Use this pointer if you are stuck at low or mid level awakening

[Meeksauce]

The pointer is this - You are not a human or biological entity. Acknowledge that whatever you see is your self. For this reason consciousness is illusory and self painting. This is a fundamental pillar of awakening that many (even on this forum) skip over. Remember to enjoy life. Cheers!

Edited 8 hours ago by Meeksauce

[Breakingthewall]

That is still an identification, just more open than the previous, but still identification, then an absolute limit. 

Furthermore, it denies the reality of your separate nature, something that will become manifest at any moment as a reality check.

[Ishanga]

7 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

That is still an identification, just more open than the previous, but still identification, then an absolute limit. 

Furthermore, it denies the reality of your separate nature, something that will become manifest at any moment as a reality check.

Its a better identification if You know experientially that You are not the Body or Mind, if that is true for You then the identity shifts to higher up ones, where sooner or later You are Absolute in Embodied form internally.  We can still live and play the game of life here, but we don't suffer thru it and not realize what our truest Potential is.. 

Its very very hard not to have some sort of Identity while being Embodied, the key is to create it Consciously under Your own Will and Awareness.

[Breakingthewall]

36 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

very very hard not to have some sort of Identity while being Embodied

Or maybe it's impossible because we are the body and the mind. We are reality expressed in this form, so identifying with the content of the experience instead of with the body is still identification, only it's more unreal, because there are real limits between your body and the outside world. You could say that those limits are illusory, but what does that mean? Just an idea that doesn't describe how reality works, so more confusion. 

[Ishanga]

1 minute ago, Breakingthewall said:

Or maybe it's impossible because we are the body and the mind. We are reality expressed in this form, so identifying with the content of the experience instead of with the body is still identification, only it's more unreal, because there are real limits between your body and the outside world. You could say that those limits are illusory, but what does that mean? Just an idea that doesn't describe how reality works, so more confusion. 

No confusion, Body is just food or borrowed material from earth with an ingrained intelligence that has a strong survival and procreation instinct.. Mind in basic terms is just an accumulation of 5 sense data input, mushed up together via an intellect, identity and memory making machine, so that again we can survive another day..

What was there before all this gathering happened, something had to be there for all of this too be built upon?? Find out what that is, then You know You are not the Body or Mind, you have them here as tools to use in this sort of dual, karmic, materialistic realm to play this game of Life which is full of Possibilities and Choices...You can live like a Pig, or be a virtual God, the choice is ours to make..

Don't spend a whole life trying to figure it out intellectually down to the first atom being born, that is a waste of time, just enjoy the ride and live the possibility that it provides..

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Ishanga said:

What was there before all this gathering happened, something had to be there for all of this too be built upon??

 

1 hour ago, Ishanga said:

Don't spend a whole life trying to figure it out intellectually down to the first atom being born, that is a waste of time, just enjoy the ride and live the possibility that it provides..

There are two completely different aspects. One is realizing that you are what is, therefore you cannot not be; the other is understanding the nature of what is.

You might think, for example, that it is a god full of love who plays fun games or something like that, but that conceptual structure has a closure, an absolute limit, so even if you believe you have realized that you are what is, at an energetic level your system remains closed, limited. The real opening has not occurred. Then really you didn't realize what it is 

On the other hand, that opening could have occurred, and from it you develop a coherent structure that explains how what is manifests. Why would you do this? Why not?

[Ishanga]

6 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

 

There are two completely different aspects. One is realizing that you are what is, therefore you cannot not be; the other is understanding the nature of what is.

You might think, for example, that it is a god full of love who plays fun games or something like that, but that conceptual structure has a closure, an absolute limit, so even if you believe you have realized that you are what is, at an energetic level your system remains closed, limited. The real opening has not occurred. Then really you didn't realize what it is 

On the other hand, that opening could have occurred, and from it you develop a coherent structure that explains how what is manifests. Why would you do this? Why not?

Levels bro, there are levels to it all, baby steps, first dis identify with Body and Mind, then go from there, when ppl that are unprepared (psychedelic users mostly) have these grand experiences whatever that is, they come back freaking out, and then don't know what the hell life is and how to integrate the grand experiences.. You've just this moment become a Billionaire, now what do You do? You go a bit crazy, spend spend spend, lose friends/family, gain fake ones, go thru this craziness and either come out of it wiser or worse than before You won it.. Or you grow slowly, make a $100K a year, then a million a few years later and so on, slow and steady then  you can handle it much better.. We have to deal with what is what, we have this body and mind, it rules us mostly, getting over just that is huge, after that thank god we have Guru's and Teachers that have been there before us to guide and help... No need to reinvent the wheel, time tested methods and systems are already out there, nobody is experiencing anything new, its just new to them but not on the grand scale..

Edited 3 hours ago by Ishanga

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Ishanga said:

after that thank god we have Guru's and Teachers that have been there before us to guide and help..

Well, it depends, maybe they are delusional in some ( or great) extent. Let's see Ramana, papaji, mooji, adyashanti, gangaji . They and others gurus of non-dual spirituality point a central concept that is rarely examined with rigor: the Self. It is claimed that when identification with the body, the mind, or personal history ceases, something remains that is what we “really are.” This experiential residue is then labeled Self, Being, Consciousness, or Presence. The problem is not the experience itself, but the ontological leap that is made from it.

The problem is that all of them after saying that there is not identification, identify that self as consciousness . So, that self is because there is observation , awareness. Awareness of what? Pure awareness! That's simply anthropomorphize reality and replace one center and one identification with another, one closure with another.

Ramana and Papaji operated from a place of closure, with an absolute limit, however peaceful they may have been. Nisgardata, for example, operated from a place of openness, which was very different. But Nisgardata wasn't an intellectual and his explanations are too opaque.

Look this: the reasoning is usually circular: the Self is said to exist because there is observation, and observation is said to occur because the Self exists. This explains nothing. It merely converts the fact that experience occurs into a supposedly separate entity that “possesses” it. This is the same conceptual move that, in other contexts, led to the postulation of a soul or an ultimate observer. It's a limited frame, absolute limit in 2 directions: subject and object, even they try to fit in saying that both are the same. So consciousness is a creator of forms? Why? Because it's a dream. Another leap to fit it. If "the consciusness" is dreaming, it's an entity that does things. An absolute identification. Just the old theism with different clothes. Food for the ego. 

Believing “I am consciousness” does not dissolve closure; it replaces it with a subtler, more pleasant, and more stable one. One problematic identity is abandoned only to adopt another that appears unquestionable. But there is still a center, still appropriation, still a position from which one says “this is what I am.” 100% limited, closed, unenlightened. 

True openness does not consist in finding a better identity, but in ceasing to fix any identity as a foundation. It's not simple, and those gurus give simple solutions, so people accept them as true. But they are limited. The absolute is simply unlimited. 

Do you think I'm thinking too much? I don't think so. Just the necessary to don't fall in delusions 

Edited 2 hours ago by Breakingthewall

[Ishanga]

@Breakingthewall I think we get to a point of overthinking and over intellectualizing it for sure.. These Guru's and Saints and such, they all have their way of expressing it, this is there to appeal to all the personality types, karmic types and surface uniqueness that exist thru Human Nature or Egoic nature, its only a starting point imo..

We can go on and on forever with this stuff (just see all the threads, posts, replies here, just think of all the other forums, other avenues of discussion, analyzing, rehashing, arguments thru history) and where does it all lead.. This place Actualized.org is perfect example, its full of ego and identification, dick measuring, your wrong/I'm right, no one really listens to what anyone else is saying/writing, this just go on and on with their ideologies and discussions, then You see them posting in the mental health section talking about being addicted to this or that drug or ssri or whatever, so its a joke in a way..

We can share all we want, but in the end its forgotten tomorrow, but what is our present state of Awareness, can I go outside and just see a tree without labelling it and feel connected?? Most cannot do this, I have trouble sometimes doing this but I can do it at times... But if You like it and it empowers You continue on, I appreciate Your sharing and how You see it and explain things lately allot:)

[Breakingthewall]

22 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

But if You like it and it empowers You continue on, I appreciate Your sharing and how You see it and explain things lately allot:)

Great that you like, I really try the most deep understanding that I can. Just because it's a fascinating topic in which real perceptions are mixed with the inevitable psychological need for permanence inherent in being human; it's like an unavoidable tension. 

[Ishanga]

@Breakingthewall For sure it beats "I am just imagining You and everything else, I took a drug and now I am GOD, bow down to my wisdom, bow down to my presence" that goes on around here lol...

Edited 50 minutes ago by Ishanga

[Joseph Maynor]

5 hours ago, Ishanga said:

Its a better identification if You know experientially that You are not the Body or Mind, if that is true for You then the identity shifts to higher up ones, where sooner or later You are Absolute in Embodied form internally.  We can still live and play the game of life here, but we don't suffer thru it and not realize what our truest Potential is.. 

Its very very hard not to have some sort of Identity while being Embodied, the key is to create it Consciously under Your own Will and Awareness.

Very well said.

[Breakingthewall]

35 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

@Breakingthewall For sure it beats "I am just imagining You and everything else, I took a drug and now I am GOD, bow down to my wisdom, bow down to my presence" that goes on around here lol...

It depends! If Leo had started with ambiguous ideas, no one would have listened. Leo's message is direct and resonates with people, and it has a unique quality: it stems from states of openness induced by psychedelics, but openess in great extent.

It has inevitable structural flaws because Leo immediately developed a worldview, and now he can't undo it, but the foundation, the root of his message, points in some way to openness. Afterward, 99.9% of people will remain on the surface, but at least they will have opened their minds to spirituality as a possibility not as a belief but as a reality 

Edited 15 minutes ago by Breakingthewall