Tier 2 debates tier 1, Bryan Johnson on jubilee

[Thought Art]

@Natasha Tori Maru Well, I don't like X person for no reason. I always find that a strange question. I only really like X figure based on the ideas or value I get from them. I am open to seeing critiques, etc. I simply don't think that it's correct to call him stupid, ignorant, or not "getting psychedelics" because you personally don't like his own values or life purpose. "Shut up and Die".... Come on, that from the actualized.org guy who made the life purpose course? What joke. Think of all the wild shit people do who take psychedelics. 99% of people who trip are just normies.

My own psychedelics experiences almost always have me wanting to be more healthy, more conscious, more loving, more orgnized, more creative. I don't trip and think "Shut up and die". So fuck off with that horse shit.

Bryan is actually a really good leader, based on my own interpretations and values. He is calm, level headed, scientific, kind and generous. I think humans not dying from a shitty western lifestyle is valuable life purpose and thing to teach. I don't see the issue with teaching health. Health is and should be #1. The fact that this is controversial is a sign of a normal sickness we all live in. 

If you look at my "defense" of Bryan, you also need to look at the "attacks" on him. Then, simply come to your own conclusions on the merit of each. I don't care what you decide. I'll stand my ground at the end of the day on what I think is true. Whether, that changes my feelings on him or not over time has yet to be seen.

 I see a man of vision and integrity that is rare in society in Bryan.

 

Edited 7 hours ago by Thought Art

[Natasha Tori Maru]

There is some contradictory behaviour with Bryan also - don't we think?

I find it strange he dyes his hair, got false teeth, injected fat into his face. Focus' in hair regrowth.

I suppose on the one hand you can say this is part of the experiment - but not all he does it for longevity or the benefit of others. Despite him earnestly attempting to communicate this message. There is vanity there I wonder why he does not own? He could be bypassing this vanity with longevity arguments.

One other part I find odd: if just losing a small amount of sleep or changing schedule so slightly totally bricks your mood/energy/experience I have to wonder about that. It communicates fragility, not resilience.

[Natasha Tori Maru]

@Thought Art Oh yes that is all good - not contesting how you feel or the validity of it.

It just seems like there could be more at stake here - and maybe Leo's reaction is what is at stake for you, and less so Bryan and his worldview !

[Thought Art]

@Natasha Tori Maru What is contradictory about it? Do you ever do things to look the way you want to? He is open about the things he does. i don't see that as contradictory. I am neither here nor there if someone dies their hair or does aesthetic treatments. 

[Thought Art]

@Natasha Tori Maru I am unsure of what you mean at stake? I simply disagree with Leo on this at this time. I do feel some charged emotions because he is someone who made videos on integrity, wisdom, life purpose, and then he bad mouths a guy like Bryan. If what Bryan is doing... promoting health, sleep, mental health, nutrition, etc and changing culture to focus on health... is not a good life purpose.... I just don't get it. Disrespecting a leader I see lots of good in makes me angry coming from someone I respect.

Is Bryan wrong is areas? Probably. Like, he and everyone will die of something. Humans die. I also suspect he is wrong about AI and doesn't see it as hype.

But, I still there is a core quality, and nuggets in what he is doing I find inspiring. He is a model leader.

Edited 6 hours ago by Thought Art

[Natasha Tori Maru]

Just now, Thought Art said:

@Natasha Tori Maru I am unsure of what you mean at stake? I simply disagree with Leo on this at this time. I do feel some charged emotions because he is someone who made videos on integrity and wisdom, and then he bad mouths a guy like Bryan. Disrespecting a leader I see lots of good in makes me angry coming from someone I respect.

This is definitely what I am pertaining to. Leo disagrees with your view - and you are firm in your belief regarding Bryan. It is okay for Leo to disagree - but in the process you are judging Leo. And that is fine as we all do this. But it points to something disowned within you. A discernment would not lead to so much emotional charge. I suppose it is just an emotional connection to Leo (and history). This is a pedestalization effect being projected onto Leo, and a let down over feeling he has not lived up to your standards. But maybe an area of growth is there for you?

So I see you also do this with Bryan - you seem to be pedestalising him also. But in Bryans case, you are dismissing any questionable aspects being raised. This could be a form of cognitive bias in your thinking. Not sure. 

10 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

@Natasha Tori Maru What is contradictory about it? Do you ever do things to look the way you want to? He is open about the things he does. i don't see that as contradictory. I am neither here nor there if someone dies their hair or does aesthetic treatments. 

I suppose I see this as strange as he always has some sort of rationale behind his treatments etc. But he is rather silent on these aspects. Something just does not feel right. Again, this is my perception. Add in the religious stuff, fear of death. Strange netflix documentary where he displays a lot of attachment trauma to his son. He seems unhealed in some aspects. Fractured and trying to grasp at something. Meaning, maybe?

In addition - I do not see him as a leader. Just a dude doing an experiment of n = 1. 

Do you think seeing him as a leader is warranted? Especially as he is attempting to compete with Jesus. Which he has actually said.

[Leo Gura]

I don't really hate him, it's just that I am sick of these biohacker people. They invent a bunch of over-priced useless things. It is a big expensive distraction. But it gives them a sense of purpose because they got nothing better to do.

Dave Asprey is another one of these biohacker grifters.

Edited 6 hours ago by Leo Gura

[Thought Art]

@Natasha Tori Maru Yeah, idk. I likely have some projections on Leo, etc. My mind is processing it. My initial reaction is annoyance. You can psychoanalyze it however you want. Am I putting them on a pedestal? Well, perhaps because they are teachers and influences in my life.

I generally don't like rudeness, or crass behavour toward people I respect. So, when it comes from someone I see as a leader I get annoyed and share my perspective as I have done.

No, you are wrong on the N = 1 thing. That would be true if he was just doing it by himself. But, he isn't. He is leading his own movement influencing 100s of thousands if not millions to sleep, eat, exercise all things which have overwhelming substantiated evidence for better health outcomes for individuals and populations. Nothing he is doing is N = 1 in totality because it's based on research. At the end of the day, N =1 is the only way your health actually works which is the trick to health. That is why he measures himself, and suggest other to as well.

He is a leader, and I think you would be blind not to see it. His social media presence, business and brand, and embodiment of his values is leadership.  and it is rare.

[Thought Art]

3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I don't really hate him, it's just that I am sick of these biohacker people. They invent a bunch of over-priced useless things. It is a big expensive distraction. But it gives them a sense of purpose because they got nothing better to do.

Dave Asprey is another one of these biohacker grifters.

I don't resonate with Dave Asprey.

But, I resonate with Brian Johnson. Beyond his products, his values are good. He provides free information for people to and 90% of it isn't biohacking imo. (loose %) It's common sense.

Having good sleep habits isn't biohacking and seems to be central to a lot of what he teaches. I like what I like and leave the rest. I am not going to be a miniature Bryan Johnson. But, I am very interested in his contributions.

Edited 6 hours ago by Thought Art

[Leo Gura]

@Thought Art If you like him, no problem. Have at it.

[Natasha Tori Maru]

@Thought Art All good I think I was just taken aback at how much emotion was coming through.

However you want to see it, it is N = 1. I guess we disagree

I notice you did not address some of the other issues I raised. 

 

[LoneWonderer]

Bryan Johnson seems to be an evolution in storytelling in the health and longevity field for the masses. Up to now we've had aeging old men from ivi league colleges going on podcasts that could put one to sleep selling a book. Talking about people like Sergey Young, Peter Diamandis & david Sinclair. Bryan is controversial but also engaging, transparent (at least with this project) and is building a real life community (I am worried about trends and it's starting to have many cult aspects to it which is very worrying to see). All this is his appeal. 

He is a good storyteller and his input was greatly needed in the space. However like others have pointed out he is just a human, limited, biased and doing the best he can.

Edited 6 hours ago by LoneWonderer

[Magnanimous]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I hate people who are obsessed with longevity. It's obvious they lack existential depth and overcompensating for it.

Leo as a person who just became an adult can I learn why existential depth removes seeking for longevity?

[enchanted]

There was alot of over lap between @Leo Gura's conscious politics #4 about specific policy implementation and this debate. Seems like Bryan Johnson has some good ideas on how to make society healthier. 

I also like Bryan's idea that "not dying" is the only thing humanity has in common and is a theme that can unify the world. 

[Leo Gura]

17 minutes ago, enchanted said:

Bryan's idea that "not dying" is the only thing humanity has in common

Or, Love 

[Thought Art]

@Natasha Tori Maru

It’s not though. The studies sited clearly aren’t. I can’t respond to everything. If you really think the things he is doing won’t help populations I think that is wrong. I re-read my posts. They ain’t that emotional lol.
 

@Leo Gura Yeah I know… “Shut up and die” was like wtf. 

Edited 4 hours ago by Thought Art

[Hojo]

3 hours ago, Thought Art said:

I don’t know why I find this thread very inauthentic. I mean, you guys have all done psychedelics. You guys all have egos, all want to live tomorrow, you all have values and unique things that you like even though they don’t matter… honestly,  even Leo I just see hypocrisy here. 

If you've done them and seen God you would see that you are already dead in the current moment. To say I want to live tommorow is to say you aren't already dead and with God in the present moment. No one wants to die but its not agreeable that everyone thinks I don't want to die now I want to live tommorow. Thats not up to us thats up to God. We don't want to die but accept it by leaving tommorow to God.

Accept what comes if you stay in the idea of wanting to live tommorow, is making up that tommorow exists and God isn't in control.

Adding on the tommorow part specifically is kinda weird.

Edited 4 hours ago by Hojo

[Thought Art]

2 minutes ago, Hojo said:

If you've done them and seen God you would see that you are already dead in the current moment. To say I want to live tommorow is to say you aren't already dead and with God in the present moment. No one wants to die but its not agreeable that everyone thinks I don't want to die now I want to live tommorow. Thats not up to us thats up to God. We don't want to die but accept it by leaving tommorow to God.

Accept what comes if you stay in the idea of wanting to live tommorow, is making up that tommorow exists and God isn't in control.

Yeah, you may make that conclusion. He didn’t. 
 

I am not even sure that’s how God’s logic works though. 
 

I mean, Bryan Johnson is God. This is his dream. He is eternal at the end of the day. I feel like he is just being born to be honest. 
 

I also think there is a spiritual mind virus on the forum. It’s sneaky. 

Edited 4 hours ago by Thought Art

[Hojo]

@Natasha Tori Maru yes he seems to be obsessed with his perception of looking healthy but terrified of death. Bro you can not look good and exceptional and not die. Theres something else there. Why does he have to look perfect? Why get botox to not die? Why you stealing your sons blood like a vampire? He looks like a vampire come to think of it. 

Next time I see him I'm expecting him to say he filed his teeth down into fangs for science and eternal life.

 

Edited 4 hours ago by Hojo

[Leo Gura]

20 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

@Leo Gura Yeah I know… “Shut up and die” was like wtf. 

It was a tease.

Didn't mean to crap on someone you look up to.

Edited 4 hours ago by Leo Gura