Sadhguru on Dr k

[Salvijus]

2 minutes ago, Hojo said:

You are making something complicated thats not because someone told you a rule that you beleive.

Okay 🙏

Edited Saturday at 07:37 PM by Salvijus

[Carl-Richard]

8 hours ago, Elliott said:

You seem to just keep looking past what I say my reservation is with Sadhguru. Spira puts his enlightenment teachings out up front for free, Sadhguru hides his supposed deep teachings behind a paywall: you don't see a difference between Spira and Sadhguru in this regard?

I think it's that you're changing the goalpost and throwing spaghetti at the wall because you initially also had a problem with his environmentalism, but anyway:

I think Sadhguru's free teachings go just as deep as Spira's teachings. I'm curious why you think that is not the case.

And ok, so deepest teachings behind a paywall makes you a conman. Is Leo Gura a conman?:

On 5.7.2023 at 6:17 PM, Leo Gura said:

My teachings about alien stuff will be confined to my course.

Nothing about my work has fundamentally changed. All the very radical stuff I will simply lock behind a paywall for those who want it.

What I post on YT is designed for mass consumption and normies. What I post on my blog and elsewhere is designed to be more personal and more radical -- the stuff I shouldn't say on YT.

 

Again, keeping some teachings hidden and some public might be for some other reason than simply draining people's wallets.

[Elliott]

4 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

I think it's that you're changing the goalpost and throwing spaghetti at the wall because you initially also had a problem with his environmentalism, but anyway:

I was never against his environmentalism, I'm an environmentalist. You keep superimposing some assumption you have about my position instead of just reading what I've said in black and white.

Quote

I think Sadhguru's free teachings go just as deep as Spira's teachings. I'm curious why you think that is not the case.

Again you're superimposing an assumption onto what I've said. I didn't say his public teachings were weaker than Spira.

Quote

And ok, so deepest teachings behind a paywall makes you a conman. Is Leo Gura a conman?:

No. 'Enlightenment'/"curing this mental illness" behind a paywall with NO proof.

Quote

Again, keeping some teachings hidden and some public might be for some other reason than simply draining people's wallets.

As I've already agreed on this point, absolutely.

 

I keep wondering if you're mixing up other people's comments, but I see no one arguing what you're arguing against. You're being super defensive of Sadghuru rather than having a discussion.

Edited yesterday at 12:33 AM by Elliott

[Elliott]

I would be his biggest fan if he did his kriya stuff for money and planted trees, my issue is his enlightenment/healing claims in combination with that.

 

 

And for position background, so you don'tmake assumptions; I don't think he's enlightened or gets people to enlightenment, I think he's misleading, "mentally ill" as he calls it.

Edited Saturday at 08:54 PM by Elliott

[Hojo]

@Salvijus please stop with the cringe hands together. People that get into arguments and then end with a take care or hands together are THE most cringe people on the planet. We are having a disagreement dont pretentiously do shit like that its not spiritual and its dishonest.

Spirituality 101 how to tell if a spiritual person is gaslighting you

Answer : take care 🙏

Edited Saturday at 09:04 PM by Hojo

[Carl-Richard]

7 minutes ago, Elliott said:

No. 'Enlightenment' behind a paywall with NO proof.

Lol, up until now you seemed to present each part of that statement separately as if it was ad hoc, but I guess now it's more clear.

You're looking for very specific proof, of people giving testimonies that they were "enlightened" using Sadhguru's techniques. This is hard because people are of course discouraged to call themselves enlightened (it can be seen as pompous) and I simply wouldn't expect an enlightened person to frame their enlightenment as mainly a product of a course and make a video giving a testimony of the course and suggesting that the course works (and you must buy it too!), it's just weird and odd as it's a much more personal journey than that.

I simply rely on gradual proof: his techniques are similar to other techniques that work, and you have scientific studies showing effects in the right direction where the ultimate outcome is consistent with enlightenment, and of course, "I read energy". That he wants to put some of that behind a paywall is again reasonable. If you want to put extra skepticism because you lack this very specific kind of proof that most probably doesn't exist, that's your prerogative.

[Carl-Richard]

48 minutes ago, Elliott said:

And for position background, so you don'tmake assumptions; I don't think he's enlightened or gets people to enlightenment, I think he's misleading, "mentally ill" as he calls it.

Is there anybody you think is enlightened? Do you think enlightenment is possible at all?

[Elliott]

2 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

Lol, up until now you seemed to present each part of that statement separately as if it was ad hoc, but I guess now it's more clear.

You're looking for very specific proof, of people giving testimonies that they were "enlightened" using Sadhguru's techniques. This is hard because people are of course discouraged to call themselves enlightened (it can be seen as pompous) and I simply wouldn't expect an enlightened person to frame their enlightenment as mainly a product of a course and make a video giving a testimony of the course and suggesting that the course works (and you must buy it too!), it's just weird and odd as it's a much more personal journey than that.

Not a testimonial, someone that you think seems enlightened, that owes an important part of their growth to Sadhguru.

Quote

I simply rely on gradual proof: his techniques are similar to other techniques that work, and you have scientific studies showing effects in the right direction where the ultimate outcome is consistent with enlightenment, and of course, "I read energy". That he wants to put some of that behind a paywall is again reasonable. If you want to put extra skepticism because you lack this very specific kind of proof that most probably doesn't exist, that's your prerogative.

I'm not trying to change your mind about Sadhguru, I just gave my opinion. I'm not even trying to dissuade people from his course, it seems to me to be very beneficial to people. My qualm is a bit specific.

You and I disagree on what enlightenment is. I agree with the standard explanation Sadhguru gives, but when you guys, I think he uses "Scientific studies" like you just mentioned, when you start going that direction I'm no longer with you.

 

1 hour ago, Carl-Richard said:

Is there anybody you think is enlightened? Do you think enlightenment is possible at all?

The others you mentioned previously. I use the standard definition of enlightenment.

 

I'm not a formal type of communicator, I know this, I try to be gracious to and understanding of whom I'm speaking with because of this. Not that I'm apologizing, I find most people don't understand each other anyway, so it seems best to focus on clarifying questions rather than elaborate responses.

Edited Saturday at 11:34 PM by Elliott

[Carl-Richard]

8 hours ago, Elliott said:

Not a testimonial, someone that you think seems enlightened, that owes an important part of their growth to Sadhguru.

That's still very specific. Nothing I can find. But this too feels ad hoc. Where are you pulling these weird standards from? Somebody has to be enlightened and tell you Sadhguru helped them; it doesn't suffice that Sadhguru's techniques are without a doubt similar to the techniques other people have used to become enlightened?

Enlightenment in terms of the practices you repeat daily are not that incredibly mindblowing. It's literally just good old meditation. It's the consistency that gets people in my estimation. Gary Weber became enlightened after he did 20 000 hours of morning yoga while working as a head of R&D in material science with a quarter billion dollar budget. That's being consistent, not performing some mindblowingly esoteric yogic hyper-technology.

Even Sadhguru meditated daily since he was 12. It's just that he didn't do it for enlightenment at that stage, he was simply taught it's what you do to be healthy. Yet people call him a "genetic freak" because he awoke while walking up a hill and sitting a rock. Mfkers I have awoken while walking up a hill (not sure about the sitting on a rock part). I think Leo's esoterification of people like Sadhguru gives the complete wrong image.

And it gives the wrong impression of what he is selling. I don't think he is selling something completely different from what he is talking about in his free talks, or what Spira is talking about in his talks (except indeed the very deep esoteric techniques that he allegedly hides from even people who buy his IE course). He simply operationalizes it and makes it more structured and made-to-go.

So Leo scoffing that its weaksauce and that you're suspecting he is a conman is simply undue expectations; he is not dealing out psychedelic substances, one-shot magic pills, he is dealing out process and progress-oriented meditation techniques.

 

8 hours ago, Elliott said:

You and I disagree on what enlightenment is.

How do you know that?

Edited yesterday at 07:40 AM by Carl-Richard

[Salvijus]

10 hours ago, Hojo said:

@Salvijus please stop with the cringe hands together. People that get into arguments and then end with a take care or hands together are THE most cringe people on the planet. We are having a disagreement dont pretentiously do shit like that its not spiritual and its dishonest.

Spirituality 101 how to tell if a spiritual person is gaslighting you

Answer : take care 🙏

Okay 🤝 

🕺 🕺 🕺 

 

Edited yesterday at 07:20 AM by Salvijus

[Hojo]

@SalvijusUsing Jesus as a gaslight

Blaspheme on God.

Edited yesterday at 07:40 AM by Hojo

[Salvijus]

@Hojo look, I offered you a peaceful departure because I saw we won't reach an agreement on anything. It's up to you what you want to do with it. If you want something more from me, you'll know where to find me - on a dance floor. 

Take care ✌️🕺 🌟 

 

Edited yesterday at 08:38 AM by Salvijus

[Elliott]

 

23 hours ago, Elliott said:

Not a testimonial, someone that you think seems enlightened, that owes an important part of their growth to Sadhguru.

 

23 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

That's still very specific. Nothing I can find. But this too feels ad hoc. Where are you pulling these weird standards from? Somebody has to be enlightened and tell you Sadhguru helped them; 

How can you say this

and then this?

23 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

 Sadhguru's techniques are without a doubt similar to the techniques other people have used to become enlightened?

This is from his website

"It is my wish and my blessing this must happen to you. Whether you climb Mount Everest or not, whether you become the richest man on this planet or not, your experience of life on this planet should be pleasant. You must live blissfully and go. This much should happen to every human being. Everyone deserves it and everyone is capable of it."

If he's using without a doubt techniques, you think it's a weird standard of me to expect to see one person that appears enlightened? A ton of people go through his teachings, I shouldn't expect to be able to find one on the internet, if he's using "without a doubt techniques"?

I don't believe they are "without a doubt", I have doubt, I have no confidence in them actually. I don't believe there is a '10 step plan to enlightenment'.

 

Quote

Enlightenment in terms of the practices you repeat daily are not that incredibly mindblowing. It's literally just good old meditation. It's the consistency that gets people in my estimation. Gary Weber became enlightened after he did 20 000 hours of morning yoga while working as a head of R&D in material science with a quarter billion dollar budget. That's being consistent, not performing some mindblowingly esoteric yogic hyper-technology.

That's not what Sadhguru or I mean by enlightenment, here's Sadhguru's words

"But for the first time I did not know what is me and what is not me. What was me was spread all over the place."

Quote

Even Sadhguru meditated daily since he was 12. It's just that he didn't do it for enlightenment at that stage, he was simply taught it's what you do to be healthy. Yet people call him a "genetic freak" because he awoke while walking up a hill and sitting a rock. Mfkers I have awoken while walking up a hill (not sure about the sitting on a rock part). I think Leo's esoterification of people like Sadhguru gives the complete wrong image.

And it gives the wrong impression of what he is selling. I don't think he is selling something completely different from what he is talking about in his free talks, or what Spira is talking about in his talks (except indeed the very deep esoteric techniques that he allegedly hides from even people who buy his IE course). He simply operationalizes it and makes it more structured and made-to-go.

 

Quote

So Leo scoffing that its weaksauce and that you're suspecting he is a conman is simply undue expectations; he is not dealing out psychedelic substances, one-shot magic pills, he is dealing out process and progress-oriented meditation techniques.

This is from his website, I take it to mean he will enlighten people

 

"But for the first time I did not know what is me and what is not me. What was me was spread all over the place."

"It is my wish and my blessing this must happen to you. Whether you climb Mount Everest or not, whether you become the richest man on this planet or not, your experience of life on this planet should be pleasant. You must live blissfully and go. This much should happen to every human being. Everyone deserves it and everyone is capable of it."

[Carl-Richard]

3 hours ago, Elliott said:

How can you say this

and then this?

This is from his website

"It is my wish and my blessing this must happen to you. Whether you climb Mount Everest or not, whether you become the richest man on this planet or not, your experience of life on this planet should be pleasant. You must live blissfully and go. This much should happen to every human being. Everyone deserves it and everyone is capable of it."

It's without a doubt that people who have became enlightened meditated beforehand, and Sadhguru is offering meditations. There is nothing difficult about this.

 

3 hours ago, Elliott said:

If he's using without a doubt techniques, you think it's a weird standard of me to expect to see one person that appears enlightened? A ton of people go through his teachings, I shouldn't expect to be able to find one on the internet, if he's using "without a doubt techniques"?

Try to find that for Rupert Spira or any other teachers you believe are enlightened, a person who is enlightened and said those teachers helped them. Yes, it's a weird standard to have.

 

3 hours ago, Elliott said:

That's not what Sadhguru or I mean by enlightenment, here's Sadhguru's words

"But for the first time I did not know what is me and what is not me. What was me was spread all over the place."

 

This is from his website, I take it to mean he will enlighten people

 

"But for the first time I did not know what is me and what is not me. What was me was spread all over the place."

"It is my wish and my blessing this must happen to you. Whether you climb Mount Everest or not, whether you become the richest man on this planet or not, your experience of life on this planet should be pleasant. You must live blissfully and go. This much should happen to every human being. Everyone deserves it and everyone is capable of it."

He will enlighten people, yes. Meditations is one way, transmissions from being in his presence (Grace) is one way, saving the soil so that you can be alive and focus on enlightenment is one way. Do you think he will wave a magic wand or something? *poof* "Yoo are now Enlitened — Namaste".

Edited 21 hours ago by Carl-Richard

[Elliott]

31 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

It's without a doubt that people who have became enlightened meditated beforehand, and Sadhguru is offering meditations. There is nothing difficult about this.

Yet, you can't show me a Sadhguru follower that has done it, millions of followers. 

Quote

Try to find that for Rupert Spira or any other teachers you believe are enlightened, a person who is enlightened and said those teachers helped them. Yes, it's a weird standard to have.

Spira doesn't claim to enlighten people.

"It is my wish and my blessing this must happen to you. Whether you climb Mount Everest or not, whether you become the richest man on this planet or not, your experience of life on this planet should be pleasant. You must live blissfully and go. This much should happen to every human being. Everyone deserves it and everyone is capable of it."-Sadhguru

Quote

 

He will enlighten people, yes. Meditations is one way, transmissions from being in his presence (Grace) is one way, saving the soil so that you can be alive and focus on enlightenment is one way. Do you think he will wave a magic wand or something? *poof* "Yoo are now Enlitened — Namaste".

 

Edited 20 hours ago by Elliott

[Leo Gura]

21 minutes ago, Elliott said:

"It is my wish and my blessing this must happen to you. Whether you climb Mount Everest or not, whether you become the richest man on this planet or not, your experience of life on this planet should be pleasant. You must live blissfully and go. This much should happen to every human being. Everyone deserves it and everyone is capable of it."-Sadhguru

Far from everyone is capable of that.

No Gaza child is capable of living blissfully when they are locked in a warzone.

[Carl-Richard]

43 minutes ago, Elliott said:

Yet, you can't show me a Sadhguru follower that has done it, millions of followers. 

Spira and all the other enlightened people you know probably have millions of followers combined. Certainly you should be able to find just one, right?

 

43 minutes ago, Elliott said:

Spira doesn't claim to enlighten people.

"It is my wish and my blessing this must happen to you. Whether you climb Mount Everest or not, whether you become the richest man on this planet or not, your experience of life on this planet should be pleasant. You must live blissfully and go. This much should happen to every human being. Everyone deserves it and everyone is capable of it."-Sadhguru

Quote

The Rupert Spira Foundation Information

[...] The mission of the foundation is making peace accessible, available across the world, to as many people as possible. [...]

https://rupertspira.com/watch-listen/archive/love-is-the-reality-of-everything/the-rupert-spira-foundation-information/

 

Quote

I always thought of Bliss as this extraordinary feeling, but it just means Peace, or even as the Buddhists put it, cautious not to objectify the experience, “the absence of suffering.” So that’s something I’ve tried to do in the book, to demystify enlightenment: not to dumb it down in any way, but to divest it of all the exotic cultural packaging that it acquired from the exotic cultures of India and China and Japan and Tibet, and to show that what is traditionally called enlightenment or awakening is simply the recognition of the nature of our being. Not the being that we might become if we practice hard enough, but the being that each of us is now, but which we do not see clearly, because of its entanglement with the content of experience. So I wanted to bring it very close, right down to earth, and within everybody’s reach. 

https://www.watkinsmagazine.com/you-are-the-happiness-you-seek-an-interview-with-rupert-spira

Spira certainly wishes ("claims") to enlighten people just as much as Sadhguru.

[Elliott]

11 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

Spira and all the other enlightened people you know probably have millions of followers combined. Certainly you should be able to find just one, right?

I'm not making the following claim, you are, I disagree with this claim for any teacher.

13 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

It's without a doubt that people who have became enlightened meditated beforehand, and Sadhguru is offering meditations. There is nothing difficult about this.

 

He will enlighten people, yes. Meditations is one way, transmissions from being in his presence (Grace) is one way, saving the soil so that you can be alive and focus on enlightenment is one way. Do you think he will wave a magic wand or something? *poof* "Yoo are now Enlitened — Namaste".

Although, I think I can find a Spira student that you would think is enlightened.

 

Quote

https://rupertspira.com/watch-listen/archive/love-is-the-reality-of-everything/the-rupert-spira-foundation-information/

 

https://www.watkinsmagazine.com/you-are-the-happiness-you-seek-an-interview-with-rupert-spira

Spira certainly wishes ("claims") to enlighten people just as much as Sadhguru.

Wish, isn't a claim to enlighten people. Who doesn't wish it? You see no difference? "Wish"(and here are my strongest teachings for free) vs. 'It is my blessing this must happen to you, everyone deserves it, everyone is capable of it. Our most serious teachings are $3,500, we accept cash or bitcoin, Namaste.'

 

 

"The Rupert Spira Foundation Information

[...] The mission of the "

"something I’ve tried to do in the book"-Spira

 

"It is my wish and my blessing this must happen to you. Whether you climb Mount Everest or not, whether you become the richest man on this planet or not, your experience of life on this planet should be pleasant. You must live blissfully and go. This much should happen to every human being. Everyone deserves it and everyone is capable of it."-Sadhguru

 

To me, Sadhguru claims to enlighten people, and paywalls his highest teachings, Spira is just claiming he's working to try to, and puts his highest stuff out for free.

I'm not saying Spira enlightens people, but why would I have a problem with someone saying they're trying to do that. There's a massive difference between "trying" and actually doing, a massive difference between "my mission" and  "it is my blessing to you, send me $3,500". Spiras book is $14.

Spiras target audience is also the western first world, Sadhgurus largely includes the poorer third world, which makes the contrast even worse to me.

 

If he and you would stop acting like he can lead people to enlightenment, or, you show me an individual enlightened by him, I would have no issue.

 

It seems you think he is teaching enlightenment publicly, but puting an extra spiritual experience behind a paywall. I think his claims mislead his followers into being inticed by his advanced teachings being behind a paywall, like the secret stuff will substantially help them toward enlightenment. I think most of his followers believe in the esoteric version rather than your simply meditate version.

Edited 8 hours ago by Elliott

[OBEler]

On 10.10.2025 at 2:01 AM, Leo Gura said:

Yes, he claims that.

It's not a big deal in my opinion. Doesn't detract from his understanding of God.

My biggest gripe with Sadhguru is that he acts like he is not a genetic freak and he misleads people into thinking his results are normal. No one following him will get his results. He acts like shutting off the mind is just a normal skill. That is so misleading. He is fooling normies into thinking taking a few of his classes will give them mastery of their minds -- which it utter boloney. He is doing the analog of a professional bodybuilder on steroids selling thigh-masters and pull-up bars to people on TV, as if they will ever reach his level that way, but they believe they will.

Wait ..he is not fooling them. These yoga exercises he teaches are powerful. I witnessed myself what it does to the people and myself. It can awaken your Kundalini. It's total normal that people get mystical states in his classes. It works and his lifestyle is contributing to that too. 

I think you were somehow not ready as you participated in his classes. That can happen.

 

[Carl-Richard]

9 hours ago, Elliott said:

I'm not making the following claim, you are, I disagree with this claim for any teacher.

Although, I think I can find a Spira student that you would think is enlightened.

So let me get this straight: you used this weird standard (finding an enlightened person saying that the teacher helped them) to claim Sadhguru is a conman (because you couldn't find it). When pressed on it, not being able to find it for any teacher, you claim all teachers are conmen. Ok.

 

9 hours ago, Elliott said:

Wish, isn't a claim to enlighten people. Who doesn't wish it? You see no difference? "Wish"(and here are my strongest teachings for free) vs. 'It is my blessing this must happen to you, everyone deserves it, everyone is capable of it. Our most serious teachings are $3,500, we accept cash or bitcoin, Namaste.'

To me, Sadhguru claims to enlighten people, and paywalls his highest teachings, Spira is just claiming he's working to try to, and puts his highest stuff out for free.

So it's a wish + "claim" + paywall for "strongest teachings" now? And the paywall has to be larger than a book now? Ok, Mr. Ad Hoc. First show me where Sadhguru "claims" to enlighten people, don't give me a quote where he says he "wishes" to enlighten people.

Until then, here is another quote from Spira:

Quote

[Question] There are those who wish to be recognised as teachers but are misguided and do not possess the ability to help earnest seekers go ‘all the way’. 

[Rupert] That may be so, but it is not the case here. I do not wished to be recognised as a teacher or indeed as anything else. I wish the reality that is being pointed to in these communications to be recognised. If you are with a teacher who is not able to take you ‘all the way’, sooner or later this will become clear and you will move on, grateful for what has been received so far and, at the same time, glad to be moving on.

He wishes you to become enlightened, and he also doesn't deny being able to take you all the way.

 

9 hours ago, Elliott said:

a massive difference between "my mission" and  "it is my blessing to you, send me $3,500". Spiras book is $14.

Spiras target audience is also the western first world, Sadhgurus largely includes the poorer third world, which makes the contrast even worse to me.

First off, where did you get $3500 from? Secondly, what's worse: taking 4000$ for a retreat where you allegedly give the same teachings as your free teachings or taking 3500$ for stronger teachings?

Both Rupert Spira and Sadhguru offer hardship scholarships for reduced price, and Sadhguru also does rural outreach programs (in third world countries) where everything offered is free.

 

9 hours ago, Elliott said:

If he and you would stop acting like he can lead people to enlightenment, or, you show me an individual enlightened by him, I would have no issue.

Not true, that's just two of your ad hoc arguments. You will find more.

 

9 hours ago, Elliott said:

It seems you think he is teaching enlightenment publicly, but puting an extra spiritual experience behind a paywall. I think his claims mislead his followers into being inticed by his advanced teachings being behind a paywall, like the secret stuff will substantially help them toward enlightenment. I think most of his followers believe in the esoteric version rather than your simply meditate version.

As far as I'm aware, the "esoteric version" I've been talking about, the one that is potentially destabilizing and dangerous, is not even behind a paywall. It's behind a wall of Sadhguru personally deciding to give it to you.

Edited 5 hours ago by Carl-Richard