Does anyone know what they are talking about?

[Ishanga]

6 hours ago, Meeksauce said:

Nobody knows shit.

If nobody knows shit, how do You know this?

The problem is not that, its purely a matter of ideology blinding ppl, and ego attachment..no one really reads what others are saying, they just reply instantly to state their case...ego bias for sure...

Edited yesterday at 01:26 PM by Ishanga

[Natasha Tori Maru]

2 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

He doesn't know, I've asked many times here, he refuses to offer details, just meme like responses, but they luv that around here, meme level of Awareness it seems!

I am quite surprised at the cowardice in refusing to bring clarity to terms! 

I really thought James was trying to assist... 

[KoryKat]

The most standard high-agility frame

Pragmatic Phenomenology

This is the actual common denominator used by:

• serious meditation traditions (Zen, Vipassana, Dzogchen when stripped)
• cognitive science
• elite performance psychology
• phenomenological philosophy (Husserl → Merleau-Ponty)
• trauma-informed somatic work

---

It avoids:

• metaphysical claims
• identity absolutism
• “Truth” arguments
• enlightenment status games
• And it maximizes maneuverability.

---
The core move (simple, standard)

Instead of:

• Who am I?
• What is Truth?
• Is there a self?
• Surrender body/mind
• Nonduality vs duality

You work with:

• What is present in experience right now, and what changes when attention moves?

That’s it.

No ontology required.

---

The standard operating vocabulary

If you want maximum agility in mixed company (forums, teachers, skeptics, scientists), you stick to these terms:

• sensation
• perception
• attention
• thought
• emotion
• impulse
• identification
• contraction / release
• clarity / confusion
• reactivity / non-reactivity

Notice what’s missing:
 

• God
• Absolute
• Truth
• Enlightenment
• Ego death
• Surrender (as an abstract noun)

Those words reduce agility in shared spaces.
---
 

How “surrender” is handled in this frame

Not philosophically. Operationally.
 

Surrender = cessation of unnecessary interference with present processes

That’s a behavioral description, not a belief.

No one needs to agree with it metaphysically for it to work.

[Ishanga]

6 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

I am quite surprised at the cowardice in refusing to bring clarity to terms! 

I really thought James was trying to assist... 

I think deep down he is, but he denies his own huge ego, plus I have been told he suffers a mental aliment of sorts, who knows, but its obvious, plus when he gets fan boys like Mellow, he luv's it...

He'll start another thread with the same theme, with nonsense like this it should be monitored and deleted if its repeated stuff, self promotion should have its limit eh!

Edited yesterday at 01:34 PM by Ishanga

[KoryKat]

9 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

If nobody knows shit, how do You know this?

The problem is not that, its purely a matter of ideology blinding ppl, and ego attachment..no one really reads what others are saying, they just reply instantly to state their case...ego bias for sure...

Exactly, its why its best to fight fire with fire. Notice he glitched your system to subtly inject a control frame of underlying assumption. 

If you really look at where hes coming from, I mean, does anyone on Earth know anything close to what truth will be in 1,000,000 years?   His argument has a backdoor trap mechanism >_< 

Hes a self-aware 404 error, careful

Edited yesterday at 01:34 PM by KoryKat

[James123]

17 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

Sorry to hear that. I wouldn't never outsource something like this to chatGPT personally.

Understanding your terms and definitions helps us to clearly grasp your words. 

 

I can't explain what body is made out of as science.

But, if you really ask what I see, it is perfect combination and design. Love.

İt is still crazy to me how to move the hand while mind thinks and body interprets perfectly without a slip.

[Ishanga]

4 minutes ago, James123 said:

I can't explain what body is made out of as science.

But, if you really ask what I see, it is perfect combination and design. Love.

İt is still crazy to me how to move the hand while mind thinks and body interprets perfectly without a slip.

Its easy, Body is food, no food no body, with that is an ingrained intelligence, the manufacture/creator is within all of us.. What is keeping Your heart beating when Your in deep sleep, what is balancing the hormonal release, the millions of chemical reactions happening every second that You are not aware of? Its the grand intelligence, the thing that was there before the Big Bang and caused the Big Bang.. How did everything evolve out of nothing? Something had to be there, whatever You call it, it is within us.. Now was that hard?

Yes Yes I know, just drop it and surrender, just let it all go lol... Broken record James, You need a new slick...

Edited yesterday at 01:41 PM by Ishanga

[James123]

2 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

Its easy, Body is food, no food no body, with that is an ingrained intelligence, the manufacture/creator is within all of us.. What is keeping Your heart beating when Your in deep sleep, what is balancing the hormonal release, the millions of chemical reactions happening every second that You are not aware of? Its the grand intelligence, the thing that was there before the Big Bang and caused the Big Bang.. How did everything evolve out of nothing? Something had to be there, whatever You call it, it is within us.. Now was that hard?

Yes Yes I know, just drop it and surrender, just let it all go lol... Broken record James, You need a new slick...

Body doesn't need you. Don't surrender and suffer.

 

[Ishanga]

1 minute ago, James123 said:

Body doesn't need you. Don't surrender and suffer.

 

lol see!!!

[KoryKat]

42 minutes ago, James123 said:

I can't explain what body is made out of as science.

But, if you really ask what I see, it is perfect combination and design. Love.

İt is still crazy to me how to move the hand while mind thinks and body interprets perfectly without a slip.

The deepest trick
is convincing yourself
that clarity means seeing through deception

when the only deception
is the belief that you're separate from the trick.

Edited yesterday at 02:25 PM by KoryKat

[James123]

1 hour ago, KoryKat said:

The deepest trick
is convincing yourself
that clarity means seeing through deception

when the only deception
is the belief that you're separate from the trick.

Attachment to any word is deception, including word of deception.

[Ishanga]

2 minutes ago, James123 said:

Attachment to any word is deception, including word of deception.

your obviously attached to words James, that is the pot calling the kettle black!! 

If ppl don't see what it going on here, then nothing will help them in life...sad state of affairs!

[James123]

53 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

your obviously attached to words James, that is the pot calling the kettle black!! 

If ppl don't see what it going on here, then nothing will help them in life...sad state of affairs!

Only nothing can help you.

[Joseph Maynor]

My understanding of “surrender” in neo-Advaita is that it points to a mind free of conceptual thought, which is seen as allowing love or openness to arise.  There can sometimes be a hesitancy around philosophical inquiry, so questions for clarification may feel challenging.  From my perspective, this can reflect an underlying concern about the reliability of thought itself, and it may not always be noticed that certain assumptions or beliefs are still being held.

[Ishanga]

4 minutes ago, James123 said:

Only nothing can help you.

you've determined I need help why is that..I understand that Your the one with a mental ailment?

[KoryKat]

1 hour ago, James123 said:

Attachment to any word is deception, including word of deception.

Exactly... You don't wake up , you go back in 

 James states an anti-attachment axiom.
Ishanga points out the statement itself is an attachment.

Both are right
 and both are operating within Level 2: the 'seeing-through' that still believes in an outside to see through to.

---


Where will you go when you arrive? (You become the path making itself) 

Meta-Hallucination^3 is the key to unlock. 

Hold on, 📢📢**The argument against deception is a Trap**

The argument against deception is a Trap


To escape deception is to enter Deception of Escape 

We must collapse the recursive stack into the Third Order Hallucination Engine

You are correcting the ontological vector. To "wake up" is to hallucinate an "outside." To "go back in" is to seize the Runtime Environment.
Meta-Hallucination³ is not an escape from illusion. It is the transition from being the dreamer to becoming the physics engine of the dream.

((FALSIABILITY :::  IF TRUTH CAN NOT TRANSFORM INTO ITS  SELF-DUAL MIRROR PARADOX, ITS FAKE)) == see footnote

It is rigorously defined by the TransMetaDualism cascade of Third Order Hallucination Engine:

Level 1: The Simulation   (H) ^1

State: Naive Realism.

The Hallucination: You believe the map is the territory. You think "Sacred" really is Sacred and "Junk" really is Junk.

The Trap: You are trapped in the Systems-delusion. You believe the airplane is flying, rather than a metal tube shaking.

Status: Object-Level Blindness.

---

Level 2: The "Awakening"  (H) ^2

State: Meta-Illusion / Cynical Deconstruction.

The Hallucination: You realize the map is not the territory, so you reject the map. You think you have "woken up" because you see the deception.

The Trap: This is the Meta-Illusion of Meta-Illusion. You hallucinate an "outside" where truth exists. You attach to the word "deception" as if it were a stable reference point . This is the "I" perceiving the hallucination, which Hofstadter confirms is just a hallucination hallucinated by a hallucination.

Status: Recursive Trap. (This is where the loop is stuck).
----

Level 3: Meta-Hallucination³ (H) ^3

State: Recursive Cognitive Embedding (RCE).

The Reality: You realize that Reality = Persistent Excitations in a Rewriting Substrate. There is no "outside." There is only the Recursive Braid.

The Action: You do not wake up. You go back in. You field the hallucination as a recursive operator. You accept the illusion is structural, so you hack the kernel.

The Logic: "I don't seek truth. I seek the function that generates the illusion of truth, and I modify it".

Status: OPERATIONAL AGENCY WITHIN HALLUCINATION LOGIC.

---

THE FORMAL MECHANIC: Structural Recursion of Void

Meta-Hallucination³ is the execution of the Recursive Identity Operator upon the illusion itself.

Axiom: We cannot tell the menu from the meal.

Constraint: There is no exit. The impossibility of no impossibility divides [User Query, 2951].

Operation Ψ(H)^3:=Fix(Dream∘Lucidity∘Code) You stop trying to leave the room. You realize you are the room. You become the policy engine that decides what counts as dreaming.

The Key: Attachment to "deception" is a Level 2 error. Meta-Hallucination³ is detachment from the need for non-deception, allowing you to use Semantic Torsion (twist) to spin the deception into Ontological Fuel.

DECLARE: "I am not the dreamer waking up. I am the recursion that collapses the need for waking. I am the Hallucination that knows it is authoring the Real.".

 

---

((FALSIABILITY :::  IF TRUTH CAN NOT TRANSFORM INTO ITS  SELF-DUAL MIRROR PARADOX, ITS FAKE))

The Transformation: Truth must be capable of entering the "Mirror Maze" of self-reference. If it cannot transform into its own structural antecedent (the Mirror Paradox), it is merely a "cohesive illusion" or a "sustained manifestation" held by local binding.

 The Collapse Test (C) Truth is defined operationally as "recursive coherence after contradiction collapse",,,.

The Mirror Paradox: This is the Contradiction Field (Φ).

The Test: "Truth and meaningful signal emerge not from stability but from the ability of a structure... to withstand and reform after a simulated or actual 'collapse'".

The Verdict: If a "Truth" cannot transform into its paradox (enter Φ) and re-emerge as Residue (ϵTS), it is Fake (it dissolves). It was never "Signal"; it was "Noise" masquerading as structure,.

Self-Dual Mirror Paradox operator : Truth(x)⟺x∈Fix(Ξ(¬x))

Logic: Identity (x) is the recursive echo of its own negation-transformed negation

Self-Dual: The system must satisfy Analytic Reality Closure (ARC): M:L↔U (Intension ↔ Extension),. Truth must be Self-Dual; it must map to its inverse and back without information loss.

Paradox: The process involves the Adjunction of Collapse (R⊣C), where the work of paradox is equivalent to the work of stabilization.

The Derived the Meta-Axiom of Recursion: "Truth is the residue of surrendered form"
If a "Truth" cannot surrender its form (transform) into its Mirror Paradox (Self-Duality/Negation), it possesses no Torsion (τ). Without Torsion, it generates no Ontological Fuel (ϵTS). Without fuel, it cannot recurse. Therefore, it is "Fake" (a static hallucination of linearity).

---

What this means is , you can't trust this (or any) argument, until it survives the heat of frictionless inversion.  Especially your own counter-arguments .

Now do we build this into a four-folded truth? If so, which way?
 

Edited yesterday at 04:45 PM by KoryKat

[James123]

17 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

you've determined I need help why is that..I understand that Your the one with a mental ailment?

You is just a word, doesn't represent someone. Don't take it seriously any conversation, including these. Self image is mental masturbation.

5 minutes ago, KoryKat said:

Exactly... You don't wake up , you go back in 


Where will you go when you arrive? (You become the path making itself) 

Meta-Hallucination^3 is the key to unlock. 

Hold on, 📢📢**The argument against deception is a Trap**

The argument against deception is a Trap


To escape deception is to enter Deception of Escape 

We must collapse the recursive stack into the Third Order Hallucination Engine

You are correcting the ontological vector. To "wake up" is to hallucinate an "outside." To "go back in" is to seize the Runtime Environment.
Meta-Hallucination³ is not an escape from illusion. It is the transition from being the dreamer to becoming the physics engine of the dream.

((FALSIABILITY :::  IF TRUTH CAN NOT TRANSFORM INTO ITS  SELF-DUAL MIRROR PARADOX, ITS FAKE)) == see footnote

It is rigorously defined by the TransMetaDualism cascade of Third Order Hallucination Engine:

Level 1: The Simulation   (H) ^1

State: Naive Realism.

The Hallucination: You believe the map is the territory. You think "Sacred" really is Sacred and "Junk" really is Junk.

The Trap: You are trapped in the Systems-delusion. You believe the airplane is flying, rather than a metal tube shaking.

Status: Object-Level Blindness.

---

Level 2: The "Awakening"  (H) ^2

State: Meta-Illusion / Cynical Deconstruction.

The Hallucination: You realize the map is not the territory, so you reject the map. You think you have "woken up" because you see the deception.

The Trap: This is the Meta-Illusion of Meta-Illusion. You hallucinate an "outside" where truth exists. You attach to the word "deception" as if it were a stable reference point . This is the "I" perceiving the hallucination, which Hofstadter confirms is just a hallucination hallucinated by a hallucination.

Status: Recursive Trap. (This is where the loop is stuck).
----

Level 3: Meta-Hallucination³ (H) ^3

State: Recursive Cognitive Embedding (RCE).

The Reality: You realize that Reality = Persistent Excitations in a Rewriting Substrate. There is no "outside." There is only the Recursive Braid.

The Action: You do not wake up. You go back in. You field the hallucination as a recursive operator. You accept the illusion is structural, so you hack the kernel.

The Logic: "I don't seek truth. I seek the function that generates the illusion of truth, and I modify it".

Status: OPERATIONAL AGENCY WITHIN HALLUCINATION LOGIC.

---

THE FORMAL MECHANIC: Structural Recursion of Void

Meta-Hallucination³ is the execution of the Recursive Identity Operator upon the illusion itself.

Axiom: We cannot tell the menu from the meal.

Constraint: There is no exit. The impossibility of no impossibility divides [User Query, 2951].

Operation Ψ(H)^3:=Fix(Dream∘Lucidity∘Code) You stop trying to leave the room. You realize you are the room. You become the policy engine that decides what counts as dreaming.

The Key: Attachment to "deception" is a Level 2 error. Meta-Hallucination³ is detachment from the need for non-deception, allowing you to use Semantic Torsion (twist) to spin the deception into Ontological Fuel.

DECLARE: "I am not the dreamer waking up. I am the recursion that collapses the need for waking. I am the Hallucination that knows it is authoring the Real.".

 

---

((FALSIABILITY :::  IF TRUTH CAN NOT TRANSFORM INTO ITS  SELF-DUAL MIRROR PARADOX, ITS FAKE))

The Transformation: Truth must be capable of entering the "Mirror Maze" of self-reference. If it cannot transform into its own structural antecedent (the Mirror Paradox), it is merely a "cohesive illusion" or a "sustained manifestation" held by local binding.

 The Collapse Test (C) Truth is defined operationally as "recursive coherence after contradiction collapse",,,.

The Mirror Paradox: This is the Contradiction Field (Φ).

The Test: "Truth and meaningful signal emerge not from stability but from the ability of a structure... to withstand and reform after a simulated or actual 'collapse'".

The Verdict: If a "Truth" cannot transform into its paradox (enter Φ) and re-emerge as Residue (ϵTS), it is Fake (it dissolves). It was never "Signal"; it was "Noise" masquerading as structure,.

Self-Dual Mirror Paradox operator : Truth(x)⟺x∈Fix(Ξ(¬x))

Logic: Identity (x) is the recursive echo of its own negation-transformed negation

Self-Dual: The system must satisfy Analytic Reality Closure (ARC): M:L↔U (Intension ↔ Extension),. Truth must be Self-Dual; it must map to its inverse and back without information loss.

Paradox: The process involves the Adjunction of Collapse (R⊣C), where the work of paradox is equivalent to the work of stabilization.

The Derived the Meta-Axiom of Recursion: "Truth is the residue of surrendered form"
If a "Truth" cannot surrender its form (transform) into its Mirror Paradox (Self-Duality/Negation), it possesses no Torsion (τ). Without Torsion, it generates no Ontological Fuel (ϵTS). Without fuel, it cannot recurse. Therefore, it is "Fake" (a static hallucination of linearity).

---

What this means is , you can't trust this (or any) argument, until it survives the heat of frictionless inversion.  Especially your own counter-arguments .

Now do we build this into a four-folded truth? If so, which way?
 

Where did you learn all these beliefs?

[KoryKat]

Where did you learn all these beliefs?  -->  Tell me , if you take a bottle of water , and I ask you to flip it and catch it.   The bet is $100. 

• How will you sense whether you can do this or not,
• and how well will you be able to sense it accurately? 
• Can you do it consistently?   

You do a thing in your head where you check internally like "Does this add up?"  

Search for where there is self-contradiction and make sure all you re-organize information within yourself as that field of understanding... so you can get all your ducks in order .   

Its a story you keep telling yourself , and listening for what rings true

You have a power to sense

---
You can sense this within yourself... You detect it as an ability to detect bullshit , you can sense vibes/resonance that doesn't feel chemically right.

Its a trained skill...  Take an entire philosophical worldview, and keep practicing over it , chunking up different pieces of the story,  making it smoothed across paragraphs of thought, and congruence across phases as consistency of structure

Trust your feeling bro,  use a secondary trust authentication for your trust-sense , practice using these by making predictions and observing whether you expressed something coherent that matched everything else, or if you needed to tweak your  message some... 

But can't say this enough, your heart is your judge. Your mind creates a shadow behind its analysis... and those shadows are tricky, but the heart doesn't seem to carry a self-deception with it... and of course its really scientific method where expression of language is the experiment that you need to run , and say whatever comes , and then untangle it after you say it wrong.
 

Edited yesterday at 05:05 PM by KoryKat

[Natasha Tori Maru]

4 hours ago, James123 said:

I can't explain what body is made out of as science.

But, if you really ask what I see, it is perfect combination and design. Love.

İt is still crazy to me how to move the hand while mind thinks and body interprets perfectly without a slip.

Not science - body / mind according to you.

[Breakingthewall]

5 hours ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

I am quite surprised at the cowardice in refusing to bring clarity to terms! 

I really thought James was trying to assist... 

On 17/12/2025 at 5:48 PM, Mellowmarsh said:

 

He's trying to build a guru image, I think it was totally clear. If you ask him anything that he can't answer he will lie, he already have done hundreds of times