Mega-thread on the damage caused by right wing conservatives

[Aaron p]

Couldn't find this on the site, but I think it would be super interesting to make a thread or mega-thread on specific individualised examples of how the political right hurts society? Politics is notoriously complex and twists and winds in ways that would put a porn star to shame. Would be great if we got a Leo level explanation that exposes all the crevasses and movements of the political right and each area of damage it inflicts and exactly how it inflicts it..

I myself was raised right and I grasp that right wing politics causes damage to society but it's a very shallow, half baked understanding. Can we maybe get a thread that fully fleshes out all the ways right wing policies damage civilisation? 

(Or if this already exists somewhere maybe link it?)

Edited September 12 by Aaron p

[Sugarcoat]

Good idea. I find I am not knowledgeable enough on these matters

[Aaron p]

No doubt from a politically oriented person's perspective, asking for a mega thread on how the right damages society would be like asking for a mega-thread on why the sky is blue lol. But we need some help clarifying exactly how the right damages society. 

@Sugarcoat I found this so far

 

 

[Sugarcoat]

18 hours ago, Aaron p said:

No doubt from a politically oriented person's perspective, asking for a mega thread on how the right damages society would be like asking for a mega-thread on why the sky is blue lol. But we need some help clarifying exactly how the right damages society. 

@Sugarcoat I found this so far

 

 

Thanks  

[Schizophonia]

22 hours ago, Aaron p said:

No doubt from a politically oriented person's perspective, asking for a mega thread on how the right damages society would be like asking for a mega-thread on why the sky is blue lol. But we need some help clarifying exactly how the right damages society. 

@Sugarcoat I found this so far

 

 

Neither you nor the guy in the video make any argument; it's just childish adhominem.

Right wing doesn't mean anything btw it's a very broad ideological field.

I'm interested in Marxism, but just for the left's position on immigration and security, I would probably never vote for them.

Edited September 13 by Schizophonia

[sholomar]

The problem isn't "right wing" as much as it is any large group that brainwashes people with dogma. The shooter here went into college and got all that "right wingers are fascist" dogma thrown at him by the professors and got radicalized.  After watching the wife speak however I got the sense she was cult indoctrinated herself and the last thing we need is some right wing religious cult getting significant power.   If you want to unite people, you can't keep attacking them and portraying them as fascists and preaching about democracy while at the same time claiming the other side is dangerous and shouldn't have a voice.   

Most normal people aren't into "movements" and are good people by nature (as good as they can be given our genetic makeup.)  It tends to be activists who are varying degrees of mentally damaged, which is contrary to what they'd like you to think when they talk about the "sheep" not knowing the "so called" truth about whatever so called truth this "truth seeker" thinks they know. Best thing the average person can do is live by example, live a good life, and avoid social media, politics, and various "movements" and "causes" designed to impose morality on people's behavior, whether it's loony left or loony right. 

Edited September 13 by sholomar

[Aaron p]

I pretty much grasp that both sides are dumb, but we need to pass through the progressive stupidity of the left to eventually get to the point where everyone isn't dumb. 

I also think that when it comes to identifying the difficulties of the right it's sometimes best to just rely on intuitive observations. Like basic stuff. All you have to do is look at a lot of trump supporters...they aren't emotionally intelligent, they aren't rigorous thinkers and lots of them are racist and homophobic. And the ones who have done their homework are often very deluded or headstrong with little emphasis on compassion. Right are usually religious ideologues too. At the most basic level it's purely about selfishness Vs selflessness.

Even if you look at communist countries, they manipulate and coerce to maintain power. I know for a fact that if trump could, he would organise assassinations of his own, anything to keep power. 

The right is basically a political amalgamation of these kinds of people. So the question, perhaps, should be how do these people cause damage. Because they are specific, individualised incarnations of the right. 

 

Religious ideologues - cause damage by indoctrinating people into cults of group think, often leading to people pretending to be better with fake spiritual methods resulting in churches just being dens of broken people with hidden trauma.

Unintelligent people - cause damage because they do things that they think will help society but won't. Like raising children in a protective bubble which only results in a rougher landing when the rubber meets the road in the real world. (Religious people do this too). And generally being abusive because they don't know how to process their own pain.

Racists - cause damage by undermining peoples humanity because of their skin. Same with homophobes.

 

Generally I see a lack of conscious awareness and resulting patterns of abuse. Abuse of people, abuse of power. Intentional and unintentional. 

[Aaron p]

Ai

- Antivaxers 

- alcoholics 

- headstrong knowledge absolutists, claimants of intellectual monopoly on reality. Believing reality is understood. Rejection of metaphysics. Narrow minded.

- people who hold to detrimental rights like gun rights. 

- people who prioritise who can speak first and the loudest in conversations over making actual compelling arguments.

- people who demonise, judge and have a strong sense of self and other (selfishness). Heavy handed individuals. 

- imperialists, power hunger, dominating opponents with force. 

Edited September 14 by Aaron p

[Aaron p]

.

Edited September 14 by Aaron p

[Aaron p]

@Leo Gura can you give us some reference points or resources. Do the political books in the booklist cover this? 

Edited September 18 by Aaron p

[Spiral]

Going around pointing fingers isn’t helping anyone

[Aaron p]

Here's some more points I found @Sugarcoat

 

- trump falsely accused Zelenskiy of being a dictator who only wants to prolong the "gravy train" of US financial support. This likely comes from trump's America first ideology that focuses on centralising power in the US. Ironically he accused Zelenskiy of being a money grabbing dictator because he just wanted to keep the money for America and let Ukraine die. Trump himself displays characteristics of becoming a dictator himself.

 

- trump sympathises with Putin calling him "genius" when he Invaded Ukraine. He probably believes Russia is more powerful and thus is safer to befriend. It's possible that trump thinks that by publicly respecting Putin (openly saying he respects him after saying he's a "killer" because basically nobody's perfect) he thinks he can manipulate Putin or ease a nuclear power. In reality this encourages corrupt dictators to take power, seeing they will be respected only when they are corrupt and powerful. It also harms ally relations and publicly promotes the support of literal corruption.

 

- trump coin and the ways it's manipulated to bring wealth to the trumps.

 

- trump spreads distrust in media outlets and divides the USA even more. Of course the media has its own corruption but instead of tackling it democratically with valid points, it seems he just uses his presidential position to discredit anyone who disagrees with him including judges, police and media etc. This spreads uncertainty, confusion and division.

 

- indirect racism. A lot of his policies will be indirectly racist, harming ethnic minorities the most. Thins like canceling or cutting funds to low income housing help financial systems and medical benefit systems. 

 

- he insulted Serge F. Kovaleski, a disabled reporter, In November 2015, at a rally in South Carolina. He mimicked the reporters bodily language which was physically disabled and said “Poor guy … you’ve got to see this guy … I don’t remember what I said …” 

 

- In 2020, Trump criticised certain housing policies (Obama administration rules about fair housing) and said that “low-income housing” and minorities moving into suburbs were “ruining this American dream for everybody.”

 

- according to some reporters trump wants to move a luxury Boeing 747-8 jet (valued at roughly US$400 million that was gifted to the US gov to serve as air force one) into his own private library after his presidency concludes.

 

- trump admin forced children and their parents to be separated for prolonged periods. In 2018, the Trump administration implemented the “zero tolerance” policy — prosecuting all adults who crossed the border illegally. Since children couldn’t be held in federal jails, thousands were placed in government shelters while parents were prosecuted.

Scale: Roughly 5,500–5,800 children were separated from their parents between 2017–2018. Trump eventually then forcibly retracted the blanket separation after a backlash.

_______________________________________________

Each of these points appear to cause far more collateral damage in the periphery because it's basically just straight corruption and racism designed to give him and other upper class Americans more money while segregating less powerful or non-caucasian individuals into an "other" category. Each point extends far into the fabric of society and seem to cause many other secondary, tertiary, etc, problems. Primarily about getting more money for rich people and not "ruining the American dream" by helping less fortunate people.

 

Bonus note:

psychological evolution = political evolution 

This points to the impracticality of the standard political compass. A lot of confusion comes from terms like "social democrat" and "democratic socialist" which means two completely different things. 

Because political evolution is inexorably intertwined with psychological evolution, arguably a better (perhaps streamlined) model to use is spiral dynamics. Much more linear and simplified. Which easily harmonises with itself with simple extra additive understandings, like a person can be more than one colour and in different areas. I might even go as far to say that all of politics may be understandable through the lense of psychology. Almost like politics is psychology, realised.

and that it can be dangerous to express opposing beliefs about a stage blue political authoritarian president in risk of being cancelled...

Edited September 18 by Aaron p

[Sugarcoat]

17 hours ago, Aaron p said:

Here's some more points I found @Sugarcoat

 

- trump falsely accused Zelenskiy of being a dictator who only wants to prolong the "gravy train" of US financial support. This likely comes from trump's America first ideology that focuses on centralising power in the US. Ironically he accused Zelenskiy of being a money grabbing dictator because he just wanted to keep the money for America and let Ukraine die. Trump himself displays characteristics of becoming a dictator himself.

 

- trump sympathises with Putin calling him "genius" when he Invaded Ukraine. He probably believes Russia is more powerful and thus is safer to befriend. It's possible that trump thinks that by publicly respecting Putin (openly saying he respects him after saying he's a "killer" because basically nobody's perfect) he thinks he can manipulate Putin or ease a nuclear power. In reality this encourages corrupt dictators to take power, seeing they will be respected only when they are corrupt and powerful. It also harms ally relations and publicly promotes the support of literal corruption.

 

- trump coin and the ways it's manipulated to bring wealth to the trumps.

 

- trump spreads distrust in media outlets and divides the USA even more. Of course the media has its own corruption but instead of tackling it democratically with valid points, it seems he just uses his presidential position to discredit anyone who disagrees with him including judges, police and media etc. This spreads uncertainty, confusion and division.

 

- indirect racism. A lot of his policies will be indirectly racist, harming ethnic minorities the most. Thins like canceling or cutting funds to low income housing help financial systems and medical benefit systems. 

 

- he insulted Serge F. Kovaleski, a disabled reporter, In November 2015, at a rally in South Carolina. He mimicked the reporters bodily language which was physically disabled and said “Poor guy … you’ve got to see this guy … I don’t remember what I said …” 

 

- In 2020, Trump criticised certain housing policies (Obama administration rules about fair housing) and said that “low-income housing” and minorities moving into suburbs were “ruining this American dream for everybody.”

 

- according to some reporters trump wants to move a luxury Boeing 747-8 jet (valued at roughly US$400 million that was gifted to the US gov to serve as air force one) into his own private library after his presidency concludes.

 

- trump admin forced children and their parents to be separated for prolonged periods. In 2018, the Trump administration implemented the “zero tolerance” policy — prosecuting all adults who crossed the border illegally. Since children couldn’t be held in federal jails, thousands were placed in government shelters while parents were prosecuted.

Scale: Roughly 5,500–5,800 children were separated from their parents between 2017–2018. Trump eventually then forcibly retracted the blanket separation after a backlash.

_______________________________________________

Each of these points appear to cause far more collateral damage in the periphery because it's basically just straight corruption and racism designed to give him and other upper class Americans more money while segregating less powerful or non-caucasian individuals into an "other" category. Each point extends far into the fabric of society and seem to cause many other secondary, tertiary, etc, problems. Primarily about getting more money for rich people and not "ruining the American dream" by helping less fortunate people.

 

Bonus note:

psychological evolution = political evolution 

This points to the impracticality of the standard political compass. A lot of confusion comes from terms like "social democrat" and "democratic socialist" which means two completely different things. 

Because political evolution is inexorably intertwined with psychological evolution, arguably a better (perhaps streamlined) model to use is spiral dynamics. Much more linear and simplified. Which easily harmonises with itself with simple extra additive understandings, like a person can be more than one colour and in different areas. I might even go as far to say that all of politics may be understandable through the lense of psychology. Almost like politics is psychology, realised.

and that it can be dangerous to express opposing beliefs about a stage blue political authoritarian president in risk of being cancelled...

👍🏻

I think as we develop psychologically our political stance evolves. So it translates to the other. Psychological development should be the main focus I think, as it’s more fundamental

[Aaron p]

This is obviously a bit click baity and dumb, but kinda true. The UK has one of the highest rates of mental illness in the world. I really feel for the youth. I myself was indoctrinated into unspoken, subconscious, white, Christian privilege nationalism. I voted to leave Brexit because it's what my family voted for. I can first hand speak, that right wing youths have no idea what the fuck is going on. They're just being manipulated