Happiness (not suffering) Is The Real Enemy

[UnbornTao]

But what are they?

[Princess Arabia]

27 minutes ago, pablo_aka_god said:

Are you saying the reason I can't connect with women even when I have manny men friends is because I see them as the enemy because they are the gate keepers of my happiness(ie: sex)? 

Makes no sense at all (sarcasm)

What I'm saying in that regard is, on an intimate/sexual level, the gender we seek is the one capable of hurting us; so, since happiness is what we seek, it is capable of hurting us and in this context the hurt is in it's absence. If you're straight, can a man break your heart, no. You're heartbroken because you don't feel loved. You don't see women as the enemy but men are automatically excluded from being the enemy in this way. You don't see happiness as the enemy but suffering is automatically excluded because it's not saught after. Same thing, women are saught after by you and men aren't so men can't be your enemy in this sense. It's like a reverse psychology kind of a thing.

[Princess Arabia]

13 hours ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

It is desire in both directions isn't it?

Desire to NOT suffer.

Desire for happiness.

Happiness seeking generates its own suffering. We generate the lack within ourselves 'I do NOT have this thing, I must get it' You create the void inside.

I think there is some saying about desire/craving somewhere in my pockets

Yes, but most desire happiness, not to "not suffer". Most are telling people how to be happy not how to not suffer, even though both are pretty much the same thing but there's a subtle difference and that's what the post is pointing to. How suffering is there but happiness is being chased and that makes it more of the enemy than suffering because it's what's driving the suffering, the lack of happiness. 

[theleelajoker]

23 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

What I'm saying in that regard is, on an intimate/sexual level, the gender we seek is the one capable of hurting us; so, since happiness is what we seek, it is capable of hurting us and in this context the hurt is in it's absence. If you're straight, can a man break your heart, no. You're heartbroken because you don't feel loved. You don't see women as the enemy but men are automatically excluded from being the enemy in this way. You don't see happiness as the enemy but suffering is automatically excluded because it's not saught after. Same thing, women are saught after by you and men aren't so men can't be your enemy in this sense. It's like a reverse psychology kind of a thing.

Maybe I should try that bi-sexual thing, then all problems solved right? 

[Princess Arabia]

3 minutes ago, theleelajoker said:

Maybe I should try that bi-sexual thing, then all problems solved right? 

It doubles the chances. Now you've got both genders capable of hurting you. Can't escape. Desire can be painful.

[Princess Arabia]

Here's a video that points to what I'm trying to say.

[Someone here]

Here's a meta point..anytime you side with one side of any duality be sure you got it wrong or at least incomplete. Because existence includes both yin and yang. You can't even know what happiness is without suffering and vice versa . Another example is consciousness vs unconsciousness or you can say existence vs non existence.  The only reason you think what's happening right now is consciousness or existence is because you go to sleep and lose consciousness. If sleep didn't exist..this experience right now would still exist but it won't be labelled as consciousness or existence. 

 

[ExploringReality]

Happiness and suffering are two sides of the same coin of survival. This is the mechanics of survival. Survival is a charged activity that is being constantly maintained by the sense of self, which it's job is to move towards what serves the self and away from anything that threatens it.

There is something transcendental that happiness points to but it is not of this world so to speak. It is possible to live within the world of cravings and pain but not be bound by it. This is something that is profoundly possible, it's called being a sage.

[theleelajoker]

4 hours ago, Princess Arabia said:

It doubles the chances. Now you've got both genders capable of hurting you. Can't escape. Desire can be painful.

Damn. Asexual?

[Ishanga]

Happiness is way more natural too Us than Suffering, I would say most of the Suffering today is Mental/Emotional, of course there are some that suffer a disease and pain from it or live in horrendous places (Gaza), but that is not the majority, most are Self Suffering because they don't know how the Mind or Emotions work...

Just look at Yourself as a 4 or 5 yr old, or any kid, they are much more naturally happy than adults, if the basics are there, they play and have endless energy, but when we grow up in today's world its too mind/intellect orientated which is why we suffer so much...

Happiness is not the goal of Spirituality, its just the foundation upon which the path is built upon...

[Natasha Tori Maru]

10 hours ago, Princess Arabia said:

Yes, but most desire happiness, not to "not suffer". Most are telling people how to be happy not how to not suffer, even though both are pretty much the same thing but there's a subtle difference and that's what the post is pointing to. How suffering is there but happiness is being chased and that makes it more of the enemy than suffering because it's what's driving the suffering, the lack of happiness. 

That could be true - do you think most people desire happiness? I do not know what to think there, as I have only ever desired peace. And that was definitely born of a desire to escape suffering. I think you have highlighted a looping positive feedback cycle: Desire for happiness causes suffering, causes increased desire for happiness to escape the self generated suffering - ad infinitum.

This business of selling happiness arising from the social domain of society is backwards ay? Peace should be the aim.

[ExploringReality]

3 hours ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

That could be true - do you think most people desire happiness? I do not know what to think there, as I have only ever desired peace. And that was definitely born of a desire to escape suffering. I think you have highlighted a looping positive feedback cycle: Desire for happiness causes suffering, causes increased desire for happiness to escape the self generated suffering - ad infinitum.

This business of selling happiness arising from the social domain of society is backwards ay? Peace should be the aim.

Yeah definitely. Happiness is not found in the world, the world is change and impermanence. Happiness is created from within. Nothing can make you happy. The beauty of life is to embrace the suffering and pleasures without clinging to them or resisting change.

I once had an Awakening on LSD that the reason why people chase and seek happiness and pleasure in their lives, is because they don't know who they are and that they feel that they are incomplete and not whole. The desire for happiness is suffering, is the fear of death, the fear of maintaining this seperete self. 

Most people desire things of the world that do not last and cannot save them from the drowning waters of dissolution. They don't want tranquility and peace of mind. They want to run on the hamster wheel of becoming and achieving without realizing they're pissing it all away.

[UnbornTao]

Wanting happiness is itself an act rooted in suffering.

If you want something, that implies that the object of desire is already separate from you.

So, don't want it. Be happy.

How? Not sure, but do it anyway. Additionally, getting clear on what being is sounds like a sensible direction to take.

Edited August 22 by UnbornTao

[Ishanga]

8 hours ago, UnbornTao said:

Wanting happiness is itself an act rooted in suffering.

If you want something, that implies that the object of desire is already separate from you.

So, don't want it. Be happy.

How? Not sure, but do it anyway. Additionally, getting clear on what being is sounds like a sensible direction to take.

I disagree, it is more natural to want to be Happy than too Suffer, that is a certainty.

We are capable of Experiences, if we weren't then none of this would matter, so because that is so Happiness (and above like Bliss, Ecstasy) are all Available to Us, as are their polar opposites, but as I said before, Happiness  (not pleasure seeking, 5 senses satisfaction) is Empowering for Us, its heals our Bodies and Mind which are our basic tools to use while Embodied!!

[Natasha Tori Maru]

20 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

I disagree, it is more natural to want to be Happy than too Suffer, that is a certainty.

Where was it stated it was not natural?

Where do you perceive the desire for happiness comes from? 

[UnbornTao]

2 hours ago, Ishanga said:

I disagree, it is more natural to want to be Happy than too Suffer, that is a certainty.

We are capable of Experiences, if we weren't then none of this would matter, so because that is so Happiness (and above like Bliss, Ecstasy) are all Available to Us, as are their polar opposites, but as I said before, Happiness  (not pleasure seeking, 5 senses satisfaction) is Empowering for Us, its heals our Bodies and Mind which are our basic tools to use while Embodied!!

The claim is that the desire for happiness implies unhappiness. It suggests you don't have it now and therefore must engage in a process to achieve it. This itself is an act of suffering. It turns happiness into a survival goal. You aren't being happy while pursuing the happiness-goal. On the other hand, we do tend to engage in various forms of suffering already, so there's no need to desire suffering.  We obviously tend to be averse to it.

For example, notice that when you're angry, you do not desire to be angry. That's clear, since we already regard anger as an undesirable emotion, for the most part. The point is that you can't want something you already have or are already experiencing. You may desire its continuation - but that relates to the future. Similarly, you might wish to recreate a memory of past happiness by somehow trying to force it into now. Neither of those is about being happy now.

We may well be confusing the successful fulfillment of our self-agenda with real happiness. By the way, I'm not saying it's inaccessible or mysterious. Still, what is happiness?

Edited August 22 by UnbornTao

[Ishanga]

8 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

Where was it stated it was not natural?

Where do you perceive the desire for happiness comes from? 

When he said "Wanting Happiness is rooted in Suffering". too me that translates as Suffering is the natural state of a Human Being...

Its a natural Desire, not a Mental or Intellectual desire, since the Body and Mind work more effectively when one is in a Pleasant or Happy State, that means we are meant to be this way naturally...By Naturally I mean this is how our system works best, today ppl are self sabotaging themselves, they cause their own suffering for the most part due to a lack of Awareness of how this system works...

Suffering or Pain causes the Body and Mind to be worse off, fight or flight, yes we need it too survive but sustained states of it lead to disease and ill health and no empowerment...

[Ishanga]

11 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

The claim is that the desire for happiness implies unhappiness. It suggests you don't have it now and therefore must engage in a process to achieve it. This itself is an act of suffering. It turns happiness into a survival goal. You aren't being happy while pursuing the happiness-goal.

For example, notice that when you're angry, you do not desire to be angry. That's obvious, since we already regard anger as an undesirable emotion, for the most part. The point is that you can't want something you already have or are already experiencing. You may desire its continuation - but that relates to the future rather than what's available to you now.

Similarly, you might wish to recreate a memory of past happiness in the present and try to force it into now by manipulating circumstances. But neither is this being happy.

We may, in fact, be confusing the successful fulfillment of our self-agenda with real happiness. So - what is it?

Most of the above is due to Unconsciousness on how our system, how the Human mechanism works, which is the whole point of engaging in a Spiritual Path, so that the Potential within each of Us becomes Conscious too Us, when that happens one Realizes our natural state is Happiness, not suffering..

Most all suffering happening today is mental/emotional, not many are being tortured daily by someone, but most are self suffering, not accepting, living past/memory or future/imagination states not present in the moment or Accepting things as they are...

[Natasha Tori Maru]

10 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

When he said "Wanting Happiness is rooted in Suffering". too me that translates as Suffering is the natural state of a Human Being...

This is not precisely what it means. But your own personal interpretation is within your rights to have 🙃

Do you think happiness is our natural state? Or peace? 

I would counter this that labelling things natural or not sort of muddies the water.

For you to want something implies you do not have it - that's where the 'hole of happiness' within comes from. Recognising that we are already whole, unfettered, perfect, to begin with, is key. You would never seek it if you didn't think you didn't have it. 

Desiring happiness can be argued as unconscious behaviour. Because you do not see the existential consequences of it.

[UnbornTao]

Again, it's possible that we don't really know what happiness is - or suffering, for that matter. And the point isn't that desiring something is wrong. Or that pain and suffering are good. 

It might be that suffering is 'natural' when it comes to a self struggling to survive (not to a human being, though.) Perhaps the goal was never happiness, but survival - and there's nothing wrong with that pursuit either. As a self, experience is divided into good and bad. Notice that "being happy" doesn't usually mean being happy with everything that happens, or regardless of circumstances. Conventionally speaking, being happy tends to signify "achieving what I want and avoiding what I don't want." 

Freedom comes to mind when considering happiness. Are we free from desiring and aversion? Can we be happy even when our desires are thwarted, or despite failing to avoid something unwanted? Can we allow our experience to be exactly what it is? Are we able to let go of dysfunctional things? How come we aren't always in bliss? Can you be happy now?

There might be a relationship between being and happiness.

Edited August 23 by UnbornTao