The Psychology of Being Right

[Daniel Balan]

@Leo Gura You made a video where you explain the psychology of being wrong, in short that video is supposed to help us identify when we are wrong about certain topics of any human endeavour.

You say that how can only my worldview be correct while all the other people I interact with hold stupid worldviews?

Sure, I must be wrong on a lot of topics and subjects but the question is:

How do I know when I am right on a subject or topic? 

Edited 13 hours ago by Daniel Balan

[Kksd74628]

@Daniel Balan On factual stuff by multichecking it and on worlview based you are correct if all sides and takes of yours are aligned together.

[Daniel Balan]

3 hours ago, Kksd74628 said:

@Daniel Balan On factual stuff by multichecking it and on worlview based you are correct if all sides and takes of yours are aligned together.

Thanks!

[Daniel Balan]

@Leo Gura please respond

[Daniel Balan]

🎃

[Leo Gura]

5 hours ago, Daniel Balan said:

@Leo Gura You made a video where you explain the psychology of being wrong, in short that video is supposed to help us identify when we are wrong about certain topics of any human endeavour.

You say that how can only my worldview be correct while all the other people I interact with hold stupid worldviews?

Sure, I must be wrong on a lot of topics and subjects but the question is:

How do I know when I am right on a subject or topic? 

There is no formulaic answer. You have to actually be conscious of reality.

It's like you are a young chess player asking a grandmaster: "But how can I know I will win my next game?"

The answer is you never get such guarantees in chess. You must play the fucking game and win by outwitting your opponent. You can always lose your next game no matter how good you are.

Edited 8 hours ago by Leo Gura

[Daniel Balan]

Just now, Leo Gura said:

There is no formulaic answer. You have to actually be conscious of reality.

It's like you are a young chess player asking a grandmaster: But how can I know I will win my next game.

The answer is you never get such guarantees in chess. You must play the fucking game and win.

You made a 3 hour long video about how to recognize when you are wrong about stuff, for being wrong you made a 3 hour long formulaic answer. 

This is all you can say about recognizing when I could be correct in my understanding of a topic or subject? 

This is important for me because I am extremely skeptical of my own worldview, biases, persepctives and takes on various subjects. That's what I learnt the most from you. 

However I realized that skepticism for the sake of scepticism ends up with me shooting myself in the foot. Sometimes I am right in my assessments and my skepticism is what leads to self deception, falsehood and being wrong. 

All I wanted to know is when I could be sure that my assesments are correct and that my skepticism is actually me drowing in even more wrongness. 

 

[Leo Gura]

2 minutes ago, Daniel Balan said:

This is all you can say

I can and have said a thousand things about epistemology, but here I am reminding you that you must play the game.

Your question is of the kind that seeks to avoid playing the game.

Edited 8 hours ago by Leo Gura

[Daniel Balan]

@Leo Gura For example, recently I spent time analysing the communist regime and the things it did bad and the things it did good in my country. 

The communist regime here built a ton of industrial factories and basically transformed the country from an agrarian peasant country into a very industrialized country. There were factories that produced industrial goods all over the country, 90% of them built under the dictator Nicolae Ceausescu. Once the communism and the USSR fell, almost the factories went bankrupt. They no longer had orders for their products and in since the fall of communism and dictatorship all the factories that once made everyone have a job were decommissioned and sold for scrap.

The far right wingers today and the Russian propaganda says that the west made the politicans of today to render the factories useless on purpose so that the country can become a colony of the west and that the west is exploiting the country for its resources unlike when we were a dictatorship and had full sovereignity over our resources.

I found all that just crap and in my own investigation I discovered that the factories were rendered useless once the state dirrected economy collapsed because they weren't built for demand and supply, they were built just to make sure everyone was employed, plus after the border opened and the COMECON was no more, western products outcompeted the products made in our outdated factories.

So who is right and who is wrong? I explained my take to the far right wingers in my village that by the way want democracy to end and to become once again a dictatorship, and they say that I am a traitor, my mind is brainwashed by Soros western propaganda that wants people like me to believe that the factories were ineffective so that the westerners could easily steal our resources. 

They say that my sense making is not mine and that I only parrot western propaganda.

How do I decide whether I am wrong or they are wrong?

Edited 8 hours ago by Daniel Balan

[Daniel Balan]

13 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Your question is of the kind that seeks to avoid playing the game.

Not at all, I'm actively contemplating every belief I have.

You can see that in the example I gave here:

3 minutes ago, Daniel Balan said:

@Leo Gura For example, recently I spent time analysing the communist regime and the things it did bad and the things it did good in my country. 

The communist regime here built a ton of industrial factories and basically transformed the country from an agrarian peasant country into a very industrialized country. There were factories that produced industrial goods all over the country, 90% of them built under the dictator Nicolae Ceausescu. Once the communism and the USSR fell, almost the factories went bankrupt. They no longer had orders for their products and in since the fall of communism and dictatorship all the factories that once made everyone have a job were decommissioned and sold for scrap.

The far right wingers today and the Russian propaganda says that the west made the politicans of today to render the factories useless on purpose so that the country can become a colony of the west and that the west is exploiting the country for its resources unlike when we were a dictatorship and had full sovereignity over our resources.

I found all that just crap and in my own investigation I discovered that the factories were rendered useless once the state dirrected economy collapsed because they weren't built for demand and supply, they were built just to make sure everyone was employed, plus after the border opened and the COMECON was no more, western products outcompeted the products made in our outdated factories.

So who is right and who is wrong? I explained my take to the far right wingers in my village that by the way want democracy to end and to become once again a dictatorship, and they say that I am a traitor, my mind is brainwashed by Soros western propaganda that wants people like me to believe that the factories were ineffective so that the westerners could easily steal our resources. 

They say that my sense making is not mine and that I only parrot western propaganda.

How do I decide whether I am wrong or they are wrong?

 

[Leo Gura]

4 minutes ago, Daniel Balan said:

Not at all, I'm actively contemplating every belief I have.

No, still you seek to avoid it.

Actively contemplating IS the answer.

There is not a rule for knowing if you contemplated properly. You must actually do it and make the bet. And then we will see who was right in a hundred years.

Edited 8 hours ago by Leo Gura

[Daniel Balan]

Just now, Leo Gura said:

No, still you seek to avoid it.

Actively contemplating IS the answer.

I have decided upon my contemplation that I am right and that they are wrong. 

However everytime I decide that I am right I have this quote from you that echoes in my mind " Isn't it odd that out of all the billions of worldviews and perspectives, only yours is right, valid and truthful? " 

And then I go back from square one in my contemplation and I assume everything I contemplated up until that moment was wrong.

[Daniel Balan]

5 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

No, still you seek to avoid it.

Actively contemplating IS the answer.

There is not a rule for knowing if you contemplated properly. You must actually do it and make the bet. And then we will see who was right in a hundred years.

The problem is that survival happens fast and we don't have a hundred years to validate if something was wrong or right. 

The reason I contemplate such things is because I want to make the most accurate and sound decisions whenever I am engaged in survival. 

I get what you say, but your strategy leads to nazism, war and violence. 

If I have a bias for dictatorship, extreme nationalism, anti-Semitism, blaming everything bad on evil western foreigners that steal our resources, like the people in my proximity have, and I decide that that is correct and truthful, making a blind bet that that is the truth, the country turns into a North Korea style dictatorship. 

That's why I believe it is extremely important to find a formula and a system that can reveal whether something is trutfull and right or not. 

My biggest fear is for me to be indoctrinated by my peers and my culture into believing everything they believe. That's why I wanted to know how can I be fully certain that I am right when I contemplate something that reveals some truths that are completely contradictory to the group-think of the people in my community.

[Leo Gura]

@Daniel Balan Does 1+1=2?

How do you know?

Could you be wrong?

[Daniel Balan]

Just now, Leo Gura said:

@Daniel Balan Does 1+1=2?

How do you know?

Could you be wrong?

That I know for a fact. 

However what I can't put my foot on for being 100% correct is stuff I haven't dirrecly experienced. I can add 1 orange in my pocket and if I add another orange in the same pocket I will have 2 oranges. That is dirrect experience that 1+1=2. However when it comes to building a political worldview, most of the time all my assumptions and beliefs are 100% based on hearsay. If you remembered the soviet times, all the hearsay was communist propaganda that praised above and beyond the communist regime. Can you create a truthful worldview based on hearsay? Absolutely not. Can you dirrecly experience whether something was truthful or not, especially if it happened almost 4 decades ago? Absolutely not. 

So that's why I asked the initial question. 

[r0ckyreed]

It’s not about knowing whether you are right. It’s about knowing whether you understand. You have to go with the level that you are at and do the best you can. There are levels of God that no human will ever be able to access. What you are missing is insight. There’s gonna be a lot of stuff you will always be ignorant to and will never know. Keep contemplating. Let go of that Leo quote. That raft got you across the river, but it won’t get you through the forest.

[r0ckyreed]

Also, as long as you ask others for answers, you will forever never trust your own instincts and conclusions. Notice that. Some of this stuff you need to work out on your own and not have Leo or Buddha hold your hand through it. Notice how that is giving away cognitive/spiritual independence.

[Ishanga]

The Ego or Identity as well as Your Intellect (basic thinking and survival tool) wants concrete knowing, and straight forward right or wrong answers!

When it comes to Societies and Systems and how they play out over time in the context of Human Wellbeing, well none of them are working really well, yes some are worse than others objectively, they literally destroy the ppl living in those places and times, well others are more of a slow kill, but in the end we have not done a very good job over time of Human Wellbeing and Empowerment!

When it comes to general life decisions, You have to contemplate the choices and then make the decision and stay with it.. Bring Yourself to a happy peaceful place within, that give You clarity to the situations going on, then make the decision and stay with it no matter what, slight adjustments are ok but don't make drastic changes to the original decision, like I want to quit my job and do something else, have the plan set up, what are You going to do after quitting to bring in $$ and will You like what Your doing in the new job/career/business.. That is all You can do, if You 2nd guess everything after You made the decision then you will not have any Clarity or ability to Wisely choose what to do next and make it work, its like walking from point A to B, you can do it in a straight line or zig zag, one way is most efficient and effective, the other way is not!!

 

Edited 6 hours ago by Ishanga

[Leo Gura]

3 hours ago, Daniel Balan said:

That I know for a fact. 

However what I can't put my foot on for being 100% correct is stuff I haven't dirrecly experienced. I can add 1 orange in my pocket and if I add another orange in the same pocket I will have 2 oranges. That is dirrect experience that 1+1=2.

But what makes 1+1=2 true and certain?

Really contemplate this matter deeply. It is not a simple direct experience. You don't experience numbers per se.

Quote

However when it comes to building a political worldview, most of the time all my assumptions and beliefs are 100% based on hearsay.

A political view is such a high-order thing that it can never be guaranteed correct. Political views are not correlated with any particular facts or experiences.

There just is no such thing as a "correct" political worldview. Although there are many bad ones.

Edited 3 hours ago by Leo Gura