Is Truth More Fundamental than Consciousness?

[Oppositionless]

I had this thought while watching Leo's video and reading this quote from Ramana maharshi 

"Only that which existsts in deep, dreamless sleep is real."

Is this pure Truth, which appears to simply be Nothingness, more fundamental than consciousness / experience? Or is Truth itself an experience?

[ExploringReality]

Truth and Consciousness are the same

[Hojo]

Truth is the experience of conciousness by itself.

[emil1234]

@Oppositionless according to ramana maharshi, awareness is still present in deep dreamless sleep. the mind only need be trained to recognize it

[Natasha Tori Maru]

@Oppositionless

This is alluding to the subject-object portion of our life we are consumed with.

You are the subject - the object being whatever you are witnessing (thing, thought, perception).

If you remove the object from the above - you are left with just you. The subject. With nothing to focus or fixate on. Just pure awareness. Where you exist in a state of being. We call this 'empty', but all words act to simply point at what awareness is without an object to focus on. So in dreamless sleep - deep sleep - there is just this... awareness (you) with no object.

This might lead to the next question - can the truth exist if we are not aware of it?

• All of reality arises within consciousness, or
• Truth arises prior to even consciousness - truth requires a witness

You could say 'truth', in the deepest sense, is identity (subject) with reality (object). Consciousness, in its deepest sense, is also identity with reality. They cannot be split in my eyes, they depend on each other: truth requires a witness; consciousness requires something to be true-of.

I think one cannot be more fundamental than the other. Our experience is generated by the activity of the subject (us, identity) and object (reality). 

Sort of like a whirlpool in the water cannot be separated from the water. It cannot exist without the water, it IS the water. Just as the water of the whirlpool makes up the whirlpool also. From the perspective of inside the whirlpool, you only ever know water as whirlpool.

 

[Natasha Tori Maru]

Using the whirlpool analogy above you could also say: 

• Absolute - Truth (water) is primary 
• Relative - Whirlpool is the way the truth shows itself

[Someone here]

@Oppositionless have you ever watached a single video from Leo brother ?  such a basic newbie question can't come from someone who watches Leo while doing the dishes .his entire career consists of saying in the darkness : consciousness is truth and truth is nothing. Nothing is consciousness and consciousness is truth .truth is consciousness and consciousness is nothing. 

[Oppositionless]

12 hours ago, Someone here said:

@Oppositionless have you ever watached a single video from Leo brother ?  such a basic newbie question can't come from someone who watches Leo while doing the dishes .his entire career consists of saying in the darkness : consciousness is truth and truth is nothing. Nothing is consciousness and consciousness is truth .truth is consciousness and consciousness is nothing. 

I don't just accept what Leo says. Some people on this forum , such as breaking the wall, have made interesting arguments for consciousness not being the absolute.

[cetus]

12 minutes ago, Oppositionless said:

I don't just accept what Leo says. Some people on this forum , such as breaking the wall, have made interesting arguments for consciousness not being the absolute.

Consciousness and reality appear mutually on the absolute like sea foam on the ocean.

[Natasha Tori Maru]

39 minutes ago, Oppositionless said:

I don't just accept what Leo says. Some people on this forum , such as breaking the wall, have made interesting arguments for consciousness not being the absolute.

It would be interesting to hear it as break down to fundamentals 

Breakingthewall expressed the opinion that perception was the same as awareness. I personally disagreed there, but maybe this ties to that?

[Someone here]

14 hours ago, Oppositionless said:

I don't just accept what Leo says. Some people on this forum , such as breaking the wall, have made interesting arguments for consciousness not being the absolute.

Definition of consciousness is everything in your direct experience right now.

Definition of absolute truth is the most fundamental thing in existence which cannot be reduced down to anything more fundamental and its the all and all pervasive. 

Consciousness =Absolute Reality .

[Oppositionless]

9 hours ago, Someone here said:

Definition of consciousness is everything in your direct experience right now.

Definition of absolute truth is the most fundamental thing in existence which cannot be reduced down to anything more fundamental and its the all and all pervasive. 

Consciousness =Absolute Reality .

It's so obvious. That's why I question it so much.

[Oppositionless]

23 hours ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

It would be interesting to hear it as break down to fundamentals 

Breakingthewall expressed the opinion that perception was the same as awareness. I personally disagreed there, but maybe this ties to that?

He told me consciousness wasn't the absolute (I believe ) in a thread awhile back I don't remember what it was.