What's the point of trying to understand reality, if reality is mystical?

[Breakingthewall]

@Inliytened1 ah you mean how. Same than anything else that exists, by relationship synchronized creating patterns over patterns of fluctuations that creates stable forms. Just as an atom but more complex. Existence is always that. Fluctuations that mesh and create patterns. 

Edited 13 hours ago by Breakingthewall

[Inliytened1]

4 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

What you call consciousness is created by the brain and sensory organs,

 

 

How is it created..Just magically? Really think this one through.  

[Breakingthewall]

7 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

How is it created..Just magically? Really think this one through.  

Forms appear because there are no limits. Staticity is impossible; reality is always dynamic. There is always fluctuation, contrast, and a breaking of symmetries.

It seems an inevitable law that the most coherent possibility prevails. This occurs from subatomic scales to the evolution of species. It is not magic; it is limitlessness. It is inevitable. 

[Breakingthewall]

15 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

How is it created..Just magically? Really think this one through.  

 

18 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

@Inliytened1 ah you mean how. Same than anything else that exists, by relationship synchronized creating patterns over patterns of fluctuations that creates stable forms. Just as an atom but more complex. Existence is always that. Fluctuations that mesh and create patterns. 

 

[Breakingthewall]

@Inliytened1 but look, that the reality is not "magic" doesn't mean that it's not glorious. Opening yourself to the total is absolute glory, total freedom, the end of the lack, the end of the searching. It's total. But it's just absence of limits. Just that. 

[Inliytened1]

41 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

 

 

You're funny.  But words such as"by relationship synchronized creating patterns over patterns of fluctuations that creates stable forms" does not equal consciousness.   You will never, and nor will any scientist be able to explain the process..because it doesn't exist.  Consciousness created the neurons. Once you understand this you can understand reality..but not before.  You use words like infinity but it seems like you use them when convenient.   A bunch of BS if you ask me.

[Breakingthewall]

8 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

A bunch of BS if you ask me.

Well, that's your opinion. I think that after so much effort and explanation, saying that offensive words defines you. Congratulations. Inlightened absolutely, as your nickname saiys

Edited 12 hours ago by Breakingthewall

[Ishanga]

5 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

Forms appear because there are no limits. Staticity is impossible; reality is always dynamic. There is always fluctuation, contrast, and a breaking of symmetries.

It seems an inevitable law that the most coherent possibility prevails. This occurs from subatomic scales to the evolution of species. It is not magic; it is limitlessness. It is inevitable. 

Yes, but the most basic essence of reality imo is not dynamism but stillness or staticty, this is the foundation of all creation, think of a clear and still small lake, perfect in sight and completely silent, that is the basis of creation, then a rock is thrown into it, ripples flow out, that is creation being born and expanding, but eventually the ripples dissipate and end, then its back to stillness/staticity and silence again...

Everything has a foundation, its just a matter of breaking it all down, something is standing upon something else, for dynamism or movement to happen it has to have a stable, still base, so stillness is basic foundation of everything existing...

If everything came from nothing (Shiva-"That which is Not") then stillness is nothing, dynamism/movement/change is something...

Edited 8 hours ago by Ishanga

[Inliytened1]

@Ishanga the question is is consciousness made of atoms or is it just mystical.

[Joshe]

You can't fully understand reality. The whole pursuit is neurotic. Even if you could, you're a human. So guess what, you're understanding would amount to that of understanding how David Copperfield moves mountains. Once the magic trick is revealed, the magic is no longer magic. Back to reality. Which is why they say "chop wood carry water" before AND after enlightenment. This concept is important. 

What do you think you're going to achieve with some "mental recognition" or some "mental knowing"? All you have is some "special knowledge" from your meditation or psychedelic cushion that 99% of people could care less about. 

You can sit there and yell "YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND" for a few years until you get tired. 

Reality itself is entirely magical. Obviously. And you can be absolutely thrilled by it. But to hope to possess some special knowing that others don't have access to - then you're heading into psychosis. Even if you did reach that point, your best play is to keep your mouth shut and just appreciate the magic.

As soon as you start professing how much you know about the magic, it's time to begin an entirely new inquiry.

Edited 7 hours ago by Joshe

[Inliytened1]

39 minutes ago, Joshe said:

You can't fully understand reality. The whole pursuit is neurotic. Even if you could, you're a human. So guess what, you're understanding would amount to that of understanding how David Copperfield moves mountains. Once the magic trick is revealed, the magic is no longer magic. Back to reality. Which is why they say "chop wood carry water" before AND after enlightenment. This concept is important. 

What do you think you're going to achieve with some "mental recognition" or some "mental knowing"? All you have is some "special knowledge" from your meditation or psychedelic cushion that 99% of people could care less about. 

You can sit there and yell "YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND" for a few years until you get tired. 

Reality itself is entirely magical. Obviously. And you can be absolutely thrilled by it. But to hope to possess some special knowing that others don't have access to - then you're heading into psychosis. Even if you did reach that point, your best play is to keep your mouth shut and just appreciate the magic.

As soon as you start professing how much you know about the magic, it's time to begin an entirely new inquiry.

Nice of you to delve into these waters.   Good to see you here and its about time.

You can know reality fully and. completely.  It's known as enlightenment.  With enlightenment the human or the self drops. So you do become fully aware that you are God and fully omniscient.  I don't think you comprehend the depths to which this goes.  The entire dream ceases to be.  This dream on which you can post and message me.  All of it goes away.  You do become reality. 

Edited 6 hours ago by Inliytened1

[Someone here]

1 hour ago, Joshe said:

You can't fully understand reality. The whole pursuit is neurotic. Even if you could, you're a human. So guess what, you're understanding would amount to that of understanding how David Copperfield moves mountains. Once the magic trick is revealed, the magic is no longer magic. Back to reality. Which is why they say "chop wood carry water" before AND after enlightenment. This concept is important. 

What do you think you're going to achieve with some "mental recognition" or some "mental knowing"? All you have is some "special knowledge" from your meditation or psychedelic cushion that 99% of people could care less about. 

You can sit there and yell "YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND" for a few years until you get tired. 

Reality itself is entirely magical. Obviously. And you can be absolutely thrilled by it. But to hope to possess some special knowing that others don't have access to - then you're heading into psychosis. Even if you did reach that point, your best play is to keep your mouth shut and just appreciate the magic.

As soon as you start professing how much you know about the magic, it's time to begin an entirely new inquiry.

THIS!!

[Joshe]

1 hour ago, Inliytened1 said:

Nice of you to delve into these waters.   Good to see you here and its about time.

 

No matter how much I disagree with you, I do like you among the best here. 😆TBH, it's because your profile picture. I can tell who you are from your profile pic alone. Last I recall, you were going through a rough time, so I hope all is well now. All good? 

1 hour ago, Inliytened1 said:

You can know reality fully and. completely.  It's known as enlightenment.  With enlightenment the human or the self drops. So you do become fully aware that you are God and fully omniscient.  I don't think you comprehend the depths to which this goes.  The entire dream ceases to be.  This dream on which you can post and message me.  All of it goes away.  You do become reality. 

Onto the substance:

You cannot know reality fully and completely. 

If you could, can you tell me the exact position and composition of every particle in my body? If you can't, can you explain why? Could you answer this question even from your highest altered state?

Obviously, you cannot answer these questions. Maybe you will answer "Those are just abstractions that don't exist, therefore not knowable." Weak, but ok. 

Thing is, I know that when I cease to exist, everything ceases to exist. But I know that I cannot cease to exist because I'm all there is and all that ever will be. But I get no special privilege from this knowledge. So what benefit is gained by knowing this?

OP asked "What's the point?" What do you gain? Aside from some special subjective feeling?

NOTHING! That's all there is 😂! You gain absolutely nothing except some idea. Some knowing how the magic trick works.

I'm open to being wrong. 

Edited 4 hours ago by Joshe

[Inliytened1]

27 minutes ago, Joshe said:

No matter how much I disagree with you, I do like you among the best here. 😆TBH, it's because your profile picture. I can tell who you are from your profile pic alone. Last I recall, you were going through a rough time, so I hope all is well now. All good? 

Onto the substance:

You cannot know reality fully and completely. 

If you could, can you tell me the exact position and composition of every particle in my body?

For this..does reality have to be objective? I don't think it does.. if it were, lets say, a dream, in which you were God dreaming it up..humor me here..then particles would be imaginary.    Positions would be imaginary.  Everything would be Mind.  I think you touched on it yourself when you mentioned that when you cease to exist it all goes away. This tells me that you already intuit what I was saying.  That reality is not objective but rather quite subjective although a subject is the wrong word too. Lets just say you're dreaming everything.. 

Edited 4 hours ago by Inliytened1

[Breakingthewall]

4 hours ago, Ishanga said:

Yes, but the most basic essence of reality imo is not dynamism but stillness or staticty, this is the foundation of all creation, think of a clear and still small lake, perfect in sight and completely silent, that is the basis of creation, then a rock is thrown into it, ripples flow out, that is creation being born and expanding, but eventually the ripples dissipate and end, then its back to stillness/staticity and silence again...

Everything has a foundation, its just a matter of breaking it all down, something is standing upon something else, for dynamism or movement to happen it has to have a stable, still base, so stillness is basic foundation of everything existing...

If everything came from nothing (Shiva-"That which is Not") then stillness is nothing, dynamism/movement/change is something...

Yeah the essence of reality is still, it's manifestation is dynamic. The absolute is always the unlimited, without form. Can't change because it's formless, but it expression is always changing. 

Edited 4 hours ago by Breakingthewall

[Inliytened1]

14 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Yeah the essence of reality is still, it's manifestation is dynamic. The absolute is always the unlimited, without form. Can't change because it's formless, but it expression is always changing. 

You say this yet you also claim a concrete process in which consciousness is derived from.  That neurons create consciousness.  Yet this concrete process you fail to decipher. 

[Joshe]

29 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

For this..does reality have to be objective? I don't think it does.. if it were, lets say, a dream, in which you were God dreaming it up..humor me here..then particles would be imaginary.    Positions would be imaginary.  Everything would be Mind.  

It is a dream, and everything is imaginary.

Particles are - like everything else in the dream, (including omniscience), imaginary. Particles are part of the dream if you invoke them, same as "omniscience".

Back to the here and now:

Does your omniscience require inquiry and effort or is your omniscience automatic? 

If you are truly omniscient inside a reality (that includes me) that has the potential for infinite abstractions within infinite abstractions, then you should be able to tell me about those abstractions that I otherwise wouldn't know without you telling me.

So, what did I have for lunch and how did it impact my gut health?

If you can't answer, then what exactly do you mean by "omniscient"?

Edited 3 hours ago by Joshe

[Inliytened1]

23 minutes ago, Joshe said:

It is a dream, and everything is imaginary.

Particles are - like everything else in the dream, (including omniscience), imaginary. Particles are part of the dream if you invoke them, same as "omniscience".

Back to the here and now:

Does your omniscience require inquiry and effort or is your omniscience automatic? 

If you are truly omniscient inside a reality (that includes me) that has the potential for infinite abstractions within infinite abstractions, then you should be able to tell me about those abstractions that I otherwise wouldn't know without you telling me.

So, what did I have for lunch and how did it impact my gut health?

If you can't answer, then what exactly do you mean by "omniscient"?

Good question but yet its still very silly.  If I were omniscient I would also be able to tell you the particular matter of the star dust that fell on Mars today.   I could tell you based on my microscopes the precise anatomy of the stardust.

But this assumes all this Is happening outside of my direct experience.  Can you confirm I am typing this in my chair right now in your direct experience.  Most likely not.  

What I am saying is omniscience doesn't work like that because it doesn't need to.  All of that which you think is occurring independent of you is truly imaginary.   That's why, awakening involves the dissolution of not only self but other. 

Omniscience is more about a full understanding of reality and what you are.  The details you specified dont matter because really they don't exist.  Im not going to need to report every sneeze I make. 

Edited 3 hours ago by Inliytened1

[Joshe]

27 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Good question but yet its still very silly.  If I were omniscient I would also be able to tell you the particular matter of the star dust that fell on Mars today.   I could tell you based on my microscopes the precise anatomy of the stardust.

But this assumes all this Is happening outside of my direct experience.  Can you confirm I am typing this in my chair right now in your direct experience.  Most likely not.  

What I am saying is omniscience doesn't work like that because it doesn't need to.  All of that which you think is occurring independent of you is truly imaginary.   That's why, awakening involves the dissolution of not only self but other. 

Omniscience is more about a full understanding of reality and what you are.  The details you specified dont matter because really they don't exist.  Im not going to need to report every sneeze I make. 

It doesn't matter what is happening outside myself right now. Since I'm talking to you, I assume you're a human on some kind of keyboard, because the dream requires that degree of coherence in order to persist. 

And since you mentioned a "chair", my guess is you're in a chair right now instead of a bed. But these are only abstractions that I come to be aware of as reality provides me this information. Reality reveals the truth of these abstractions as it unfolds. I do not know them before they present themselves. 

But omniscience is the state of knowing all. So maybe you shouldn't have used the word "omniscient". Maybe should have used a word like "construct-aware"?

At the least, admit the word "omniscience" was misused.

 

Edited 3 hours ago by Joshe

[Inliytened1]

6 minutes ago, Joshe said:

It doesn't matter what is happening outside myself right now. Since I'm talking to you, I assume you're a human on some kind of keyboard, because the dream requires that degree of coherence so that it can persist.

And since you mentioned a "chair", my guess is you're in a chair right now instead of a bed. But these are only abstractions that I come to be aware of as reality provides me this information. Reality reveals the truth of these abstractions as it unfolds. I do not know them before they present themselves. 

But omniscience is the state of knowing all. So maybe you shouldn't have used the word "omniscient". Maybe should have used a word like "construct-aware"?

At the least, admit the word "omniscience" was misused.

 

I cant describe it to you but it is a state.   And if you ever do become omniscient you will know and understand all. Isn't that all that matters.  In that moment what Josh or David had for breakfast doesn't mean anything    

Edited 3 hours ago by Inliytened1