BlessedLion

Psychedelics and Spirituality

24 posts in this topic

I’m curious to your thoughts on using psychedelics in the path. To some it seems like catalyst, to others a huge delusion and distraction/addiction (Aubrey Marcus comes to mind) 

 

What hangs me up is that they can never permanently change your state or keep you awakened. They also seem aggressive on your nervous system. And come with high risk. 
 

Many great teachers - Ramana , Wilber, Yogananda, Sahajananda, Ralston, Igor, Rupert, Adyashanti who live in awakened states of consciousness never recommend psychedelics. 
 

My take is that they are helpful to open the mind and show what’s possible, but like Alan Watts says hang up the phone once you got it 


Lions Heart is my YouTube Channel- Syncing Masculinity and Consciousness

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Posted (edited)

One thing is to recognize the potential value of these drugs; another is to believe they can increase consciousness. What most people mean by that is cognition or mind state, but they've likely been conditioned to think otherwise ("consciousness-raising" drugs) - confusing a radical state change with things like awakening. If there were a pill to enlightenment, everyone who took it - or at least the majority - would already know their nature. But we see they don't, regardless of their use of substances.

Still, is awakening a state? After all, alcohol changes your state too, as do fasting and meditation. You could just as well hit your head on the bathroom counter and call it enlightening. Does that imply you've become conscious of something? Not really. One might feel more sensitive, open, calm, or aware, though. And insight may well be facilitated that way. 

That said, circumstances are secondary when it comes to direct experience. Most of the time it's all too easy to get lost in subjective mind states - usually shaped or triggered by one's beliefs, expectations, and desires, and the drugs can exacerbate that aspect, too.

Edited by UnbornTao

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Interesting topic. Will be boring answer, but I think it depends on a lot of context (haha see what I did here? The reference to the mega context thread :P)

Kind of psychedelic, individual, period of life, other activities, integration, etc. I got vastly different results from different and/or same psychedelic in different times of my life. 

I agree that the MOST OF the effect of peak experiences of psychedelics seem to fade fast afterwards. Points to the catalyst function. Meditation effects seem to stick more. 

@UnbornTao Happy that finally someone else than me mentions fasting! It's can be crazy for me re state changes. But it did not "awaken" me like e.g. Vipassana meditation did. 

I also like that Alan Watts quote, but then it depends on your intention. You can take psychedelics to improve your life quality, connects to emotions, release trauma, regulate your nervous system etc etc. It's not always everything about awakening (which seems to a degree to be an individualized experience anyway)

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Posted (edited)

On 8/26/2025 at 8:46 AM, theleelajoker said:

Kind of psychedelic, individual, period of life, other activities, integration, etc. I got vastly different results from different and/or same psychedelic in different times of my life. 

I agree that the MOST OF the effect of peak experiences of psychedelics seem to fade fast afterwards. Points to the catalyst function. Meditation effects seem to stick more. 

@UnbornTao Happy that finally someone else than me mentions fasting! It's can be crazy for me re state changes. But it did not "awaken" me like e.g. Vipassana meditation did. 

I also like that Alan Watts quote, but then it depends on your intention. You can take psychedelics to improve your life quality, connects to emotions, release trauma, regulate your nervous system etc etc. It's not always everything about awakening (which seems to a degree to be an individualized experience anyway)

Oh yeah, I just equated spirituality exclusively with awakening here due to OP's framing. Psychedelics can definitely help with those things, and they can also facilitate insight into the relative domain - enhancing awareness, sensitivity, learning, and so on - but those are about you: healing yourself and improving your experience in some way. What is true, on the other hand, is independent of you. They can't produce an experience of the absolute, just as drinking coffee within a dream won't wake you up from it. Every method is confined to the dream, as if - this is just a metaphor. I wish there were a pill that one could just take and get enlightened as a result, but there isn't. Enlightenment is neither an effect nor a result, and it is neither perceived nor experienced.

Edited by UnbornTao

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3 hours ago, UnbornTao said:

Oh yeah, I just equated spirituality exclusively with awakening here due to OP's framing. Psychedelics can definitely help with those things, and they can also facilitate insight into the relative domain - enhancing awareness, sensitivity, learning, and so on - but those are about you: healing yourself and improving your experience in some way. What is true, on the other hand, is independent of you. They can't produce an experience of the absolute, just as drinking coffee within a dream won't wake you up from it. Every method is confined to the dream, as if - this is just a metaphor. I wish there were a pill that one could just take and get enlightened as a result, but there isn't.

Get ya.

Still wait to see an enlightened person in real life. Until I experience this, enlightenment a myth to me. Happy to be proven wrong : ) 

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3 hours ago, theleelajoker said:

Get ya.

Still wait to see an enlightened person in real life. Until I experience this, enlightenment a myth to me. Happy to be proven wrong : ) 

That's sensible, although you can also read others' accounts, at least to seed in your mind the possibility - for example, Ramana. But hey, you can pursue it yourself too, this is what will make a difference in the end. 

Edited by UnbornTao

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I almost never saw anybody progress with psychedelics.

I can have good ideas under psychedelics, but it requires a lot of thought and planning before and after the trip.
So for most people, just doing whatever they want during the trip will be useless, just a roller coaster.
Then, it's cool to ride a roller coaster. I'm not against having fun/experiencing things, but it's still a roller coaster.
People who say psychedelics change lives, are more effective than therapy, lol, are essentially neurotic and need excuses to take psychedelics, like those who used to say they play to "software" instead of video games when it was still a bit taboo, lol.

Edited by Schizophonia

Nothing will prevent Willy.

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3 hours ago, Schizophonia said:

I almost never saw anybody progress with psychedelics.

I can have good ideas under psychedelics, but it requires a lot of thought and planning before and after the trip.
So for most people, just doing whatever they want during the trip will be useless, just a roller coaster.
Then, it's cool to ride a roller coaster. I'm not against having fun/experiencing things, but it's still a roller coaster.
People who say psychedelics change lives, are more effective than therapy, lol, are essentially neurotic and need excuses to take psychedelics, like those who used to say they play to "software" instead of video games when it was still a bit taboo, lol.

Had a GF that took a lot of stuff and nothing really changed. When high, she understood everything but never put it into practice. It was a bit like you say, excuse to take them. For some time, I have seen things like you. But with more experience (life experience + own experience with psychedelics) I say it's too black and white the way you frame it.

Read studies on MDMA and mushrooms for instance, they are getting more popular in Europe and show results in different dimensions (trauma, depression, spiritual experiences, but also rewiring of brain) 

It's not a "solve everything now pill", many many variables play a role, but there is some effect. IME, it can be a powerful part of a system where you work on different levels (body, mind, job, social environment etc). 

Are there people that use it in just a "rollercoaster way"? For sure.

Did psychedelics change my life (tremendously)? For sure. 

Did I use psychedelics but still some behavioral patterns are unchanged even if I desire otherwise? For sure. 

Are some mushrooms sessions equally (or even more) effective as therapy for me? For sure. 

Look for PAT for instance https://www.abct.org/fact-sheets/psychedelic-assisted-therapy/

 

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Interesting takes. 
 

I’ve heard some yogis say that they can wreck the subtle bodies and cause massive setbacks on the path to a natural and stabilized consciousness (it’s not that you have no idea but can easily tap into your true nature) 

 

They do have benefit too but I think if your serious about stabilizing your consciousness you need to do it bucket by bucket (meditation, contemplation, yoga)


Lions Heart is my YouTube Channel- Syncing Masculinity and Consciousness

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Psychedelics can open the flood gates of consciousness and mind. My position is this. You must already be doing spiritual work, consciousness work, heavy existential contemplation, already doing advanced nuanced personal development and self actualization. Have a healthy eating habit, already moving towards your life purpose. Know what your values and passions are. Lots of study and theoretical knowledge as a foundation. Deep study of epistemology and a deep thirst for spiritual Transcendence are keys for making the most of your trips. Also understanding beforehand that these trips don't last and to not mistake these for permanent transformation or consciousness. 

You must know to continue your integration after our journey and to continue doing the daily grind, bringing the transcendental back into the relative. Also you must study self deception and how the ego deludes and conflates these experiences. Basically study Leo Gura, Ramana, Alan Watts really good before you do them and to be aware of mind projecting these people's ideas onto your trip.

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22 hours ago, ExploringReality said:

Psychedelics can open the flood gates of consciousness and mind. My position is this. You must already be doing spiritual work, consciousness work, heavy existential contemplation, already doing advanced nuanced personal development and self actualization. Have a healthy eating habit, already moving towards your life purpose. Know what your values and passions are. Lots of study and theoretical knowledge as a foundation. Deep study of epistemology and a deep thirst for spiritual Transcendence are keys for making the most of your trips. Also understanding beforehand that these trips don't last and to not mistake these for permanent transformation or consciousness. 

You must know to continue your integration after our journey and to continue doing the daily grind, bringing the transcendental back into the relative. Also you must study self deception and how the ego deludes and conflates these experiences. Basically study Leo Gura, Ramana, Alan Watts really good before you do them and to be aware of mind projecting these people's ideas onto your trip.

Yeah I think that’s a solid grasp on them. I feel like 99% of people using psychedelics aren’t nearly close to that level of work and seriousness. 
 

I sometimes wonder if it sets you back though, like if you’re trying to stabilize a permanent shift in awareness- state change- I sometimes feel like psychedelics mess with that process. I’ve heard some teachers talk about that and it makes sense to me 


Lions Heart is my YouTube Channel- Syncing Masculinity and Consciousness

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3 hours ago, BlessedLion said:

I sometimes wonder if it sets you back though, like if you’re trying to stabilize a permanent shift in awareness- state change- I sometimes feel like psychedelics mess with that process. I’ve heard some teachers talk about that and it makes sense to me 

Appreciate you. You know, that's an interesting question. I don't have an answer for that. One thing I have noticed after not taking psychedelics for over five years, is I can get state complacent. Like the fire of my spiritual thirst is a bit low. Since there is so much to integrate as well, there can be a stabilization period, or a plateau.

But this path is a life long journey, so there will be little and big intervals, phases and changes but I wouldn't worry to much if psychedelics hinder our spiritual progression and consciousness awakenings unless self validated or confirmed otherwise bro 

Edited by ExploringReality

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On 8/27/2025 at 4:13 AM, ExploringReality said:

Psychedelics can open the flood gates of consciousness and mind. My position is this. You must already be doing spiritual work, consciousness work, heavy existential contemplation, already doing advanced nuanced personal development and self actualization. Have a healthy eating habit, already moving towards your life purpose. Know what your values and passions are. Lots of study and theoretical knowledge as a foundation. Deep study of epistemology and a deep thirst for spiritual Transcendence are keys for making the most of your trips. Also understanding beforehand that these trips don't last and to not mistake these for permanent transformation or consciousness. 

You must know to continue your integration after our journey and to continue doing the daily grind, bringing the transcendental back into the relative. Also you must study self deception and how the ego deludes and conflates these experiences. Basically study Leo Gura, Ramana, Alan Watts really good before you do them and to be aware of mind projecting these people's ideas onto your trip.

@ExploringReality

Wow man, that's a lot of "must". A lot of "work". A lot of "grind" etc. Lots of things of "need to have". Lots of "must know"

Not a single word of "fun", "lightness", "joy". 

Important: I am not saying it's all roses and flowers. I had my hard times, and they will likely come back, and it will feel like a grind again. So please get me right here...but hey, at least some balance is nice, right? :) 

What happens if you drop all the "must", "need to", all the "grinds"? Maybe these things are not necessary as before, or much much less?

And Alan Watts...love this guy, but he's not about hard work. IME he's about lightness, fun, play, getting out of your own way. 

And Leo...so a guy building a business, and a life purpose about hard work and grind and intellect and understanding etc makes a point that this is what it is about...so yeah, not a surprise. 

I guess it's a bit self-fulfilling prophecy, life is to a certain degree what you project it to be. 

12 hours ago, BlessedLion said:

I sometimes wonder if it sets you back though, like if you’re trying to stabilize a permanent shift in awareness- state change- I sometimes feel like psychedelics mess with that process. I’ve heard some teachers talk about that and it makes sense to me 

I guess it's individual. Have seen what you described (setting back), have experiences the exact opposite (stabilizing me tremendously).

What teacher is saying that? What is his life story? His values? His fears? Are his views just his projection towards life, so that he feel better himself? How well do I know him PERSONALLY and not just a video or stories? What makes me trust his authority? What things I have in common with him, what is different? What are his motives saying this? What part of me is reflected in this teacher? Are this views giving false security about reality, or is there direct experience  of me supporting this? Did my direct experience change in similar situations? What makes me think, that it can be generalized at all? What other assumptions do I make? How much does my believe influence my actions and consequences (placebo effect e.g.)?

I guess it's more "listen to yourself right now" instead of coming up with generalized rules. Admittedly, I also do that sometimes (for instance recently I asked in this forum re mushrooms and time between trips), and it helps to have somewhat of a map with these things. But as best as I can, these concepts are one part of my decision making process, the other part is listening inside. 

Edited by theleelajoker

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@theleelajoker it's easy to conflate what I said from a certain point of view. I never said spirituality had to be this grueling path of hard work and chores, that was your conclusion out of what I wrote. Don't bullshit yourself, real work is real work and once you get disciplined and take action and do the things your ego mind tries to avoid, then you can let loose and have a bit of fun. It's like boxing, you master the fundamentals and then you can dance in the ring. You don't want to learn all the fancy footwork and dances because you'll get your head popped back and your ass handed to you real quick from a lack of balance, discipline and hard work. 

Edited by ExploringReality

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What are you specifically interested in, when you say 'in the path'?

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14 hours ago, ExploringReality said:

@theleelajoker it's easy to conflate what I said from a certain point of view. I never said spirituality had to be this grueling path of hard work and chores, that was your conclusion out of what I wrote. Don't bullshit yourself, real work is real work and once you get disciplined and take action and do the things your ego mind tries to avoid, then you can let loose and have a bit of fun. It's like boxing, you master the fundamentals and then you can dance in the ring. You don't want to learn all the fancy footwork and dances because you'll get your head popped back and your ass handed to you real quick from a lack of balance, discipline and hard work. 

Exactly my point. Maybe it does not need to be like "real work first before you can have fun". 

But I can see I am wasting my time here

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I use gummies on the weekends to relax, it makes time slow down and a certain sort of disassociation happens, I become lazy, hungry and more focused lol.

My research into it tells me the Psychedelics have their time and place in usage, if You rely on them totally for Spiritual Awakening it probably won't work, Leo may be the exception but he has also done lots of Sadhana too to supplement it.. I for sure agree, that one should do the Sadhana first, get to a point of Awareness that already brings about a natural sort of Peace and Knowing, if Your stuck there then maybe use psychedelics to give You a peek over the fence, which basically inspires You in your Sadhana practices, but don't rely on them totally, it will more than likely lead You astray...

In the end for real Transformation to happen, You have to make it happen naturally meaning without the use of drugs or anything external other than Spiritual Practices.. Find a Guru or Mentor and practice that works for You, stick with it, know Your intentions and goals then let it work its magic!


Karma Means "Life is my Making", I am 100% responsible for my Inner Experience. -Sadhguru..."I don''t want Your Dreams to come True, I want something to come true for You beyond anything You could dream of!!" - Sadhguru

 

 

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On 8/27/2025 at 10:13 PM, ExploringReality said:

Appreciate you. You know, that's an interesting question. I don't have an answer for that. One thing I have noticed after not taking psychedelics for over five years, is I can get state complacent. Like the fire of my spiritual thirst is a bit low. Since there is so much to integrate as well, there can be a stabilization period, or a plateau.

But this path is a life long journey, so there will be little and big intervals, phases and changes but I wouldn't worry to much if psychedelics hinder our spiritual progression and consciousness awakenings unless self validated or confirmed otherwise bro 

I’ve noticed that as well! Yeah man for sure, I think if you’re committed and doing the work from all angles you’re good. Especially if you have that vision of a life long journey, everyone has their path


Lions Heart is my YouTube Channel- Syncing Masculinity and Consciousness

Lions Heart YouTube

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On 8/28/2025 at 7:00 AM, theleelajoker said:

@ExploringReality

Wow man, that's a lot of "must". A lot of "work". A lot of "grind" etc. Lots of things of "need to have". Lots of "must know"

Not a single word of "fun", "lightness", "joy". 

Important: I am not saying it's all roses and flowers. I had my hard times, and they will likely come back, and it will feel like a grind again. So please get me right here...but hey, at least some balance is nice, right? :) 

What happens if you drop all the "must", "need to", all the "grinds"? Maybe these things are not necessary as before, or much much less?

And Alan Watts...love this guy, but he's not about hard work. IME he's about lightness, fun, play, getting out of your own way. 

And Leo...so a guy building a business, and a life purpose about hard work and grind and intellect and understanding etc makes a point that this is what it is about...so yeah, not a surprise. 

I guess it's a bit self-fulfilling prophecy, life is to a certain degree what you project it to be. 

I guess it's individual. Have seen what you described (setting back), have experiences the exact opposite (stabilizing me tremendously).

What teacher is saying that? What is his life story? His values? His fears? Are his views just his projection towards life, so that he feel better himself? How well do I know him PERSONALLY and not just a video or stories? What makes me trust his authority? What things I have in common with him, what is different? What are his motives saying this? What part of me is reflected in this teacher? Are this views giving false security about reality, or is there direct experience  of me supporting this? Did my direct experience change in similar situations? What makes me think, that it can be generalized at all? What other assumptions do I make? How much does my believe influence my actions and consequences (placebo effect e.g.)?

I guess it's more "listen to yourself right now" instead of coming up with generalized rules. Admittedly, I also do that sometimes (for instance recently I asked in this forum re mushrooms and time between trips), and it helps to have somewhat of a map with these things. But as best as I can, these concepts are one part of my decision making process, the other part is listening inside. 

I think it def gets fun after you break all your habits, delusions, and addictions which can be quite painful and require grinding. Or else everyone would be awakened and happy which is not the case. But I see your point. It’s a balancing act but it does get to a point (at least IME) where the disciplines become fun in themselves they are no longer a grind. 
 

I also agree it’s highly subjective and one must listen to themselves. I’ve gotten the clear message/warning to drop psychedelics and it’s working great for me. I have no desire to go back 


Lions Heart is my YouTube Channel- Syncing Masculinity and Consciousness

Lions Heart YouTube

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