibility still has to be established, and that outcomes depend on mutual interest rather than on stating a desire and expecting it to be met.

Edited Monday at 06:03 PM by Xonas Pitfall

[Xonas Pitfall]

40 minutes ago, Howtolive said:

Maybe you had the experience that doing that with a gir that is particularly "sluttly" and promiscuous is sometimes feeling even better. It's like when you use tinder and you are looking for a hookup. You directly search for the girls who are looking for "nothing serious". And with the experience I had it was an extra turn on, to know that she is doing the naughty stuff with me, because she is already in that category in my head. Because I would not take a girl as a girlfriend that openly on tinder says: just here to get fu*ed. 
So to be precise: The turn on happens because she lets me do all that stuff WITHOUT me having to invest anything more then that. No relationship, no emotional support, no me proving that it's good for her to surrender her body to me.
It feels very good because to us men its like a "glitch" in the matrix.

This is actually really interesting, and I would like to hear more about it. I am also curious about something else. Do you tend to try to “convert” women who clearly signal they want a relationship into something casual? From what you are describing, it sounds like what you really want is women who already want casual sex. Do you actively look for those women? I feel like doing just that would already remove the need to lie and save you a lot of frustration.

Or is there something appealing about the conversion itself? For example, taking someone who originally did not want casual sex and still getting them to do it with you, almost as a form of conquest? Or is it simply that you struggle to find women who are openly interested in casual sex? Or that you do find them, but you are less attracted to them? Maybe you are more drawn to women who are romantic or relationship-oriented, even if that clashes with what you say you want? Would be curious to know, thank you! 

[theleelajoker]

1 hour ago, Xonas Pitfall said:

Yes! My only point is that it often feels like people do not want to respect the process itself. That said, the frustration of the original poster was probably more of a vent than an actual rejection of the idea that a process needs to happen.

The reason you feel like you need to “lie” is that the request itself is not respectful of the process, or in this case, of the person. If you wanted a job, you would not expect a company to just give it to you because you said, “I want a job.” You would assume you need to be evaluated for the role to some extent. Getting frustrated that you cannot simply be honest and say “I want a job” and immediately get one is a bit silly.

Exactly. You invest resources. The original poster made it sound as if the alternative of just saying “I do not care about you, let me have sex” should somehow be justified as a valid strategy. But that would be just as unrealistic as expecting money from someone by saying, “I do not care about you, give me money,” or expecting friendship by saying, “I do not care about you, admire me,” or expecting a job by saying, “I do not care about doing honest work for you, pay me.”

If that is your agenda, then yes, you will feel forced to lie. Honesty alone does not grant your wish when there is a lack of respect for the person or the process.

And to be clear, when I talk about “process,” I do not necessarily always mean flattering someone, courting them, or implying you want a relationship when you do not. The process can simply mean selecting people who are already open to faster sexual engagement, or who have different boundaries around promiscuity. It can also mean learning how to signal trustworthiness and intentions in a more honest way.

Respecting the process does not require manipulation or performance. It just means accepting that compatibility still has to be established, and that outcomes depend on mutual interest rather than on stating a desire and expecting it to be met.

OK. Gotcha. 

So how do you handle these things?

[Xonas Pitfall]

3 hours ago, theleelajoker said:

OK. Gotcha. 

So how do you handle these things?

You evaluate what you want, and once you do that honestly, you can approach it much more deliberately.

If you just want sex, with minimal commitment and maximum ease, then own that. Your best move is to put yourself in places where that mindset already exists. That means environments with more promiscuous people, or aggressively filtering on dating apps and in real life for women who are clearly open to that dynamic. You also have to accept that you cannot have everyone. This is crucial. If someone signals that they want a relationship, you move on. If there is mutual interest in something casual, you pursue it.

Problems arise when you knowingly pursue someone who wants a relationship while pretending to want the same thing. At that point, the frustration is self-created. You are the one choosing to lie, which makes you the dishonest party. If the lie is discovered, that is on you. If you feel forced to keep lying just to maintain the situation, that is a direct consequence of choosing to prioritize your own desires while disregarding someone else’s, and then doubling down on the dishonesty.

There is nothing wrong with honestly wanting something casual. What is unreasonable is feeling entitled to a positive response from someone who is clearly signalling they want romance. If that request is rejected, the better question to ask yourself is not “I'm frustrated, why won’t this person accept this, why can't I be honest with them?” but rather “Why am I pursuing someone I have to lie to, instead of finding someone who wants the same thing I do?”

You lie because you know your honest desire won’t be accepted, either you sense it instinctively or you actually know it. But you still want it, so you lie to get what you want. Sure, that’s a choice you can make, but don’t get frustrated at the other person for it. They didn’t put you in that position; you did, chasing your own desires at the cost of honesty. If you end up stuck maintaining the lie, that frustration is yours alone. No one forced you to lie, you chose it to serve your own wants.

It’s the same way you wouldn’t really care much for a girl who constantly lies and “carrot-sticks” a guy friend in the friendzone just to keep getting attention, favours, or money. Imagine her saying: "Why is he complaining? Why can’t I just honestly tell him: ‘You’ll never fuck me, I don’t find you attractive or interesting, I don’t want to be seen in public with you, I just want your attention, favours, and money!’ I’m being honest, so why is finding a guy friend so hard? Why do I have to lie?’"

However, as I said, if the original post was more of a "vent" than a complaint expecting the world to bend to a fantasy, that’s completely valid. Dating is messy, complicated, and often frustrating, and it’s normal to feel that way while figuring it out 🤍

[theleelajoker]

5 hours ago, Xonas Pitfall said:

You evaluate what you want, and once you do that honestly, you can approach it much more deliberately.

If you just want sex, with minimal commitment and maximum ease, then own that. Your best move is to put yourself in places where that mindset already exists. That means environments with more promiscuous people, or aggressively filtering on dating apps and in real life for women who are clearly open to that dynamic. You also have to accept that you cannot have everyone. This is crucial. If someone signals that they want a relationship, you move on. If there is mutual interest in something casual, you pursue it.

Problems arise when you knowingly pursue someone who wants a relationship while pretending to want the same thing. At that point, the frustration is self-created. You are the one choosing to lie, which makes you the dishonest party. If the lie is discovered, that is on you. If you feel forced to keep lying just to maintain the situation, that is a direct consequence of choosing to prioritize your own desires while disregarding someone else’s, and then doubling down on the dishonesty.

There is nothing wrong with honestly wanting something casual. What is unreasonable is feeling entitled to a positive response from someone who is clearly signalling they want romance. If that request is rejected, the better question to ask yourself is not “I'm frustrated, why won’t this person accept this, why can't I be honest with them?” but rather “Why am I pursuing someone I have to lie to, instead of finding someone who wants the same thing I do?”

You lie because you know your honest desire won’t be accepted, either you sense it instinctively or you actually know it. But you still want it, so you lie to get what you want. Sure, that’s a choice you can make, but don’t get frustrated at the other person for it. They didn’t put you in that position; you did, chasing your own desires at the cost of honesty. If you end up stuck maintaining the lie, that frustration is yours alone. No one forced you to lie, you chose it to serve your own wants.

It’s the same way you wouldn’t really care much for a girl who constantly lies and “carrot-sticks” a guy friend in the friendzone just to keep getting attention, favours, or money. Imagine her saying: "Why is he complaining? Why can’t I just honestly tell him: ‘You’ll never fuck me, I don’t find you attractive or interesting, I don’t want to be seen in public with you, I just want your attention, favours, and money!’ I’m being honest, so why is finding a guy friend so hard? Why do I have to lie?’"

However, as I said, if the original post was more of a "vent" than a complaint expecting the world to bend to a fantasy, that’s completely valid. Dating is messy, complicated, and often frustrating, and it’s normal to feel that way while figuring it out 🤍

Not sure if we understood each other right.

I asked how you - personally -  handle these things. You wrote a long answer about general behavior that said very little how you handle things. 

You go for casual sex? Why, why not? Experiences? How you signal that if yes? What places you go? How you recognize what others want? How you evaluate what you want? etc etc. 

[Xonas Pitfall]

1 hour ago, theleelajoker said:

Not sure if we understood each other right.

I asked how you - personally -  handle these things. You wrote a long answer about general behavior that said very little how you handle things. 

You go for casual sex? Why, why not? Experiences? How you signal that if yes? What places you go? How you recognize what others want? How you evaluate what you want? etc etc. 

Oh, gotcha, pardon mé! Haha, for some reason I read that as a more generalized question, like, “How does one approach it?”

For me, it’s actually very easy to tell the difference between relationship-oriented attraction and something more casual (on my end, at least). I’m fairly asocial, so when I take an interest in someone, it tends to be very specific. A relationship "crush" feels very intense and consuming, almost all-encompassing, while casual attraction is lighter and more playful (fun, curiosity, something to break boredom.) Also, given the relationship version carries so much emotional weight and energy, I’m usually aware of whether I’m ready for it or not during a given period.

When I’m looking for something serious, it usually grows out of shared hobbies, overlapping social circles, or longer conversations. In those situations, I pay a lot of attention to shared values, and whether the chemistry feels sustainable over time.

If I’m looking for casual, I tend to gravitate toward communities or spaces that are more outwardly exploratory, mainly kink, taboo, or fetish communities. The people there are usually more psychologically interesting to me, more open-minded / exploratory, and often more careful and intentional about boundaries and the different roles they want to take on in dynamics. Tickles my lizard brain in the right way... ^ ^ 🦎

Throughout all of this, I try to manage my emotions carefully and stay aware of how the other person feels. If someone seems more attached than I am, I make sure I’m not leading them toward expectations I can’t meet. At the same time, I watch myself closely so I don’t become overly infatuated with someone who can’t reciprocate. That awareness can be uncomfortable, but it’s necessary to avoid unnecessary pain on both sides.

[Howtolive]

16 hours ago, LordFall said:

RIght so if 95% of women wouldn't have sex with said man and he talks to 20 women a week he'll get laid each week. 

I dont see how that connects to my statement ?

[Howtolive]

16 hours ago, Xonas Pitfall said:

Yes! My only point is that it often feels like people do not want to respect the process itself. That said, the frustration of the original poster was probably more of a vent than an actual rejection of the idea that a process needs to happen.

The reason you feel like you need to “lie” is that the request itself is not respectful of the process, or in this case, of the person. If you wanted a job, you would not expect a company to just give it to you because you said, “I want a job.” You would assume you need to be evaluated for the role to some extent. Getting frustrated that you cannot simply be honest and say “I want a job” and immediately get one is a bit silly.

Exactly. You invest resources. The original poster made it sound as if the alternative of just saying “I do not care about you, let me have sex” should somehow be justified as a valid strategy. But that would be just as unrealistic as expecting money from someone by saying, “I do not care about you, give me money,” or expecting friendship by saying, “I do not care about you, admire me,” or expecting a job by saying, “I do not care about doing honest work for you, pay me.”

If that is your agenda, then yes, you will feel forced to lie. Honesty alone does not grant your wish when there is a lack of respect for the person or the process.

And to be clear, when I talk about “process,” I do not necessarily always mean flattering someone, courting them, or implying you want a relationship when you do not. The process can simply mean selecting people who are already open to faster sexual engagement, or who have different boundaries around promiscuity. It can also mean learning how to signal trustworthiness and intentions in a more honest way.

Respecting the process does not require manipulation or performance. It just means accepting that compatibility still has to be established, and that outcomes depend on mutual interest rather than on stating a desire and expecting it to be met.

I get where you are pointing at overall. If I look deeply in myself I dont respect getting sex without needing to show that I would take care of her, admire her for her etc...

So its not like I expect sex without effort, ist quite the opposite.

And the topic regarding honesty. My point is probably that it feels wrong to me. To let someone else enter your body, especially by someone that get turned on by "using" and objectifying without them caring for the person at all.
Thats a huge difference to selling a product. 

[Howtolive]

15 hours ago, Xonas Pitfall said:

This is actually really interesting, and I would like to hear more about it. I am also curious about something else. Do you tend to try to “convert” women who clearly signal they want a relationship into something casual? From what you are describing, it sounds like what you really want is women who already want casual sex. Do you actively look for those women? I feel like doing just that would already remove the need to lie and save you a lot of frustration.

Or is there something appealing about the conversion itself? For example, taking someone who originally did not want casual sex and still getting them to do it with you, almost as a form of conquest? Or is it simply that you struggle to find women who are openly interested in casual sex? Or that you do find them, but you are less attracted to them? Maybe you are more drawn to women who are romantic or relationship-oriented, even if that clashes with what you say you want? Would be curious to know, thank you! 

what I am trying to say is that when looking at my sexual instinct only: Why do I like sex so much ? What turns me on when having sex with a promiscuous girl? Its the fact that I "use her" , "Own here" (in that moment), And this gets boosted a lot whith girls who are there for casual sex (the aggressive side of the instinct/ the animal in me is getting pushed to the surface). 
When having sex with a girl I am also romantically invested in. The instinct is still there, but this time less boosted. It's more a form of bonding, protecting, leading her, being proud that she submitted to me in a sexual act. I am willing to give a lot when a woman submits like that to me.

So this is my conflict-> Causual sex brings the dark side of my instincts to the surface. During sex its a Raw dominating act which turns me on, maybe even seeing the girl as less ( its not my view but what the instinct turns on). 
I like having this easy excess and at the same time cant really respect the girl for bringing this dark side to the surface. She willingly taks the risk of being seen as less. At least for many men "less" in the sense of not relationship worthy. 

Myabe that explains it ? 


To answr your question: I actively looked for woman that are easy for sex in the past on dating apps and that worked. But I never respected them for doing it. And also now not respecting myself for it. Because for me it's based on a lie.
And turning a relationship girl into a hookup was never a thrill, would always feel like shit if I did that. But of course just being able to get a girl to sleep with you is, In my experince, a big ego push for a man. It's like nature telling me I did a good job. And I "owned" that woman for a moment. Might sound super wrong but I belive if man were really honest about there sexuality... it looks like that.
Thats why I also thing casual sex is not about "fun" for men. Drinking beers with friends is fun. Having sex is pure act of winning/dominating.

[Howtolive]

10 hours ago, Xonas Pitfall said:

You evaluate what you want, and once you do that honestly, you can approach it much more deliberately.

If you just want sex, with minimal commitment and maximum ease, then own that. Your best move is to put yourself in places where that mindset already exists. That means environments with more promiscuous people, or aggressively filtering on dating apps and in real life for women who are clearly open to that dynamic. You also have to accept that you cannot have everyone. This is crucial. If someone signals that they want a relationship, you move on. If there is mutual interest in something casual, you pursue it.

Problems arise when you knowingly pursue someone who wants a relationship while pretending to want the same thing. At that point, the frustration is self-created. You are the one choosing to lie, which makes you the dishonest party. If the lie is discovered, that is on you. If you feel forced to keep lying just to maintain the situation, that is a direct consequence of choosing to prioritize your own desires while disregarding someone else’s, and then doubling down on the dishonesty.

There is nothing wrong with honestly wanting something casual. What is unreasonable is feeling entitled to a positive response from someone who is clearly signalling they want romance. If that request is rejected, the better question to ask yourself is not “I'm frustrated, why won’t this person accept this, why can't I be honest with them?” but rather “Why am I pursuing someone I have to lie to, instead of finding someone who wants the same thing I do?”

You lie because you know your honest desire won’t be accepted, either you sense it instinctively or you actually know it. But you still want it, so you lie to get what you want. Sure, that’s a choice you can make, but don’t get frustrated at the other person for it. They didn’t put you in that position; you did, chasing your own desires at the cost of honesty. If you end up stuck maintaining the lie, that frustration is yours alone. No one forced you to lie, you chose it to serve your own wants.

It’s the same way you wouldn’t really care much for a girl who constantly lies and “carrot-sticks” a guy friend in the friendzone just to keep getting attention, favours, or money. Imagine her saying: "Why is he complaining? Why can’t I just honestly tell him: ‘You’ll never fuck me, I don’t find you attractive or interesting, I don’t want to be seen in public with you, I just want your attention, favours, and money!’ I’m being honest, so why is finding a guy friend so hard? Why do I have to lie?’"

However, as I said, if the original post was more of a "vent" than a complaint expecting the world to bend to a fantasy, that’s completely valid. Dating is messy, complicated, and often frustrating, and it’s normal to feel that way while figuring it out 🤍

I am curious:

The girls you hook up with, that are down for something casual. Would you ever think about having a relationship with them? 
 

[AION]

And you think women don’t know you are lying? They have a six sense but they are just playing along for reasons I won’t state here. 

[theleelajoker]

2 hours ago, Xonas Pitfall said:

Oh, gotcha, pardon mé! Haha, for some reason I read that as a more generalized question, like, “How does one approach it?”

For me, it’s actually very easy to tell the difference between relationship-oriented attraction and something more casual (on my end, at least). I’m fairly asocial, so when I take an interest in someone, it tends to be very specific. A relationship "crush" feels very intense and consuming, almost all-encompassing, while casual attraction is lighter and more playful (fun, curiosity, something to break boredom.) Also, given the relationship version carries so much emotional weight and energy, I’m usually aware of whether I’m ready for it or not during a given period.

When I’m looking for something serious, it usually grows out of shared hobbies, overlapping social circles, or longer conversations. In those situations, I pay a lot of attention to shared values, and whether the chemistry feels sustainable over time.

If I’m looking for casual, I tend to gravitate toward communities or spaces that are more outwardly exploratory, mainly kink, taboo, or fetish communities. The people there are usually more psychologically interesting to me, more open-minded / exploratory, and often more careful and intentional about boundaries and the different roles they want to take on in dynamics. Tickles my lizard brain in the right way... ^ ^ 🦎

Throughout all of this, I try to manage my emotions carefully and stay aware of how the other person feels. If someone seems more attached than I am, I make sure I’m not leading them toward expectations I can’t meet. At the same time, I watch myself closely so I don’t become overly infatuated with someone who can’t reciprocate. That awareness can be uncomfortable, but it’s necessary to avoid unnecessary pain on both sides.

Thanks

[Howtolive]

2 minutes ago, AION said:

And you think women don’t know you are lying? They have a six sense but they are just playing along for reasons I won’t state here. 

Probably true. Doesnt change it for me though. Feels more like deep down they now its shit but they overlook it to have sex. Which is exactly my point. Not a good idea.

why dont you state them ? this is what the forum is for, no ?

[AION]

30 minutes ago, Howtolive said:

Probably true. Doesnt change it for me though. Feels more like deep down they now its shit but they overlook it to have sex. Which is exactly my point. Not a good idea.

why dont you state them ? this is what the forum is for, no ?

No, this forum is very sensitive to certain truths so I prefer not to share it on this forum. I only share tit bits (no phun intended) and even that caused a lot of panties in a bunch. And usually it is not appreciated so I'm ok. 

The best way to understand dating that it is a play like a theater play. You want everybody to take off their masks and stop the play but that is boring. So it is not good to disrupt the play if you want to "play". Why do you think they are dolled up with make up like a Jester? It is a play.

It is similar to the story of the emperor has no clothes which I won't expand upon but you can connect the dots.

Edited Tuesday at 10:56 AM by AION

[Xonas Pitfall]

56 minutes ago, Howtolive said:

To answr your question: I actively looked for woman that are easy for sex in the past on dating apps and that worked. But I never respected them for doing it. And also now not respecting myself for it. Because for me it's based on a lie.
And turning a relationship girl into a hookup was never a thrill, would always feel like shit if I did that. But of course just being able to get a girl to sleep with you is, In my experince, a big ego push for a man. It's like nature telling me I did a good job. And I "owned" that woman for a moment. Might sound super wrong but I belive if man were really honest about there sexuality... it looks like that.
Thats why I also thing casual sex is not about "fun" for men. Drinking beers with friends is fun. Having sex is pure act of winning/dominating.

53 minutes ago, Howtolive said:

I am curious:

The girls you hook up with, that are down for something casual. Would you ever think about having a relationship with them? 

Thank you so much for being so open. For context, I’m a woman, so I find this incredibly interesting, a different frame of reference!

I do wonder how much of this is instinctual or biological, and how much is societal or religious programming that shapes the way you view sex as a power exchange.

Quote

“But I never respected them for doing it. And also now not respecting myself for it. Because for me it's based on a lie.”

This sentence in particular stood out to me and ties back to what I mentioned earlier.

Why is it based on a lie? Did you lie to the more “ promiscuous / slutty ” women, or was the exchange fairly direct? Do you think you would feel less guilt and more able to embrace it if you knew both sides were completely honest with each other?

I’d also be very curious to know how this desire and conflict plays out in long-term relationships, or with girls you see as more “ pure / relationship material. ” Do you slowly lose attraction because you feel like you “owned” them, or does it become more of a growing gratefulness for the level of submission shown?

I think the point still stands: if you want to engage in more open, casual sex, you could try being completely transparent. I’m sure there are many girls who are also just looking for “fun” this way, and you could see if you still feel any kind of guilt. If you do, then it’s probably more about how you see sex as a “dominance match” than just the lying aspect. Basically, my question is: do you like the feeling of casual sex? Or do you just hate the fact that you’re lying? If, let’s say, a girl and you were fully honest with each other, would you enjoy it fully? Or would there still be some aspect of guilt when it comes to dominance, seeing them as “less,” or ownership?

Personally, I don’t really frame sex as fundamentally a power exchange. I see it as play, where you can include power play, rough play, theatrical play, roleplay, etc. Depending on whether you just want to “ play / have fun / experiment ” or engage more deeply and romantically, where you’re more in tune with each other, or short-term versus long-term, is the main difference for me. I don’t really see anyone as “losing or gaining anything,” just how much you can enjoy each other.

So if you get turned on by the feeling of power, then that’s the type of play you want to engage in, which is perfectly fine. In fact, many find it very hot from both the male and female side. And with the type of women who want to play the “ prey / owned / submissive ” role, you’re both actors trying to please each other and explore those aspects. There’s very little shame in that; a lot of it is meant to be “controversial,” and that’s exactly what adds the spice on top, haha.

But I think if you start seeing it as rooted in “reality” and not play, that’s when feelings of guilt or conflict can come in. You might end up thinking the girls are somehow being used or fooled, instead of just engaging and enjoying their “roles” in the fantasy. Or, again, as I mentioned before, if you actually lie to them, or feel like you have to fundamentally lie just to get even easy sex, then it makes complete sense why you might feel conflicted.

I’d love to hear your further thoughts on that 🙂

Edited Tuesday at 11:14 AM by Xonas Pitfall

[theleelajoker]

45 minutes ago, AION said:

 The best way to understand dating that it is a play like a theater play. You want everybody to take off their masks and stop the play but that is boring. So it is not good to disrupt the play if you want to "play". Why do you think they are dolled up with make up like a Jester? It is a play.

 

It's exactly what someone would say that is afraid to drop his mask and be his authentic self, owing his desires and feeling.

Why I think so? I recognize that part in  myself 🤣

[AION]

2 minutes ago, theleelajoker said:

 

It's exactly what someone would say that is afraid to drop his mask and be his authentic self, owing his desires and feeling.

Why I think so? I recognize that part in  myself 🤣

You think that is your authentic self? It is a mask under a mask. You obviously don't know your real self

[theleelajoker]

3 minutes ago, AION said:

You think that is your authentic self? It is a mask under a mask. You obviously don't know your real self

I know it as much as you do. Sitting in the same boat.

[Howtolive]

59 minutes ago, Xonas Pitfall said:

Thank you so much for being so open. For context, I’m a woman, so I find this incredibly interesting, a different frame of reference!

I do wonder how much of this is instinctual or biological, and how much is societal or religious programming that shapes the way you view sex as a power exchange.

This sentence in particular stood out to me and ties back to what I mentioned earlier.

Why is it based on a lie? Did you lie to the more “ promiscuous / slutty ” women, or was the exchange fairly direct? Do you think you would feel less guilt and more able to embrace it if you knew both sides were completely honest with each other?

I’d also be very curious to know how this desire and conflict plays out in long-term relationships, or with girls you see as more “ pure / relationship material. ” Do you slowly lose attraction because you feel like you “owned” them, or does it become more of a growing gratefulness for the level of submission shown?

I think the point still stands: if you want to engage in more open, casual sex, you could try being completely transparent. I’m sure there are many girls who are also just looking for “fun” this way, and you could see if you still feel any kind of guilt. If you do, then it’s probably more about how you see sex as a “dominance match” than just the lying aspect. Basically, my question is: do you like the feeling of casual sex? Or do you just hate the fact that you’re lying? If, let’s say, a girl and you were fully honest with each other, would you enjoy it fully? Or would there still be some aspect of guilt when it comes to dominance, seeing them as “less,” or ownership?

Personally, I don’t really frame sex as fundamentally a power exchange. I see it as play, where you can include power play, rough play, theatrical play, roleplay, etc. Depending on whether you just want to “ play / have fun / experiment ” or engage more deeply and romantically, where you’re more in tune with each other, or short-term versus long-term, is the main difference for me. I don’t really see anyone as “losing or gaining anything,” just how much you can enjoy each other.

So if you get turned on by the feeling of power, then that’s the type of play you want to engage in, which is perfectly fine. In fact, many find it very hot from both the male and female side. And with the type of women who want to play the “ prey / owned / submissive ” role, you’re both actors trying to please each other and explore those aspects. There’s very little shame in that; a lot of it is meant to be “controversial,” and that’s exactly what adds the spice on top, haha.

But I think if you start seeing it as rooted in “reality” and not play, that’s when feelings of guilt or conflict can come in. You might end up thinking the girls are somehow being used or fooled, instead of just engaging and enjoying their “roles” in the fantasy. Or, again, as I mentioned before, if you actually lie to them, or feel like you have to fundamentally lie just to get even easy sex, then it makes complete sense why you might feel conflicted.

I’d love to hear your further thoughts on that 🙂

I wrote you a dm .:)

Basically I belive that sex is viewed differently by the sexes.

I think for most men it’s not just play, it goes much deeper into the psyche. 
 

maybe seeing sex as play is the cultural programming here ? Just a thought to be thrown into the mix. 
 

If both sides were completly honest about the situation. I belive both have not much honor/character when engaging in it.

In a relationship when the woman made the desicion to submit to you, because you really care for her. It’s an exclusive very valuable act from the woman. The men respects it a lot. 
if the sex has been given to many men before him, who did not really care about the woman(maybe even disrespected her), the submission has less value. 
 

I think I don’t respect the woman, who let me have sex with them, even though I do not care at all about them emotionally. 
 

Very hardcore opinion now  hope that doesn’t hit the forums rules or something… I belive if men would have not been socialized the way we are right now. We would basically have an instinct to „rape“ woman. I belive this is how strong the sexual instinct in men is, if we were to be completly honest. 
 

thanks for taking it good !

[theleelajoker]

You have a point IMO about the value of sex (both gendersl equally for me) and honesty/ dishonesty (also both gender).

But I believe you overestimate male aggression.

Children born out rape < children born out of caring, mutual coupling for survival of species.

Plus, and much more important: fun for the man if a woman is welcoming you vs. forcing woman. 

No need for rape. Go to a sexy prostitute and see how you like that sex vs. the one with your GF that loves you and you love her

Edited Tuesday at 12:47 PM by theleelajoker