Question for Leo: Metaphysics of Impermanence and “Endless” Dreams

[Kiyo1104]

Hi, Leo, I’m trying to understand a subtle metaphysical point you’ve talked about. 

You’ve said that no illusion can be permanent, because any imagined state eventually collapses into a deeper truth.
In your own words: 
"Truth cannot be hidden, denied, or avoided indefinitely. Falsehood and illusion are always a finite game. Falsehood and illusion are unsustainable because they are self-contradictory. God must be itself. God cannot not be God. Because Truth is itself. If Truth was not itself, it would be falsehood, which is absolutely impossible."

At the same time, God can imagine any state or dream, even one that seems endless.
For example, God could imagine an eternal-feeling dream of pure stillness or bliss.
Does this mean God can dream an experience that APPEARS to last forever in linear time (the same way a human can dream something that feels endless) even though it still ultimately collapses? 

In other words, how does the impossibility of true permanence reconcile with the possibility of imagining a dream-state that feels eternal?

I’d really appreciate any clarity on this — I’m genuinely curious about how these pieces fit together.

[Malkom]

don't try to understand, just feel

[tuku747]

52 minutes ago, Malkom said:

don't try to understand, just feel

Hmmm isn't this called anti-intellectualism 🤔 

[Sugarcoat]

When you’re trying to sleep but you think about the possibility of being tortured for eternity…

 

Edited 3 hours ago by Sugarcoat

[Malkom]

24 minutes ago, tuku747 said:

Hmmm isn't this called anti-intellectualism 🤔

Contrary to popular belief, a thought is not a feeling. It doesn't correspond to reality. Any feeling, any thought, is always a thought-feeling. Another question is how high you think; if you do, then your feelings can be transcendental. This is just an example, not in the literal sense.

Feelings—I feel in love, I feel elated, I feel inspired, I feel alive, I feel inspired... These feelings are also thoughts. And yet, the feelings I just described differ from each other. Gradations, so to speak. And there are many of them.

If we say there are no feelings, fine. I feel coldness, I feel detachment, I feel confusion, I feel bewilderment, I feel indifference, I feel emptiness...

There are many of them, and to hide behind the absence of thoughts means to hide behind this feeling; in any case, this cannot be avoided.

 

P.S. The AI translator repeated the same word, although there are two different words and different meanings.  I feel "inspired", I feel alive, I feel "inspired" So it's untranslatable.

I feel frustrated,I feel helpless, I feel angry, I feel joy  a visual example online, impromptu.

Edited 3 hours ago by Malkom

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Kiyo1104 said:

In other words, how does the impossibility of true permanence reconcile with the possibility of imagining a dream-state that feels eternal?

Any state, sensation, existence, or universe must be limited, since in the absence of limits there is the absolute, which is not something, but total openness, the unfathomable void, the nothingness that is everything, however you want to call it.

Therefore, any limited reality carries its own limit; it cannot be eternal because that would be unlimited, and it is limited by definition.

[Someone here]

30 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

When you’re trying to sleep but you think about the possibility of being tortured for eternity…

 

@Sugarcoat there is no hell.  Sleep like a baby. 

[JosephKnecht]

2 hours ago, Kiyo1104 said:

Does this mean God can dream an experience that APPEARS to last forever in linear time (the same way a human can dream something that feels endless) even though it still ultimately collapses? 

You are dreaming. 

Linear is a dream. Time is a dream. 

It can appear to last forever, until you wake up.  

 

[Kiyo1104]

3 hours ago, Malkom said:

don't try to understand, just feel

I read your explanation in the comment below, but still don't think that 'just feeling' is the right approach in this case. I'm aware of the many traps of thinking too much in this work, but I have also seen great explanations that were able to cut through so much bullshit and help me save a lot of time from self deception.

2 hours ago, Sugarcoat said:

When you’re trying to sleep but you think about the possibility of being tortured for eternity…

 

That sure does sound unnerving...

2 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

Any state, sensation, existence, or universe must be limited, since in the absence of limits there is the absolute, which is not something, but total openness, the unfathomable void, the nothingness that is everything, however you want to call it.

Therefore, any limited reality carries its own limit; it cannot be eternal because that would be unlimited, and it is limited by definition.

Thank you. That explanation seems the most concrete to me.

1 hour ago, JosephKnecht said:

You are dreaming. 

Linear is a dream. Time is a dream. 

It can appear to last forever, until you wake up.  

 

Thank you. I had an insight of time being a part of the illusion, and that's why I lean into the whole 'APPEARS to last forever UNTIL you wake up' approach as well.

[Yimpa]

You joined 7 years ago, what made you decide to finally post now? 

My question has been telepathically answered ^.^

Edited 29 minutes ago by Yimpa

[Kiyo1104]

10 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

I no longer trust new or "recent" accounts.

Well, I'm sorry if I caused suspicion.

I tried creating a profile recently, but failed somewhere in the authentication process. Today I discovered that I had already registered via this account who knows how long ago and decided to ask the question that has had me puzzled for quite some time.

I don't intend to cause problems, but I realize you cannot know that from your perspective. Ban me if you see anything unusual. I'm just curious about Leo's answer to this question.

 

[Kiyo1104]

9 minutes ago, Yimpa said:

You joined 7 years ago, what made you decide to finally post now? 

Well, I've been following Leo since 2016.

Up till now, whenever I wanted to find the answer to some question that intrigued me, I managed to find it either by watching Leo's videos or reading already existing threads on the forum. So I suppose that I created the account earlier to ask something, but never did since I found the answer.

However, this is THE one question that I couldn't find the direct answer to. So I tried making an account to ask it, failed in registration, tried again with this email address, and it said that this email is already in use, so I figured that the account already exist. And here I am 😅

[Breakingthewall]

14 minutes ago, Kiyo1104 said:

Thank you. I had an insight of time being a part of the illusion, and that's why I lean into the whole 'APPEARS to last forever UNTIL you wake up' approach as well.

Reality is neither an illusion nor a dream. That would imply a subject with certain characteristics performing an action, dreaming, which is interrupted, and that subject realizes that this reality was false and that their reality upon waking, which is different, is real.

This is impossible. If "God" were to realize that everything was a dream, "realizing" would be another dream. The absolute total is not an entity, not someone who chooses, decides, or acts; it is reality itself, absolute being.

Absolute means without limitation, and without limitation means without attributes or actions. Reality simply is. What appears are manifested possibilities.