Why politics sucks

[Nivsch]

12 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

they just want their worldview validated

But their worldview is what they believe as the good and the right thing

Edited August 31 by Nivsch

[Leo Gura]

20 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

But their worldview is what they believe as the good and the right thing

No need for a but there.

Satan believes his view is the good and right thing.

Edited August 31 by Leo Gura

[Nivsch]

11 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

No need for a but there.

Satan believes his view is the good and right thing.

I mean that they think they do good for their group/country/world.

For example Trump and Netanyahu are super selfish but they still act upon their belief they are here to make their country better.

[Leo Gura]

@Nivsch Of course. So what?

[Nivsch]

@Leo Gura

Becuase at the beginning you wrote they don't care about society, so my point is that I think this shows they do care about society - not only about themselves - but only if done in their own way.

If I imagine myself become the prime minister in the center-left democratic sector, I would also want my way to win, yet I would still genuinely want society to be better.

I think many politicians, especially in the more developed sectors, want both things, so I see politics, and maybe every field in life, as not purely about selfishness, but rather a mix between lower and higher self do an arm wrestling.

Edited August 31 by Nivsch

[Carl-Richard]

2 hours ago, Nivsch said:

@Leo Gura

Becuase at the beginning you wrote they don't care about society, so my point is that I think this shows they do care about society - not only about themselves - but only if done in their own way.

If I imagine myself become the prime minister in the center-left democratic sector, I would also want my way to win, yet I would still genuinely want society to be better.

I think many politicians, especially in the more developed sectors, want both things, so I see politics, and maybe every field in life, as not purely about selfishness, but rather a mix between lower and higher self do an arm wrestling.

So which is better: wealth tax or no wealth tax?

[Hardkill]

1 hour ago, Carl-Richard said:

So which is better: wealth tax or no wealth tax?

A wealth tax of some kind is always essential. 

It makes the economy healthier and more productive because more people, more businesses, and more areas of government are able to spend more money on necessary goods and services for the betterment of the country.

[Carl-Richard]

21 minutes ago, Hardkill said:

A wealth tax of some kind is always essential. 

It makes the economy healthier and more productive because more people, more businesses, and more areas of government are able to spend more money on necessary goods and services for the betterment of the country.

The argument the Righties in Norway use for eliminating the wealth tax is that all the big business owners move to Switzerland so they avoid wealth tax anyway (except now there is also an exit tax), and that it makes investing in Norwegian businesses less profitable compared to other countries for international actors, and that over time, big businesses generally pull out of the country so that there will be thousands of fewer jobs.

Edited September 1 by Carl-Richard

[Elliott]

49 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

The argument the Righties in Norway use for eliminating the wealth tax is that all the big business owners move to Switzerland so they avoid wealth tax anyway (except now there is also an exit tax), and that it makes investing in Norwegian businesses less profitable compared to other countries for international actors, and that over time, big businesses generally pull out of the country so that there will be thousands of fewer jobs.

So, more business opportunity for people that actually value your country, and less parasitic companies. Switzerland from my understanding is not a cheap wage country, either.

[Carl-Richard]

1 hour ago, Elliott said:

So, more business opportunity for people that actually value your country, and less parasitic companies.

Who cares about that when it means less businesses and less jobs, etc.?

[Elliott]

16 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Who cares about that when it means less businesses and less jobs, etc.?

It doesn't mean less jobs. Other businesses will create other jobs, new businesses will be created. You think everyone will just give up and fold their hands, no, they'll do something else.

It's not a zero sum gain.

Edited September 1 by Elliott

[Carl-Richard]

2 minutes ago, Elliott said:

It doesn't mean less jobs. Other businesses will create other jobs, new businesses will be created. You think everyone will just give up and fold their hands, no, they'll do something else.

It's not a zero sum gain.

Uh, yes? Can other businesses just hire new people endlessly, and do big businesses just spawn out of nowhere?

[Carl-Richard]

Cmon, nazis (exaggerating) are taking over my country and none of you have any good arguments against them? 🙉

[Elliott]

2 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

Uh, yes? Can other businesses just hire new people endlessly, and do big businesses just spawn out of nowhere?

Business is in part based on the labor market, when the market sees more labor available, it uses it. Other big businesses that stay will expand, smaller businesses will expand to be bigger businesses.

How can everyone move their business to tiny Switzerland, and then still be profitable. It's a hysterically stupid narrative, are you incapable of thinking beyond a single variable? They have no more workers for any new businesses as it is. You move a business to where you can't find workers?

"Switzerland's non-seasonally adjusted unemployment rate was 2.7% in July 2025, matching the rate from the previous month. This figure is one of the lowest in Europe and remains low by international standards"

This has been proven over and over again, the fear mongering has been proven false over and over again.

It's not a zero sum gain. There's more than one variable, this isn't checkers. You're treating the real world as if it must be contained within a basic addition or subtraction equation.

Edited September 1 by Elliott

[Peo]

10 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

So which is better: wealth tax or no wealth tax?

I believe tax wealth is better, but only if they have a lot of wealth. People with less wealth should pay less tex and rich people should pay more. 

[Carl-Richard]

9 hours ago, Elliott said:

Business is in part based on the labor market, when the market sees more labor available, it uses it.

You either don't because you can't afford it, or you do by lowering wages.

 

9 hours ago, Elliott said:

Other big businesses that stay will expand, smaller businesses will expand to be bigger businesses.

It doesn't matter if the rate they expand at is slower than the rate businesses leave at. And the more they expand, the more profitable it becomes leaving the country.

 

9 hours ago, Elliott said:

How can everyone move their business to tiny Switzerland, and then still be profitable. It's a hysterically stupid narrative, are you incapable of thinking beyond a single variable? They have no more workers for any new businesses as it is. You move a business to where you can't find workers?

"Switzerland's non-seasonally adjusted unemployment rate was 2.7% in July 2025, matching the rate from the previous month. This figure is one of the lowest in Europe and remains low by international standards"

They could move the business to other countries. Switzerland is just often mentioned because the owners tend to move their residency there to avoid the wealth tax but keep their business where it's at.

 

9 hours ago, Elliott said:

This has been proven over and over again, the fear mongering has been proven false over and over again.

It's not a zero sum gain. There's more than one variable, this isn't checkers. You're treating the real world as if it must be contained within a basic addition or subtraction equation.

I'm just playing devil's advocate.

Edited September 1 by Carl-Richard

[Carl-Richard]

5 hours ago, Peo said:

I believe tax wealth is better, but only if they have a lot of wealth. People with less wealth should pay less tex and rich people should pay more. 

But you're not making an argument for why that's better.

[Elliott]

43 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

You either don't because you can't afford it, or you do by lowering wages. 

False, again you're using zero sum. There's only a limited number of people, businesses that want to hire and can afford to, don't, when people for the job are not available.

 

Quote

They could move the business to other countries. Switzerland is just often mentioned because the owners tend to move their residency there to avoid the wealth tax but keep their business where it's at.

What countries have the labor available and skilled in Norwegian industries? Few, and little labor room for many businesses from Norway.

Edited September 1 by Elliott

[Elliott]

There are certain industries that easily offshore, low-skill manufacturing, low-skill software, and low-skill telecommunications services, not Norway's niche as far as I'm aware. I don't believe Norway is going to ship oil jobs to China, if the companies did, then a new company would take over in Norway. 

Wealth tax is on income, meaning they only pay if they're making money, meaning someone will step into the vacuum to make that money if some parasite wants to move business elsewhere.

Government spending done correctly, boosts the economy, boosting local businesses. If there isn't some need for tax revenue in Norway, then who would support taxes? No one supports taxes for the sake of taxes.

Edited September 1 by Elliott

[Carl-Richard]

1 hour ago, Elliott said:

False, again you're using zero sum. There's only a limited number of people, businesses that want to hire and can afford to, don't, when people for the job are not available.

Business demand for workers is not infinite, and even if they can scale up operations, that takes time, and that means workers are stuck without a job for some time, which is time they could've spent working, which leads to state expenditures.