Hojo

Sadhguru on Dr k

230 posts in this topic

5 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

So let me get this straight: you used this weird standard (fiinding an enlightened person saying that the teacher helped them) to claim Sadhguru is a conman. When pressed on it, not being able to find it for any teacher, you claim all teachers are conmen. Ok.

No, I don't consider the others conmen, I haven't seen them lead people to believe they can enlighten people and they publish their deepest stuff for free.

I said I think I can find someone enlightened by Spira, you don't think i can? Do you want me to? It might take some work, I'm not in the 'Spira community', barely know it.

How about Peter Ralston, he has a protégé Brendan, and didn't Leo even study under him? Do you consider his protégé Brendan enlightened or him contributing to Leo's enlightenment?

Jean Klein taught Francis Lucille, Francis taught Spira.

Again, it's not my position saying these are enlightening masters, it's purely yours. Are you working some psychological experiment on me? It's okay if you are, but I'm pretty much done here.

5 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

 

 

So it's a wish + "claim" + paywall for "strongest teachings" now? And the paywall has to be larger than a book now? Ok, Mr. Ad Hoc. First show me where Sadhguru "claims" to enlighten people, don't give me a quote where he says he "wishes" to enlighten people.

The quote I posted said 'it is my blessing that this should happen to you'. I have no problem with his "wish".

You're moving goalposts now, you yourself said he leads people to enlightenment, even if sadguhuru doesn't explicitly say it, people are led to believe it, like you do.

Now, you could say people believe the others will lead them to enlightenment too, but I don't notice them putting their 'deepest' secrets behind paywalls.

Quote

Until then, here is another quote from Spira:

He wishes you to become enlightened, and he also doesn't deny being able to take you all the way.

 

What's worse: taking 4000$ for a retreat where you allegedly give the same teachings as your free teachings or taking 3500$ for stronger teachings?

Both are great, neither are bad, what's bad is leading people to misbelieve he can enlighten you while puting his deep stuff behind a paywall.

It's not some complicated position, you disagree, that's fine.

Quote

Both Rupert Spira and Sadhguru offer hardship scholarships for reduced price, and Sadhguru also does rural outreach programs (in third world countries) where many are offered free.

 

Not true, that's just two of your ad hoc arguments. You will find more.

It's not ad hoc, there are other conmen like sadhguru but he's the topic of discussion.

Quote

As far as I'm aware, the "esoteric version" I've been talking about, the one that is potentially destabilizing and dangerous, is not even behind a paywall. It's behind a wall of Sadhguru personally deciding to give it to you.

I wasn't meaning what you consider esoteric. You previously said Leo gives an esoteric view of people like Sadguhuru but you believe that's wrong to do, that just brute force meditation get's you to enlightenment. I meant what others and Leo consider as esoteric. Do you think most people believe enlightenment is just daily meditation, or do most people believe there's some esoteric method? I was referring to the latter, what I believe is the common idea.

Edited by Elliott

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14 hours ago, Elliott said:

No, I don't consider the others conmen, I haven't seen them lead people to believe they can enlighten people and they publish their deepest stuff for free.

I said I think I can find someone enlightened by Spira, you don't think i can? Do you want me to? It might take some work, I'm not in the 'Spira community', barely know it.

How about Peter Ralston, he has a protégé Brendan, and didn't Leo even study under him? Do you consider his protégé Brendan enlightened or him contributing to Leo's enlightenment?

Jean Klein taught Francis Lucille, Francis taught Spira.

Again, it's not my position saying these are enlightening masters, it's purely yours. Are you working some psychological experiment on me? It's okay if you are, but I'm pretty much done here.

 

The quote I posted said 'it is my blessing that this should happen to you'. I have no problem with his "wish".

You're moving goalposts now, you yourself said he leads people to enlightenment, even if sadguhuru doesn't explicitly say it, people are led to believe it, like you do.

I think it's weird that you think people who dedicate their life to spreading enlightenment don't claim to be able to enlighten people. "But I mean claim as in a literal quote". Yeah, even if you manage to pedantically Houdini yourself out of every quote I throw at you, ultimately, I don't think it matters much (but feel free to make a blistering case for that); it's just honestly very weird that you have to be this literal:

If a sailor offers sailing trips but he has never said literally "I'm able to take you over shore", that doesn't remove your obvious belief that you think they are able to do that (and that they themselves think they are able to do that). Again, that's honestly very weird. And then indeed, that you have to boil it down to extremely select word choices, "it's my blessing" ✔️ , vs "I've tried my best" ❌, is just laughable in my opinion. This is the epitome of pedantry.

And by the way, last time I checked, Leo is not Enlightened (he is awake), and from what I have seen from Brendan, he doesn't seem Enlightened either. But maybe I would have to look into it more.

 

14 hours ago, Elliott said:

Now, you could say people believe the others will lead them to enlightenment too, but I don't notice them putting their 'deepest' secrets behind paywalls.

Both are great, neither are bad, what's bad is leading people to misbelieve he can enlighten you while puting his deep stuff behind a paywall.

It's not some complicated position, you disagree, that's fine.

Let's explore the claim that Sadhguru hides his deepest teachings behind a paywall. Where did you get this idea from, and what specifically does it refer to? And how is it categorically different from what Rupert Spira puts behind his various paywalls?

 

And I'm just saying, I can feel when I'm having a substantive discussion where the points are crystal clear and there is a logical progression to the discussion; where the interlocutor actually has a firm position they've thought out in advance and that they're not constructing as they go and where they don't engage in insane levels of pedantry to navigate away from unforeseen contradictions to their position. In all honesty, this ain't it.

Edited by Carl-Richard

Intrinsic joy = being x meaning ²

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3 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

I think it's weird that you think people who dedicate their life to spreading enlightenment don't claim to be able to enlighten people. "But I mean claim as in a literal quote". Yeah, even if you manage to pedantically Houdini yourself out of every quote I throw at you, ultimately, I don't think it matters much (but feel free to make a blistering case for that); it's just honestly very weird that you have to be this literal:

If a sailor offers sailing trips but he has never said literally "I'm able to take you over shore", that doesn't remove your obvious belief that you think they are able to do that (and that they themselves think they are able to do that). Again, that's honestly very weird. And then indeed, that you have to boil it down to extremely select word choices, "it's my blessing" ✔️ , vs "I've tried my best" ❌, is just laughable in my opinion. This is the epitome of pedantry.

Enlightenment isn't like going on a cruise, to me. We have radically different ideas of enlightenment.

Quote

And by the way, last time I checked, Leo is not Enlightened (he is awake), and from what I have seen from Brendan, he doesn't seem Enlightened either. But maybe I would have to look into it more.

What about Jean Klein taught Francis Lucille, Francis taught Spira? Do these guys seem Enlightened to to you? Just to clarify though, it's not my position in our main conversation that anyone can lead people to enlightenment though, it's yours. As you say in your last paragraph here about a "firm position", this is a tangent from the conversation but by you.

Quote

Let's explore the claim that Sadhguru hides his deepest teachings behind a paywall. Where did you get this idea from, and what specifically does it refer to? And how is it categorically different from what Rupert Spira puts behind his various paywalls?

So, you disagree, right? I can't tell your thoughts on this.

 

See the image below, it goes with this quote

"An advanced full-day
experiential program
with Sadhguru

This program goes beyond anything you've experienced. Expect the unexpected.

Through powerful processes and guided meditations, Sadhguru leads you into deeper states of consciousness and helps release long-held negativity.

Step into a space of joy and clarity, where life unfolds in its true essence.

Guided Meditations

Powerful meditations led by Sadhguru to explore higher states of consciousness

Higher States of Awareness

Opportunity to experience deeper states of awareness and spiritual growth"

 

 

Spira

"Description

For those of us who love to dive deeply into the heart of the non-dual understanding, retreats offer an unprecedented opportunity: seven days with Rupert and friends, nestled in a beautiful location in nature, where we steep together in the peace of our true nature. Retreats gather us in the heart of being, where we spend our days in self-abidance, friendship and creativity."

https://rupertspira.com/events/events/seven-day-retreat-at-the-vedanta-21-28-november-2025/

 

 

See photo below. Sadhguru's has "soak in ecstasy of enlightenment with sadhguru", and then from the quotation above "This program goes beyond anything you've experienced. Expect the unexpected"

Spira's has "we spend our days in self-abidance, friendship and creativity."

I think Sadhguru is pretty explicitly selling enlightenment or deeper states of consciousness here, Spira seems more like 'come hangout with me, you've seen my videos it will be like that', I don't notice anything like Sadhguru's "This program goes beyond anything you've experienced. Expect the unexpected."

 

Quote

And I'm just saying, I can feel when I'm having a substantive discussion where the points are crystal clear and there is a logical progression to the discussion; where the interlocutor actually has a firm position they've thought out in advance and that they're not constructing as they go and where they don't engage in insane levels of pedantry to navigate away from unforeseen contradictions to their position. In all honesty, this ain't it.

I wasn't seeking a discussion about this let alone a substantive one, I just gave my two sentence crude opinion, to no one in particular. I never expected that you would be so serious about this. This is not a topic I have much care about.

My position never changed and I did not navigate any contradictions. I think you may have been a bit emotionally reactive with my first comment and didn't take time to see what I actually said and didn't say, Instead, assuming my position was that spiritual teachers shouldn't charge, as I had to repeatedly tell you that wasn't what I said, and assumed I have the same idea of enlightenment and 'how to attain enlightenment' as you do.

 

Screenshot_20251014_063707_Chrome.jpg

Edited by Elliott

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From my involvement with Isha, most all the money goes back into the foundation to pay its expenses, Sadhguru from I know has used vehicles, he makes his own cloths, the travel he does is not leisure time, its work.. I for one think he should take time off every year to recoup but he doesn't he's go go go full on all the time, I've never seen anyone like this in the world, totally selfless to really his own needs and personal wants...

To criticize it is nuts, we should emulate it, be a small part of it, he wants undercover Yogi's for the most part, yes he needs ppl at the ashrams because of the volume of ppl visiting, but he wants Us outside in the world being the transformation so ppl can see it is real and they can have it too, that is  worthy cause in my books...

He's been accused of most everything nasty under the sun, stealing kidneys, stealing ppl, stealing land, etc,,,this happen when You try to do big thing, enemies, the elite show up and try to stop You, they don't want change the want us to be their puppets, and to not be Self Realized and Aware, as once we are we bring back our own power and screw it too them!

 


Karma Means "Life is my Making", I am 100% responsible for my Inner Experience. -Sadhguru..."I don''t want Your Dreams to come True, I want something to come true for You beyond anything You could dream of!!" - Sadhguru

 

 

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565122007_32714648904789020_5579148235035294919_n.jpg


Karma Means "Life is my Making", I am 100% responsible for my Inner Experience. -Sadhguru..."I don''t want Your Dreams to come True, I want something to come true for You beyond anything You could dream of!!" - Sadhguru

 

 

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46 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

 Sadhguru from I know has used vehicles, he makes his own cloths, the travel he does is not leisure time, its work.. I for one think he should take time off every year to recoup but he doesn't he's go go go full on all the time, I've never seen anyone like this in the world, totally selfless to really his own needs and personal wants...

 

This looks brand new to me, like a $30,000 bike. Do you consider Taylor Swift to live selflessly?

 

Some people may incorrectly think, "motorcycle, efficient!", no, it's not! My non-hybrid car that can haul 5 people gets better mpg. Let alone a bus for his 16 people he says is with him "4 motorcycles, sixteen people"

An environmentalist.......

Edited by Elliott

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16 minutes ago, Elliott said:

This looks brand new to me, like a $30,000 bike. Do you consider Taylor Swift to live selflessly?

 

 

To facilitate what, an exploration of American Indian culture, You think this is a leisure trip?? I may be a 30K bike, would You rather he take a cheaper one, get in an accident and die or be seriously injured?  What would You do if You plan was to do a trip like this and expose to many American Indian culture, how would You do it safely...

Your looking from afar, making assumptions and projecting, no credibility at all,,, I only respond as others may read this and get distracted from a True path that works!


Karma Means "Life is my Making", I am 100% responsible for my Inner Experience. -Sadhguru..."I don''t want Your Dreams to come True, I want something to come true for You beyond anything You could dream of!!" - Sadhguru

 

 

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38 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

To facilitate what, an exploration of American Indian culture, You think this is a leisure trip?? I may be a 30K bike, would You rather he take a cheaper one, get in an accident and die or be seriously injured?  What would You do if You plan was to do a trip like this and expose to many American Indian culture, how would You do it safely...

Your looking from afar, making assumptions and projecting, no credibility at all,,, I only respond as others may read this and get distracted from a True path that works!

I was speaking to your "used vehicles" comment. Definitely a leisure trip, you disagree?

Some people may incorrectly think, "motorcycle, efficient!", no, it's not! My non-hybrid car that can haul 5 people gets better mpg. Let alone a bus for his 16 people he says is with him "4 motorcycles, sixteen people" (a small bus is most efficient, or two vans. I'm saying a bus is most efficient, not deriding his bus usage if they did use one) that bike is huge. Let alone tire life on a motorcycle is ungodly, pun intended, (motorcycle tire rubber is really soft for grip).

An environmentalist....... he published this, role modeling. 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Elliott

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4 minutes ago, Elliott said:

I was speaking to your "used vehicles" comment. Definitely a leisure trip, you disagree?

Some people may incorrectly think, "motorcycle, efficient!", no, it's not! My non-hybrid car that can haul 5 people gets better mpg. Let alone a bus for his 16 people he says is with him "4 motorcycles, sixteen people" (a small bus is most efficient, or two vans. I'm saying a bus is most efficient, not deriding his bus usage if they did use one)

An environmentalist....... he published this, role modeling. 

Definetely not a leisure trip, try it and see for yourself...

Anyhow, you know what they say about arguing with fools eh:)

Peace out!


Karma Means "Life is my Making", I am 100% responsible for my Inner Experience. -Sadhguru..."I don''t want Your Dreams to come True, I want something to come true for You beyond anything You could dream of!!" - Sadhguru

 

 

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7 hours ago, Elliott said:

Enlightenment isn't like going on a cruise, to me. We have radically different ideas of enlightenment.

Again, so literal. We probably don't. But if you get hung up on words like "blessing" vs "trying", maybe we do.

 

7 hours ago, Elliott said:

What about Jean Klein taught Francis Lucille, Francis taught Spira? Do these guys seem Enlightened to to you? Just to clarify though, it's not my position in our main conversation that anyone can lead people to enlightenment though, it's yours. As you say in your last paragraph here about a "firm position", this is a tangent from the conversation but by you.

And Spira taught...? Is Spira a conman?

 

7 hours ago, Elliott said:

So, you disagree, right? I can't tell your thoughts on this.

 

See the image below, it goes with this quote

"An advanced full-day
experiential program
with Sadhguru

This program goes beyond anything you've experienced. Expect the unexpected.

Through powerful processes and guided meditations, Sadhguru leads you into deeper states of consciousness and helps release long-held negativity.

Step into a space of joy and clarity, where life unfolds in its true essence.

Guided Meditations

Powerful meditations led by Sadhguru to explore higher states of consciousness

Higher States of Awareness

Opportunity to experience deeper states of awareness and spiritual growth"

 

 

Spira

"Description

For those of us who love to dive deeply into the heart of the non-dual understanding, retreats offer an unprecedented opportunity: seven days with Rupert and friends, nestled in a beautiful location in nature, where we steep together in the peace of our true nature. Retreats gather us in the heart of being, where we spend our days in self-abidance, friendship and creativity."

https://rupertspira.com/events/events/seven-day-retreat-at-the-vedanta-21-28-november-2025/

 

 

See photo below. Sadhguru's has "soak in ecstasy of enlightenment with sadhguru", and then from the quotation above "This program goes beyond anything you've experienced. Expect the unexpected"

Spira's has "we spend our days in self-abidance, friendship and creativity."

I think Sadhguru is pretty explicitly selling enlightenment or deeper states of consciousness here, Spira seems more like 'come hangout with me, you've seen my videos it will be like that', I don't notice anything like Sadhguru's "This program goes beyond anything you've experienced. Expect the unexpected."

Marketing language = conman. Yes. Brilliant. Spira sells self-abidance, by sitting with him and soaking in his enlightenment. The difference is in wording, not in concepts, not in substance. This is the essence of pedantry, where you get fixated on distinctions that lack importance.

 

7 hours ago, Elliott said:

I wasn't seeking a discussion about this let alone a substantive one, I just gave my two sentence crude opinion, to no one in particular. I never expected that you would be so serious about this. This is not a topic I have much care about.

I can tell. But when you do continue with your style of argumentation of seeking out these weird random factoids that vaguely bolsters your position but which when countered can be easily dropped and claimed as "I wasn't claiming that, you were", or you simply keep adding a new qualification like "deepest teachings" (you never mentioned this at the start) or "3500 dollars vs 14 dollars" (where you were somehow unaware of the 4000 dollars), it is indicative of a larger pattern, of indeed arguing about things you're not very serious about. Just pointing it out.

This is akin to exploratory research or P-hacking in science, where you don't have a strong hypothesis you've defined from the get go which you're trying to affirm or disaffirm, but you explore as you go, taking advantage of the inflation of statistical significance from doing unprespecified multiple comparisons, disregarding contradictions to the hypothesis, only presenting that which corraborates the hypothesis, and tweaking the hypothesis down the line.

And for context, these were your first statements so we don't get confused:

Quote

Anyone that claims to be enlightened and then proceeds to commence business to help people leave their "mental illness", is mentally ill. Sadghuru apparently needs to take his own Kriya course..... Sadghuru is a materialist, look at his personal life.

Quote

He's a millionaire, if he can cure mental illness why isn't he sharing it for free? 

Quote

I didn't say sadhguru should be poor. If he can cure people it should be open-source and prolific. He's obviously a materialistic con-man.

Quote

He proclaims to have the cure for a widespread mental illness ----> take a mentally ill person, make them better. Everyone will flock to you, rinse and repeat, the world is saved, no need to steal money from Leo to plant trees in a forest to offset @Salvijus carbon footprint he creates making money to take Sahdgurus Kriya course.

Quote

If he would cure masses of people of this 'mental illness' that retards society, why would we need an environmental Sadhguru, everyone would be an environmentalist.

 

These weird arguments we've been having more recently about depth of teachings, pricing, extremely specific wording of quotes, you added later, and by all reasonable indication ad hoc.

Edited by Carl-Richard

Intrinsic joy = being x meaning ²

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1 hour ago, Carl-Richard said:

 

 

I can tell. But when you do continue with your style of argumentation of seeking out these weird random factoids that vaguely bolsters your position but which when countered can be easily dropped and claimed as "I wasn't claiming that, you were", or you simply keep adding a new qualification like "deepest teachings" (you never mentioned this at the start) or "3500 dollars vs 14 dollars" (where you were somehow unaware of the 4000 dollars), it is indicative of a larger pattern,

disregarding contradictions

And for context, these were your first statements so we don't get confused:

Can you embolden a part that i dropped?Or a contradiction I had in those responses? 

What "I wasn't claiming" were clearly assumptions by you, I never said spiritual teachers shouldn't charge, I never said Spira enlightens people, I never said Spira was a better teacher.

Quote

 

Again, so literal. We probably don't. But if you get hung up on words like "blessing" vs "trying", maybe we do.

I don't think people can lead others to enlightenment. 'There is no sailor', it's more like Musk saying I'll fly you to mars, or I want to fly people to mars.

Quote

 

Marketing language = conman. Yes. Brilliant. Spira sells self-abidance, by sitting with him and soaking in his enlightenment. The difference is in wording, not in concepts, not in substance.

You're again superimposing assumptions onto what I've said. Consider my critiques are not ad hoc. Do you not think you're strawmanning me at all?

Quote

This is the essence of pedantry, where you get fixated on distinctions that lack importance.

In regard to being considered a conman? Yes, language is very critical.

 

Do you think Spira leads people to his resort stays the same way Sadhguru does? Do you think most students from either would go to the other's? I don't. Consider Sadhguru's audience, not you, reading and hearing these things I 'pedantically' point out. Then do Spira's, you see no difference?

Edited by Elliott

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38 minutes ago, Elliott said:

Can you embolden a part that i dropped?Or a contradiction I had in those responses? 

What "I wasn't claiming" were clearly assumptions by you, I never said spiritual teachers shouldn't charge, I never said Spira enlightens people, I never said Spira was a better teacher.

I don't think people can lead others to enlightenment. 'There is no sailor', it's more like Musk saying I'll fly you to mars, or I want to fly people to mars.

You're again superimposing assumptions onto what I've said. Consider my critiques are not ad hoc. Do you not think you're strawmanning me at all?

"He proclaims to have the cure for a widespread mental illness ----> take a mentally ill person, make them better."

I showed you a study of 70% increase in relevant neurophysiological markers, and that is when the ad hoc rampage started, you kept on adding qualifications to that very vague statement, the contradiction is never acknowledged because you keep P-hacking, keep up the endless exploratory data mining, keep adjusting the hypothesis.

You're not able to be strawmanned when you are a strawman.

 

41 minutes ago, Elliott said:

Do you think Spira leads people to his resort stays the same way Sadhguru does? Do you think most students from either would go to the other's? I don't. Consider Sadhguru's audience, not you, reading and hearing these things I 'pedantically' point out. Then do Spira's, you see no difference?

Ask fans of Spira and Sadhguru here maybe.

@Salvijus @Ishanga


Intrinsic joy = being x meaning ²

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15 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

"He proclaims to have the cure for a widespread mental illness ----> take a mentally ill person, make them better."

I showed you a study of 70% increase in relevant neurophysiological markers, and that is when the ad hoc rampage started, you kept on adding qualifications to that very vague statement, the contradiction is never acknowledged because you keep P-hacking, keep up the endless exploratory data mining, keep adjusting the hypothesis.

You're not able to be strawmanned when you are a strawman.

 

Ask fans of Spira and Sadhguru here maybe.

@Salvijus @Ishanga

By "mental illness", you don't think Sadhguru is talking about enlightenment? Are you familiar with how he uses the term "mental illness"?

Edited by Elliott

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@Salvijus @Ishanga would you pay $3,500 for a Spira retreat? If not, would you mind giving a brief reason as to why? Please and thank you.

Edited by Elliott

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@Carl-Richard why do you keep asking me questions?

Not that I don't want you to, I'm asking sincerely. It seems like a waste of time and energy from what you're saying.

Edited by Elliott

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49 minutes ago, Elliott said:

By "mental illness", you don't think Sadhguru is talking about enlightenment? Are you familiar with how he uses the term "mental illness"?

From the Dr. K video 23:11-23:33: "So essentially we need to understand, all mental suffering is compulsiveness, [...] and the solution to compulsiveness is consciousness". You can have gradations of consciousness, 70% better, 70% worse, and maybe at a plateau, it's called Enlightenment. But yes, gradations. That you want to shoehorn in an absolutistic on-off interpretation, that's on you.


Intrinsic joy = being x meaning ²

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4 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

From the Dr. K video 23:11-23:33: "So essentially we need to understand, all mental suffering is compulsiveness, [...] and the solution to compulsiveness is consciousness". You can have gradations of consciousness, 70% better, 70% worse, and maybe at a plateau, it's called Enlightenment. But yes, gradations. That you want to shoehorn in an absolutistic on-off interpretation, that's on you.

I don't understand what your viewpoint is; are you saying you think Sadhguru means he can raise consciousness in people, but he doesn't mean completely, he just means raising it some, in people, and that cures the "mental illness" he always speaks about?

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Just now, Elliott said:

I don't understand what your viewpoint is; are you saying you think Sadhguru means he can raise consciousness in people, but he doesn't mean completely, he just means raising it some, in people, and that cures the "mental illness" he always speaks about?

You asked for a mentally ill person "becoming better", not "cured", not "Enlightened". That's what you were asking for, and you were given an answer for that. Then you pivoted to "show me enlightened person", etc.


Intrinsic joy = being x meaning ²

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Just now, Carl-Richard said:

You asked for a mentally ill person "becoming better", not "cured", not "Enlightened". That's what you were asking for, and you were given an answer for that. Then you pivoted to "show me enlightened person", etc.

This isn't pedantic?

We misunderstood eachother. When you posted that study, I thought you were saying it indicated enlightenment. I admitted Sadhgurus work helps people, I even said I like his teachings.

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