Sold A Story - How adult politics created an American illiteracy epidemic

[Thought Art]

Upon further research I don’t think it was the Lindamood system. It just doesn’t look familiar to me. I wonder what it was….

[Schizophonia]

31 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

Haha, do you listen to his videos? I wouldn’t say his concepts are shallow at all…

It depends; his videos on spirituality/non-duality are very good, and his speaking style makes him pleasant to listen to.

Those that discuss psychology, sociology, or politics are less good.

When I criticize of course it's because I like confrontation; I'm not spitting in the soup.

Edited 8 hours ago by Schizophonia

[Schizophonia]

40 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

I am learning French right

Metropolitan or Quebec's one ? given that your canadian.

C'est similaire mais avec des expressions différentes, et un expression orale, un accent différent.

tabarnak

 

Edited 8 hours ago by Schizophonia

[Thought Art]

@Schizophonia My end goal is Québécois, but the apps teach international French. 

[Schizophonia]

17 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

@Schizophonia My end goal is Québécois, but the apps teach international French. 

D'accord

[Elliott]

2 hours ago, Lyubov said:

It affects everything.

If you have awful phonetics you first and foremost will have a very weak foundation while reading. This will make it hard to fully grasp words and learn new vocabulary. Vocabulary is so important to acquire through reading.

If you lack phonetics you’re going to struggle much more to distinguish the sounds you’re hearing in speech. So your listening as well will be behind.  

Granted if you can already read in one language and are studying a language with some similarities it makes things easier. But yeah, I wouldn’t just overlook phonetics and pronunciation, make sure you have all these sounds down and verbally say them out loud until you can replicate them with ease. 

You're saying this about learning a foreign language, for reading. I understand you have to know the sounds for speaking the words. So, a language that you do not know the words even audibly, focusing on the sounds of the letters, helps you understand the meaning of another foreign word? That's impossible.

[Thought Art]

@Elliott My understanding of phonetics does make reading French easier. Even though it’s different the fact that I understand words as a grouping a building blocks which creates different sounds really helps. It makes understanding conjugations easier.

I however, do not think phonetics exists on an island. It’s just part of learning. 
 

Also, French and English share a lot of words so… in a way phonetics DO help with meaning in this context. Interesting nuance. But, whole words could help here two because the words not only sound similar but look similar.

Edited 6 hours ago by Thought Art

[Elliott]

10 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

@Elliott My understanding of phonetics does make reading French easier.

You understand words you don't know, by the way they're spelled?

 

English is your first language right? Guess any of these meanings, the easiest one, you choose.

 

Adynamia

Anecdotage

Impignorate

Syzygy

Callipygian

Floccinaucinihilipilification

Kakorrhaphiophobia

Accismus

Agelast

Bibble

Cabotage

Collywobbles

Erinaceous

Absquatulate

Agastopia

Convivial

 

Edited 6 hours ago by Elliott

[Leo Gura]

8 minutes ago, Elliott said:

Impignorate

To turn into a pig!

[Elliott]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

To turn into a pig!

Nope, sound it out now.....

[Leo Gura]

To impregnate a pig!

Ex: "Sorry I impignorated your girlfriend, bro."

Edited 6 hours ago by Leo Gura

[Elliott]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

To impregnate a pig!

Focus on mouth shape. You're way off.

[Thought Art]

22 minutes ago, Elliott said:

You understand words you don't know, by the way they're spelled?

 

English is your first language right? Guess any of these meanings, the easiest one, you choose.

 

Adynamia

Anecdotage

Impignorate

Syzygy

Callipygian

Floccinaucinihilipilification

Kakorrhaphiophobia

Accismus

Agelast

Bibble

Cabotage

Collywobbles

Erinaceous

Absquatulate

Agastopia

Convivial

 

Bro, I’m not understanding the whole fucking language. 
 

Lot’s of English words come from French. Those words I can understand based on the phonetics. Common fucking sense. Stop being a dick.

Any idea what this word in French means?

”Musique”?

 

Arts / Entertainment:

 

Musique → Music

Danse → Dance

Poésie → Poetry

Théâtre → Theater

Ballet → Ballet

Chanson → Song (sometimes “chanson” in English contexts)

 

 

Everyday / Objects:

 

Table → Table

Porte → Port (as in airport)

Livre → Library / Livre (book in French, but “livre” influenced “library”)

Maison → Mansion (originally “maison” = house)

 

 

Food / Culinary:

 

Pain → Pan (bread)

Fromage → Fromage (cheese; English sometimes borrows the term for fancy menus)

Vin → Wine

Café → Café

 

 

Abstract / Concepts:

 

Raison → Reason

Lumière → Light / Illumination

Nature → Nature

Vérité → Verity (truth)

Armée → Army

Justice → Justice

 

 

Science / Learning:

 

École → School (from Latin schola, via French)

Université → University

Histoire → History

Philosophie → Philosophy

Société → Society

 

 

Other common words:

 

Famille → Family

Route → Route

Minute → Minute

Important → Important

Chatgpt gave these shitty examples

Edited 6 hours ago by Thought Art

[BlueOak]

Rosetta stones approach was great here's a summary from duckduckgo:

Rosetta Stone's language teaching method, known as Dynamic Immersion, uses real-world images, audio from native speakers, and interactive activities to help learners acquire a new language naturally, similar to how children learn their first language.

To be honest it helped me a great deal learning languages as it appeals to and uses different parts of the brain.

Edited 6 hours ago by BlueOak

[Elliott]

13 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

Bro, I’m not understanding the whole fucking language. 
 

Lot’s of English words come from French. Those words I can understand based on the phonetics. Common fucking sense. Stop being a dick.

Any idea what this word in French means?

”Musique”?

Without phonetics, you don't think you would have suspected music? Especially with context. You're GUESSING, like Leo with pigs. You focus on the study of French "que" sound?

Again, this is an OBVIOUS example of low hanging fruit words, not any sort of understanding.

Edited 5 hours ago by Elliott

[Thought Art]

@Elliott They sound extremely similar. Because we know this history of our language. Many English words are literally from French. It is one of the things that makes French easier to learn is the phonetic similarities. Is it hard proof and conclusive you know what it means? Nope. But, the phonetic similarities of the languages given French shaped modern English is useful to learners. 
 

Can’t know 100%, but that wasn’t my fucking claim. My claim is it helps make learning French easier. Which it does.
 

Stop being a dick. You misconstrue what I say and it’s very annoying.

Edited 5 hours ago by Thought Art

[Elliott]

2 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

@Elliott They sound extremely similar. Because we know this history of our language. Many English words are literally from French. It is one of the things that makes French easier to learn is the phonetic similarities. Is it hard proof and conclusive you know what it means? Nope. But, the phonetic similarities of the languages given French shaped modern English is useful to learners. 
 

Stop being a dick. You misconstrue what I say and it’s very annoying.

I'm not being a dick, You're being religiously dogmatic and emotional because you think this 'breakthrough' vindicates your struggles with reading, you're playing victim.

[Thought Art]

@Elliott It did make breakthrough for my reading. 
 

I am open to expanding the nuances of the learning process however, like I’ve said above speaking to you has helped me make some finer distinctions. 
 

I’ve also stated many times before I’m aware of many different aspects of learning. I am by no means boiling all my understanding of English to a single facet or aspect of learning a language, ie phonetics. 
 

For me, phonetics was huge for me, in reading and writing a language I already could speak and had a high comprehension of. So, based on this I’ve come to understand important nuances and limitations of phonetics in learning a language. That being said, phonetics is important. As the article you shared states, as part of a more holistic and balanced approach. It doesn’t predict comprehension, etc and I’m fine with that. 
 

For me, the phonetic piece of the puzzle opened a door way where I was no longer impeded by not being able to read, or at least sound out words and gain its meaning through the text I am reading. There are aspects if learning phonetics that did help with word meaning in some context… for example "ing" being an action, or "ed" meaning past tense depending on context. 

So instead assuming you know what I meant and trying to debunk me maybe seek more clarity.
 

I think the OP posted the core issue and point was sight reading vs Phonetic understanding. At that level I stand phonetic is better. But, for larger understanding of complete literacy I was not speaking about. 
 

For comprehension and deeper levels of understanding I’m open to learning more about the reality around that. Being able to actually read and write helps with comprehension is kind of obvious as a starter. 

Edited 5 hours ago by Thought Art

[Nemra]

I think English phonetics are more useful to non-natives who want to learn English when they aren't surrounded with natives 24/7.

15 minutes ago, BlueOak said:

To be honest it helped me a great deal learning languages as it appeals to and uses different parts of the brain.

Me too.

[Elliott]

2 minutes ago, Nemra said:

I think English phonetics are more useful to non-natives who want to learn English when they aren't surrounded with natives 24/7.

Me too.

To read, or speak? Why would being around natives 24/7 make phonetics less useful for reading?