Sadhguru on Dr k

[Elliott]

2 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

Lol, up until now you seemed to present each part of that statement separately as if it was ad hoc, but I guess now it's more clear.

You're looking for very specific proof, of people giving testimonies that they were "enlightened" using Sadhguru's techniques. This is hard because people are of course discouraged to call themselves enlightened (it can be seen as pompous) and I simply wouldn't expect an enlightened person to frame their enlightenment as mainly a product of a course and make a video giving a testimony of the course and suggesting that the course works (and you must buy it too!), it's just weird and odd as it's a much more personal journey than that.

Not a testimonial, someone that you think seems enlightened, that owes an important part of their growth to Sadhguru.

Quote

I simply rely on gradual proof: his techniques are similar to other techniques that work, and you have scientific studies showing effects in the right direction where the ultimate outcome is consistent with enlightenment, and of course, "I read energy". That he wants to put some of that behind a paywall is again reasonable. If you want to put extra skepticism because you lack this very specific kind of proof that most probably doesn't exist, that's your prerogative.

I'm not trying to change your mind about Sadhguru, I just gave my opinion. I'm not even trying to dissuade people from his course, it seems to me to be very beneficial to people. My qualm is a bit specific.

You and I disagree on what enlightenment is. I agree with the standard explanation Sadhguru gives, but when you guys, I think he uses "Scientific studies" like you just mentioned, when you start going that direction I'm no longer with you.

 

1 hour ago, Carl-Richard said:

Is there anybody you think is enlightened? Do you think enlightenment is possible at all?

The others you mentioned previously. I use the standard definition of enlightenment.

 

I'm not a formal type of communicator, I know this, I try to be gracious to and understanding of whom I'm speaking with because of this. Not that I'm apologizing, I find most people don't understand each other anyway, so it seems best to focus on clarifying questions rather than elaborate responses.

Edited October 11 by Elliott

[Carl-Richard]

8 hours ago, Elliott said:

Not a testimonial, someone that you think seems enlightened, that owes an important part of their growth to Sadhguru.

That's still very specific. Nothing I can find. But this too feels ad hoc. Where are you pulling these weird standards from? Somebody has to be enlightened and tell you Sadhguru helped them; it doesn't suffice that Sadhguru's techniques are without a doubt similar to the techniques other people have used to become enlightened?

Enlightenment in terms of the practices you repeat daily are not that incredibly mindblowing. It's literally just good old meditation. It's the consistency that gets people in my estimation. Gary Weber became enlightened after he did 20 000 hours of morning yoga while working as a head of R&D in material science with a quarter billion dollar budget. That's being consistent, not performing some mindblowingly esoteric yogic hyper-technology.

Even Sadhguru meditated daily since he was 12. It's just that he didn't do it for enlightenment at that stage, he was simply taught it's what you do to be healthy. Yet people call him a "genetic freak" because he awoke while walking up a hill and sitting a rock. Mfkers I have awoken while walking up a hill (not sure about the sitting on a rock part). I think Leo's esoterification of people like Sadhguru gives the complete wrong image.

And it gives the wrong impression of what he is selling. I don't think he is selling something completely different from what he is talking about in his free talks, or what Spira is talking about in his talks (except indeed the very deep esoteric techniques that he allegedly hides from even people who buy his IE course). He simply operationalizes it and makes it more structured and made-to-go.

So Leo scoffing that its weaksauce and that you're suspecting he is a conman is simply undue expectations; he is not dealing out psychedelic substances, one-shot magic pills, he is dealing out process and progress-oriented meditation techniques.

 

8 hours ago, Elliott said:

You and I disagree on what enlightenment is.

How do you know that?

Edited October 12 by Carl-Richard

[Salvijus]

10 hours ago, Hojo said:

@Salvijus please stop with the cringe hands together. People that get into arguments and then end with a take care or hands together are THE most cringe people on the planet. We are having a disagreement dont pretentiously do shit like that its not spiritual and its dishonest.

Spirituality 101 how to tell if a spiritual person is gaslighting you

Answer : take care 🙏

Okay 🤝 

🕺 🕺 🕺 

 

Edited October 12 by Salvijus

[Hojo]

@SalvijusUsing Jesus as a gaslight

Blaspheme on God.

Edited October 12 by Hojo

[Salvijus]

@Hojo look, I offered you a peaceful departure because I saw we won't reach an agreement on anything. It's up to you what you want to do with it. If you want something more from me, you'll know where to find me - on a dance floor. 

Take care ✌️🕺 🌟 

 

Edited October 12 by Salvijus

[Elliott]

 

23 hours ago, Elliott said:

Not a testimonial, someone that you think seems enlightened, that owes an important part of their growth to Sadhguru.

 

23 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

That's still very specific. Nothing I can find. But this too feels ad hoc. Where are you pulling these weird standards from? Somebody has to be enlightened and tell you Sadhguru helped them; 

How can you say this

and then this?

23 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

 Sadhguru's techniques are without a doubt similar to the techniques other people have used to become enlightened?

This is from his website

"It is my wish and my blessing this must happen to you. Whether you climb Mount Everest or not, whether you become the richest man on this planet or not, your experience of life on this planet should be pleasant. You must live blissfully and go. This much should happen to every human being. Everyone deserves it and everyone is capable of it."

If he's using without a doubt techniques, you think it's a weird standard of me to expect to see one person that appears enlightened? A ton of people go through his teachings, I shouldn't expect to be able to find one on the internet, if he's using "without a doubt techniques"?

I don't believe they are "without a doubt", I have doubt, I have no confidence in them actually. I don't believe there is a '10 step plan to enlightenment'.

 

Quote

Enlightenment in terms of the practices you repeat daily are not that incredibly mindblowing. It's literally just good old meditation. It's the consistency that gets people in my estimation. Gary Weber became enlightened after he did 20 000 hours of morning yoga while working as a head of R&D in material science with a quarter billion dollar budget. That's being consistent, not performing some mindblowingly esoteric yogic hyper-technology.

That's not what Sadhguru or I mean by enlightenment, here's Sadhguru's words

"But for the first time I did not know what is me and what is not me. What was me was spread all over the place."

Quote

Even Sadhguru meditated daily since he was 12. It's just that he didn't do it for enlightenment at that stage, he was simply taught it's what you do to be healthy. Yet people call him a "genetic freak" because he awoke while walking up a hill and sitting a rock. Mfkers I have awoken while walking up a hill (not sure about the sitting on a rock part). I think Leo's esoterification of people like Sadhguru gives the complete wrong image.

And it gives the wrong impression of what he is selling. I don't think he is selling something completely different from what he is talking about in his free talks, or what Spira is talking about in his talks (except indeed the very deep esoteric techniques that he allegedly hides from even people who buy his IE course). He simply operationalizes it and makes it more structured and made-to-go.

 

Quote

So Leo scoffing that its weaksauce and that you're suspecting he is a conman is simply undue expectations; he is not dealing out psychedelic substances, one-shot magic pills, he is dealing out process and progress-oriented meditation techniques.

This is from his website, I take it to mean he will enlighten people

 

"But for the first time I did not know what is me and what is not me. What was me was spread all over the place."

"It is my wish and my blessing this must happen to you. Whether you climb Mount Everest or not, whether you become the richest man on this planet or not, your experience of life on this planet should be pleasant. You must live blissfully and go. This much should happen to every human being. Everyone deserves it and everyone is capable of it."

[Carl-Richard]

3 hours ago, Elliott said:

How can you say this

and then this?

This is from his website

"It is my wish and my blessing this must happen to you. Whether you climb Mount Everest or not, whether you become the richest man on this planet or not, your experience of life on this planet should be pleasant. You must live blissfully and go. This much should happen to every human being. Everyone deserves it and everyone is capable of it."

It's without a doubt that people who have became enlightened meditated beforehand, and Sadhguru is offering meditations. There is nothing difficult about this.

 

3 hours ago, Elliott said:

If he's using without a doubt techniques, you think it's a weird standard of me to expect to see one person that appears enlightened? A ton of people go through his teachings, I shouldn't expect to be able to find one on the internet, if he's using "without a doubt techniques"?

Try to find that for Rupert Spira or any other teachers you believe are enlightened, a person who is enlightened and said those teachers helped them. Yes, it's a weird standard to have.

 

3 hours ago, Elliott said:

That's not what Sadhguru or I mean by enlightenment, here's Sadhguru's words

"But for the first time I did not know what is me and what is not me. What was me was spread all over the place."

 

This is from his website, I take it to mean he will enlighten people

 

"But for the first time I did not know what is me and what is not me. What was me was spread all over the place."

"It is my wish and my blessing this must happen to you. Whether you climb Mount Everest or not, whether you become the richest man on this planet or not, your experience of life on this planet should be pleasant. You must live blissfully and go. This much should happen to every human being. Everyone deserves it and everyone is capable of it."

He will enlighten people, yes. Meditations is one way, transmissions from being in his presence (Grace) is one way, saving the soil so that you can be alive and focus on enlightenment is one way. Do you think he will wave a magic wand or something? *poof* "Yoo are now Enlitened — Namaste".

Edited October 13 by Carl-Richard

[Elliott]

31 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

It's without a doubt that people who have became enlightened meditated beforehand, and Sadhguru is offering meditations. There is nothing difficult about this.

Yet, you can't show me a Sadhguru follower that has done it, millions of followers. 

Quote

Try to find that for Rupert Spira or any other teachers you believe are enlightened, a person who is enlightened and said those teachers helped them. Yes, it's a weird standard to have.

Spira doesn't claim to enlighten people.

"It is my wish and my blessing this must happen to you. Whether you climb Mount Everest or not, whether you become the richest man on this planet or not, your experience of life on this planet should be pleasant. You must live blissfully and go. This much should happen to every human being. Everyone deserves it and everyone is capable of it."-Sadhguru

Quote

 

He will enlighten people, yes. Meditations is one way, transmissions from being in his presence (Grace) is one way, saving the soil so that you can be alive and focus on enlightenment is one way. Do you think he will wave a magic wand or something? *poof* "Yoo are now Enlitened — Namaste".

 

Edited October 13 by Elliott

[Leo Gura]

21 minutes ago, Elliott said:

"It is my wish and my blessing this must happen to you. Whether you climb Mount Everest or not, whether you become the richest man on this planet or not, your experience of life on this planet should be pleasant. You must live blissfully and go. This much should happen to every human being. Everyone deserves it and everyone is capable of it."-Sadhguru

Far from everyone is capable of that.

No Gaza child is capable of living blissfully when they are locked in a warzone.

[Carl-Richard]

43 minutes ago, Elliott said:

Yet, you can't show me a Sadhguru follower that has done it, millions of followers. 

Spira and all the other enlightened people you know probably have millions of followers combined. Certainly you should be able to find just one, right?

 

43 minutes ago, Elliott said:

Spira doesn't claim to enlighten people.

"It is my wish and my blessing this must happen to you. Whether you climb Mount Everest or not, whether you become the richest man on this planet or not, your experience of life on this planet should be pleasant. You must live blissfully and go. This much should happen to every human being. Everyone deserves it and everyone is capable of it."-Sadhguru

Quote

The Rupert Spira Foundation Information

[...] The mission of the foundation is making peace accessible, available across the world, to as many people as possible. [...]

https://rupertspira.com/watch-listen/archive/love-is-the-reality-of-everything/the-rupert-spira-foundation-information/

 

Quote

I always thought of Bliss as this extraordinary feeling, but it just means Peace, or even as the Buddhists put it, cautious not to objectify the experience, “the absence of suffering.” So that’s something I’ve tried to do in the book, to demystify enlightenment: not to dumb it down in any way, but to divest it of all the exotic cultural packaging that it acquired from the exotic cultures of India and China and Japan and Tibet, and to show that what is traditionally called enlightenment or awakening is simply the recognition of the nature of our being. Not the being that we might become if we practice hard enough, but the being that each of us is now, but which we do not see clearly, because of its entanglement with the content of experience. So I wanted to bring it very close, right down to earth, and within everybody’s reach. 

https://www.watkinsmagazine.com/you-are-the-happiness-you-seek-an-interview-with-rupert-spira

Spira certainly wishes ("claims") to enlighten people just as much as Sadhguru.

[Elliott]

11 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

Spira and all the other enlightened people you know probably have millions of followers combined. Certainly you should be able to find just one, right?

I'm not making the following claim, you are, I disagree with this claim for any teacher.

13 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

It's without a doubt that people who have became enlightened meditated beforehand, and Sadhguru is offering meditations. There is nothing difficult about this.

 

He will enlighten people, yes. Meditations is one way, transmissions from being in his presence (Grace) is one way, saving the soil so that you can be alive and focus on enlightenment is one way. Do you think he will wave a magic wand or something? *poof* "Yoo are now Enlitened — Namaste".

Although, I think I can find a Spira student that you would think is enlightened.

 

Quote

https://rupertspira.com/watch-listen/archive/love-is-the-reality-of-everything/the-rupert-spira-foundation-information/

 

https://www.watkinsmagazine.com/you-are-the-happiness-you-seek-an-interview-with-rupert-spira

Spira certainly wishes ("claims") to enlighten people just as much as Sadhguru.

Wish, isn't a claim to enlighten people. Who doesn't wish it? You see no difference? "Wish"(and here are my strongest teachings for free) vs. 'It is my blessing this must happen to you, everyone deserves it, everyone is capable of it. Our most serious teachings are $3,500, we accept cash or bitcoin, Namaste.'

 

 

"The Rupert Spira Foundation Information

[...] The mission of the "

"something I’ve tried to do in the book"-Spira

 

"It is my wish and my blessing this must happen to you. Whether you climb Mount Everest or not, whether you become the richest man on this planet or not, your experience of life on this planet should be pleasant. You must live blissfully and go. This much should happen to every human being. Everyone deserves it and everyone is capable of it."-Sadhguru

 

To me, Sadhguru claims to enlighten people, and paywalls his highest teachings, Spira is just claiming he's working to try to, and puts his highest stuff out for free.

I'm not saying Spira enlightens people, but why would I have a problem with someone saying they're trying to do that. There's a massive difference between "trying" and actually doing, a massive difference between "my mission" and  "it is my blessing to you, send me $3,500". Spiras book is $14.

Spiras target audience is also the western first world, Sadhgurus largely includes the poorer third world, which makes the contrast even worse to me.

 

If he and you would stop acting like he can lead people to enlightenment, or, you show me an individual enlightened by him, I would have no issue.

 

It seems you think he is teaching enlightenment publicly, but puting an extra spiritual experience behind a paywall. I think his claims mislead his followers into being inticed by his advanced teachings being behind a paywall, like the secret stuff will substantially help them toward enlightenment. I think most of his followers believe in the esoteric version rather than your simply meditate version.

Edited October 13 by Elliott

[OBEler]

On 10.10.2025 at 2:01 AM, Leo Gura said:

Yes, he claims that.

It's not a big deal in my opinion. Doesn't detract from his understanding of God.

My biggest gripe with Sadhguru is that he acts like he is not a genetic freak and he misleads people into thinking his results are normal. No one following him will get his results. He acts like shutting off the mind is just a normal skill. That is so misleading. He is fooling normies into thinking taking a few of his classes will give them mastery of their minds -- which it utter boloney. He is doing the analog of a professional bodybuilder on steroids selling thigh-masters and pull-up bars to people on TV, as if they will ever reach his level that way, but they believe they will.

Wait ..he is not fooling them. These yoga exercises he teaches are powerful. I witnessed myself what it does to the people and myself. It can awaken your Kundalini. It's total normal that people get mystical states in his classes. It works and his lifestyle is contributing to that too. 

I think you were somehow not ready as you participated in his classes. That can happen.

 

[Carl-Richard]

9 hours ago, Elliott said:

I'm not making the following claim, you are, I disagree with this claim for any teacher.

Although, I think I can find a Spira student that you would think is enlightened.

So let me get this straight: you used this weird standard (finding an enlightened person saying that the teacher helped them) to claim Sadhguru is a conman (because you couldn't find it). When pressed on it, not being able to find it for any teacher, you claim all teachers are conmen. Ok.

 

9 hours ago, Elliott said:

Wish, isn't a claim to enlighten people. Who doesn't wish it? You see no difference? "Wish"(and here are my strongest teachings for free) vs. 'It is my blessing this must happen to you, everyone deserves it, everyone is capable of it. Our most serious teachings are $3,500, we accept cash or bitcoin, Namaste.'

To me, Sadhguru claims to enlighten people, and paywalls his highest teachings, Spira is just claiming he's working to try to, and puts his highest stuff out for free.

So it's a wish + "claim" + paywall for "strongest teachings" now? And the paywall has to be larger than a book now? Ok, Mr. Ad Hoc. First show me where Sadhguru "claims" to enlighten people, don't give me a quote where he says he "wishes" to enlighten people.

Until then, here is another quote from Spira:

Quote

[Question] There are those who wish to be recognised as teachers but are misguided and do not possess the ability to help earnest seekers go ‘all the way’. 

[Rupert] That may be so, but it is not the case here. I do not wished to be recognised as a teacher or indeed as anything else. I wish the reality that is being pointed to in these communications to be recognised. If you are with a teacher who is not able to take you ‘all the way’, sooner or later this will become clear and you will move on, grateful for what has been received so far and, at the same time, glad to be moving on.

He wishes you to become enlightened, and he also doesn't deny being able to take you all the way.

 

9 hours ago, Elliott said:

a massive difference between "my mission" and  "it is my blessing to you, send me $3,500". Spiras book is $14.

Spiras target audience is also the western first world, Sadhgurus largely includes the poorer third world, which makes the contrast even worse to me.

First off, where did you get $3500 from? Secondly, what's worse: taking 4000$ for a retreat where you allegedly give the same teachings as your free teachings or taking 3500$ for stronger teachings?

Both Rupert Spira and Sadhguru offer hardship scholarships for reduced price, and Sadhguru also does rural outreach programs (in third world countries) where everything offered is free.

 

9 hours ago, Elliott said:

If he and you would stop acting like he can lead people to enlightenment, or, you show me an individual enlightened by him, I would have no issue.

Not true, that's just two of your ad hoc arguments. You will find more.

 

9 hours ago, Elliott said:

It seems you think he is teaching enlightenment publicly, but puting an extra spiritual experience behind a paywall. I think his claims mislead his followers into being inticed by his advanced teachings being behind a paywall, like the secret stuff will substantially help them toward enlightenment. I think most of his followers believe in the esoteric version rather than your simply meditate version.

As far as I'm aware, the "esoteric version" I've been talking about, the one that is potentially destabilizing and dangerous, is not even behind a paywall. It's behind a wall of Sadhguru personally deciding to give it to you.

Edited October 13 by Carl-Richard

[Elliott]

5 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

So let me get this straight: you used this weird standard (fiinding an enlightened person saying that the teacher helped them) to claim Sadhguru is a conman. When pressed on it, not being able to find it for any teacher, you claim all teachers are conmen. Ok.

No, I don't consider the others conmen, I haven't seen them lead people to believe they can enlighten people and they publish their deepest stuff for free.

I said I think I can find someone enlightened by Spira, you don't think i can? Do you want me to? It might take some work, I'm not in the 'Spira community', barely know it.

How about Peter Ralston, he has a protégé Brendan, and didn't Leo even study under him? Do you consider his protégé Brendan enlightened or him contributing to Leo's enlightenment?

Jean Klein taught Francis Lucille, Francis taught Spira.

Again, it's not my position saying these are enlightening masters, it's purely yours. Are you working some psychological experiment on me? It's okay if you are, but I'm pretty much done here.

5 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

 

 

So it's a wish + "claim" + paywall for "strongest teachings" now? And the paywall has to be larger than a book now? Ok, Mr. Ad Hoc. First show me where Sadhguru "claims" to enlighten people, don't give me a quote where he says he "wishes" to enlighten people.

The quote I posted said 'it is my blessing that this should happen to you'. I have no problem with his "wish".

You're moving goalposts now, you yourself said he leads people to enlightenment, even if sadguhuru doesn't explicitly say it, people are led to believe it, like you do.

Now, you could say people believe the others will lead them to enlightenment too, but I don't notice them putting their 'deepest' secrets behind paywalls.

Quote

Until then, here is another quote from Spira:

He wishes you to become enlightened, and he also doesn't deny being able to take you all the way.

 

What's worse: taking 4000$ for a retreat where you allegedly give the same teachings as your free teachings or taking 3500$ for stronger teachings?

Both are great, neither are bad, what's bad is leading people to misbelieve he can enlighten you while puting his deep stuff behind a paywall.

It's not some complicated position, you disagree, that's fine.

Quote

Both Rupert Spira and Sadhguru offer hardship scholarships for reduced price, and Sadhguru also does rural outreach programs (in third world countries) where many are offered free.

 

Not true, that's just two of your ad hoc arguments. You will find more.

It's not ad hoc, there are other conmen like sadhguru but he's the topic of discussion.

Quote

As far as I'm aware, the "esoteric version" I've been talking about, the one that is potentially destabilizing and dangerous, is not even behind a paywall. It's behind a wall of Sadhguru personally deciding to give it to you.

I wasn't meaning what you consider esoteric. You previously said Leo gives an esoteric view of people like Sadguhuru but you believe that's wrong to do, that just brute force meditation get's you to enlightenment. I meant what others and Leo consider as esoteric. Do you think most people believe enlightenment is just daily meditation, or do most people believe there's some esoteric method? I was referring to the latter, what I believe is the common idea.

Edited October 13 by Elliott

[theoneandnone]

I’m really surprised this topic out of all people sadhguru blew up…..

[Carl-Richard]

14 hours ago, Elliott said:

No, I don't consider the others conmen, I haven't seen them lead people to believe they can enlighten people and they publish their deepest stuff for free.

I said I think I can find someone enlightened by Spira, you don't think i can? Do you want me to? It might take some work, I'm not in the 'Spira community', barely know it.

How about Peter Ralston, he has a protégé Brendan, and didn't Leo even study under him? Do you consider his protégé Brendan enlightened or him contributing to Leo's enlightenment?

Jean Klein taught Francis Lucille, Francis taught Spira.

Again, it's not my position saying these are enlightening masters, it's purely yours. Are you working some psychological experiment on me? It's okay if you are, but I'm pretty much done here.

 

The quote I posted said 'it is my blessing that this should happen to you'. I have no problem with his "wish".

You're moving goalposts now, you yourself said he leads people to enlightenment, even if sadguhuru doesn't explicitly say it, people are led to believe it, like you do.

I think it's weird that you think people who dedicate their life to spreading enlightenment don't claim to be able to enlighten people. "But I mean claim as in a literal quote". Yeah, even if you manage to pedantically Houdini yourself out of every quote I throw at you, ultimately, I don't think it matters much (but feel free to make a blistering case for that); it's just honestly very weird that you have to be this literal:

If a sailor offers sailing trips but he has never said literally "I'm able to take you over shore", that doesn't remove your obvious belief that you think they are able to do that (and that they themselves think they are able to do that). Again, that's honestly very weird. And then indeed, that you have to boil it down to extremely select word choices, "it's my blessing" ✔️ , vs "I've tried my best" ❌, is just laughable in my opinion. This is the epitome of pedantry.

And by the way, last time I checked, Leo is not Enlightened (he is awake), and from what I have seen from Brendan, he doesn't seem Enlightened either. But maybe I would have to look into it more.

 

14 hours ago, Elliott said:

Now, you could say people believe the others will lead them to enlightenment too, but I don't notice them putting their 'deepest' secrets behind paywalls.

Both are great, neither are bad, what's bad is leading people to misbelieve he can enlighten you while puting his deep stuff behind a paywall.

It's not some complicated position, you disagree, that's fine.

Let's explore the claim that Sadhguru hides his deepest teachings behind a paywall. Where did you get this idea from, and what specifically does it refer to? And how is it categorically different from what Rupert Spira puts behind his various paywalls?

 

And I'm just saying, I can feel when I'm having a substantive discussion where the points are crystal clear and there is a logical progression to the discussion; where the interlocutor actually has a firm position they've thought out in advance and that they're not constructing as they go and where they don't engage in insane levels of pedantry to navigate away from unforeseen contradictions to their position. In all honesty, this ain't it.

Edited October 14 by Carl-Richard

[Elliott]

3 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

I think it's weird that you think people who dedicate their life to spreading enlightenment don't claim to be able to enlighten people. "But I mean claim as in a literal quote". Yeah, even if you manage to pedantically Houdini yourself out of every quote I throw at you, ultimately, I don't think it matters much (but feel free to make a blistering case for that); it's just honestly very weird that you have to be this literal:

If a sailor offers sailing trips but he has never said literally "I'm able to take you over shore", that doesn't remove your obvious belief that you think they are able to do that (and that they themselves think they are able to do that). Again, that's honestly very weird. And then indeed, that you have to boil it down to extremely select word choices, "it's my blessing" ✔️ , vs "I've tried my best" ❌, is just laughable in my opinion. This is the epitome of pedantry.

Enlightenment isn't like going on a cruise, to me. We have radically different ideas of enlightenment.

Quote

And by the way, last time I checked, Leo is not Enlightened (he is awake), and from what I have seen from Brendan, he doesn't seem Enlightened either. But maybe I would have to look into it more.

What about Jean Klein taught Francis Lucille, Francis taught Spira? Do these guys seem Enlightened to to you? Just to clarify though, it's not my position in our main conversation that anyone can lead people to enlightenment though, it's yours. As you say in your last paragraph here about a "firm position", this is a tangent from the conversation but by you.

Quote

Let's explore the claim that Sadhguru hides his deepest teachings behind a paywall. Where did you get this idea from, and what specifically does it refer to? And how is it categorically different from what Rupert Spira puts behind his various paywalls?

So, you disagree, right? I can't tell your thoughts on this.

 

See the image below, it goes with this quote

"An advanced full-day
experiential program
with Sadhguru

This program goes beyond anything you've experienced. Expect the unexpected.

Through powerful processes and guided meditations, Sadhguru leads you into deeper states of consciousness and helps release long-held negativity.

Step into a space of joy and clarity, where life unfolds in its true essence.

Guided Meditations

Powerful meditations led by Sadhguru to explore higher states of consciousness

Higher States of Awareness

Opportunity to experience deeper states of awareness and spiritual growth"

 

 

Spira

"Description

For those of us who love to dive deeply into the heart of the non-dual understanding, retreats offer an unprecedented opportunity: seven days with Rupert and friends, nestled in a beautiful location in nature, where we steep together in the peace of our true nature. Retreats gather us in the heart of being, where we spend our days in self-abidance, friendship and creativity."

https://rupertspira.com/events/events/seven-day-retreat-at-the-vedanta-21-28-november-2025/

 

 

See photo below. Sadhguru's has "soak in ecstasy of enlightenment with sadhguru", and then from the quotation above "This program goes beyond anything you've experienced. Expect the unexpected"

Spira's has "we spend our days in self-abidance, friendship and creativity."

I think Sadhguru is pretty explicitly selling enlightenment or deeper states of consciousness here, Spira seems more like 'come hangout with me, you've seen my videos it will be like that', I don't notice anything like Sadhguru's "This program goes beyond anything you've experienced. Expect the unexpected."

 

Quote

And I'm just saying, I can feel when I'm having a substantive discussion where the points are crystal clear and there is a logical progression to the discussion; where the interlocutor actually has a firm position they've thought out in advance and that they're not constructing as they go and where they don't engage in insane levels of pedantry to navigate away from unforeseen contradictions to their position. In all honesty, this ain't it.

I wasn't seeking a discussion about this let alone a substantive one, I just gave my two sentence crude opinion, to no one in particular. I never expected that you would be so serious about this. This is not a topic I have much care about.

My position never changed and I did not navigate any contradictions. I think you may have been a bit emotionally reactive with my first comment and didn't take time to see what I actually said and didn't say, Instead, assuming my position was that spiritual teachers shouldn't charge, as I had to repeatedly tell you that wasn't what I said, and assumed I have the same idea of enlightenment and 'how to attain enlightenment' as you do.

 

Edited October 14 by Elliott

[Ishanga]

From my involvement with Isha, most all the money goes back into the foundation to pay its expenses, Sadhguru from I know has used vehicles, he makes his own cloths, the travel he does is not leisure time, its work.. I for one think he should take time off every year to recoup but he doesn't he's go go go full on all the time, I've never seen anyone like this in the world, totally selfless to really his own needs and personal wants...

To criticize it is nuts, we should emulate it, be a small part of it, he wants undercover Yogi's for the most part, yes he needs ppl at the ashrams because of the volume of ppl visiting, but he wants Us outside in the world being the transformation so ppl can see it is real and they can have it too, that is  worthy cause in my books...

He's been accused of most everything nasty under the sun, stealing kidneys, stealing ppl, stealing land, etc,,,this happen when You try to do big thing, enemies, the elite show up and try to stop You, they don't want change the want us to be their puppets, and to not be Self Realized and Aware, as once we are we bring back our own power and screw it too them!

 

[Ishanga]

[Elliott]

46 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

 Sadhguru from I know has used vehicles, he makes his own cloths, the travel he does is not leisure time, its work.. I for one think he should take time off every year to recoup but he doesn't he's go go go full on all the time, I've never seen anyone like this in the world, totally selfless to really his own needs and personal wants...

 

This looks brand new to me, like a $30,000 bike. Do you consider Taylor Swift to live selflessly?

 

Some people may incorrectly think, "motorcycle, efficient!", no, it's not! My non-hybrid car that can haul 5 people gets better mpg. Let alone a bus for his 16 people he says is with him "4 motorcycles, sixteen people"

An environmentalist.......

Edited October 14 by Elliott