Contemplation Is More Important Than Meditation

[r0ckyreed]

I want you to consider that contemplation is more important than meditation. Why? Well, that’s something for you to contemplate . But for real, the main reason is self-deception and increasing intelligence/insight.

Meditation is good for many things. But no amount of meditation will get you to deconstruct Buddhism itself. Even though Leo is trying to teach independence of mind, 99% of people I see in this forum are engaging in Buddhist groupthink and at the same time not taking seriously the cognitive rigor it takes to attain truth-realization. Buddhism isn’t truth-realization. It’s a flirtation with the idea of seeking truth in the disguise of meditation traditions, cultural conformity, and Buddhist ideology. This isn’t just about Buddhism but all spiritual ideas that you don’t question.

Many of you reading this or following my posts will assume my critiques of Buddhism come from ignorance rather than transcendence. You will think I need to read more, meditate more, and study Buddhism more. You couldn’t be more wrong. No amount of learning about flat earthism will get you any closer to discovering the truth about earth. Likewise, no amount of studying Buddhism will actually get you to realize inner intelligence/authority.

Emptying the mind has its uses and purposes, but it also has its drawbacks that many overlook. You can have an empty mind and still be ignorant. You don’t solve ignorance through meditation alone. You solve it by deeply questioning epistemology and detachment from all ideologies especially Buddhism. Buddhism is an ideology about nonattachment. It’s an identity and worldview about nonattachment. But notice that it’s not the same thing as true nonattachment. True nonattachment isn’t Buddhism, Skepticism, Solipsism, or anything. It’s just Truth/Consciousness.

[TheSelf]

@r0ckyreed

You need the mind to use it as tool to contemplate right? 

For that you need a crystal clear mind, not a weak one filled with rubbish and nonsense of all kind. And you need to train it to be able concentrate as concentration is the minds ability you use to contemplate.

If you dont know how to use your mind in its fullest capacity then no amount of trying will get you there.

 

Edited 18 hours ago by TheSelf

[TheSelf]

It's like telling someone who never drove a car that getting to your car and driving to the destination is more important than learning how to drive first!

[Carl-Richard]

All your posts are the same 🙄 "Truth, x is better than y, Buddhism sux". And such dichotomous thinking will eventually lead to contradictions:

Rather than asking "What is better: meditation or contemplation?", ask "What is meditation useful for?", "What is contemplation useful for?" "At what times is each more useful?"

Edited 18 hours ago by Carl-Richard

[Natasha Tori Maru]

Out of curiosity - 

Outline your history of mediation.

Outline your typical contemplation practice / frequency. 

To come to this conclusion does make me think there is a lack of experience with one of the above, because it is like saying 'i will learn to knit a sweater, but I do not think learning to hold the needles is needed' 

[r0ckyreed]

48 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

Out of curiosity - 

Outline your history of mediation.

Outline your typical contemplation practice / frequency. 

To come to this conclusion does make me think there is a lack of experience with one of the above, because it is like saying 'i will learn to knit a sweater, but I do not think learning to hold the needles is needed' 

I’ve been meditating since 2018. And I contemplate and meditate daily. I do concentration meditation and contemplative meditations.

Buddhism is not needed for awakening. You don’t need Buddhism to knit your sweater. I’m surprised this isn’t obvious. The Buddha didn’t even need Buddhism to awaken.

Edited 13 hours ago by r0ckyreed

[Natasha Tori Maru]

4 hours ago, r0ckyreed said:

I’ve been meditating since 2018. And I contemplate and meditate daily. I do concentration meditation and contemplative meditations.

Buddhism is not needed for awakening. You don’t need Buddhism to knit your sweater. I’m surprised this isn’t obvious. The Buddha didn’t even need Buddhism to awaken.

Oh, strange. I have never said Buddhism is needed to awaken? 

[Jannes]

Dont Contemplation and Meditation just archieve different things?

If you want peace of mind Meditation is superior. 

If you seriously want to understand reality Contemplation is superior. 

For understanding reality some type of spiritual practice, psychedelics or sober technique, is necessary though while for just having a more peaceful mind the right technique is enough without much understanding. 

Thats how I understood it, correct me where I am wrong. 

[r0ckyreed]

20 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

Oh, strange. I have never said Buddhism is needed to awaken? 

Then I have no idea what you meant by the needle and sweater analogy.

[r0ckyreed]

16 minutes ago, Jannes said:

Dont Contemplation and Meditation just archieve different things?

If you want peace of mind Meditation is superior. 

If you seriously want to understand reality Contemplation is superior. 

For understanding reality some type of spiritual practice, psychedelics or sober technique, is necessary though while for just having a more peaceful mind the right technique is enough without much understanding. 

Thats how I understood it, correct me where I am wrong. 

Pretty much. Except meditation isn’t just about peace of mind. It’s about letting go of thought/ego in observation of Consciousness/Truth as it is. Meditation is essential, but meditation without contemplation will not lead you to the highest levels of consciousness development. This is obvious.

Contemplation is the best technique I know to penetrate through delusion and attain insight. Psychedelics definitely can assist, but you can misuse psychedelics and remain deluded.  

Edited 9 hours ago by r0ckyreed

[Natasha Tori Maru]

4 minutes ago, r0ckyreed said:

Then I have no idea what you meant by the needle and sweater analogy.

No worries - it was an idea to represent how the two processes, meditation + contemplation tend to work together towards realisation.

Nothing to do with Buddhism. Maybe there is some association there for you 🙂

[r0ckyreed]

2 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

No worries - it was an idea to represent how the two processes, meditation + contemplation tend to work together towards realisation.

Nothing to do with Buddhism. Maybe there is some association there for you 🙂

Got it. My misunderstanding. In that case we are on the same page. I am just suggesting that for me, contemplation is more important to me due to my goals of higher development of consciousness. It’s a balancing act of serious questioning and letting go of thought. 

[r0ckyreed]

9 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

All your posts are the same 🙄 "Truth, x is better than y, Buddhism sux". And such dichotomous thinking will eventually lead to contradictions:

Rather than asking "What is better: meditation or contemplation?", ask "What is meditation useful for?", "What is contemplation useful for?" "At what times is each more useful?"

💯 Thanks for the feedback.

[Jodistrict]

You are constructing a strawman of Buddhism and then shooting it down.  

[r0ckyreed]

16 minutes ago, Jodistrict said:

You are constructing a strawman of Buddhism and then shooting it down.  

Thanks for your feedback. Where do you see a strawman? My broader point is that  Buddhism is a conceptual framework that limits the mind and needs to be let go of. It’s a conceptual framework about nonattachment and enlightenment. Notice that Buddhism is a map and is not the same as the territory. You won’t achieve sovereignty of mind following the Buddha.

If you are really present in this moment, you won’t find Buddhism in it. 

Edited 8 hours ago by r0ckyreed

[Carl-Richard]

7 hours ago, r0ckyreed said:

Thanks for your feedback. Where do you see a strawman? My broader point is that  Buddhism is a conceptual framework that limits the mind and needs to be let go of. It’s a conceptual framework about nonattachment and enlightenment. Notice that Buddhism is a map and is not the same as the territory. You won’t achieve sovereignty of mind following the Buddha.

If you are really present in this moment, you won’t find Buddhism in it. 

Then make a thread criticizing confusing the map and the territory and not Buddhism.

[Ramasta9]

Contemplation = Reflection or Self Reflection

Meditation = Resting in Awareness / Being

There is no better or more important, simply follow what "feels" most "natural" for you, intuitive to each moment.

Buddha and Buddhism are very different. If you want to have a taste of what Buddha was like, just watch some Osho.

Hate him or love him, he was dangerously himself, a true individual, rebellious to all false systems, a modern Buddha.

Buddhism and Christianity paint a very distorted picture of who Buddha or Christ actually were.