Good Looking but Still Invisible to Women — What Am I Missing?

[czar24]

@Princess Arabia I feel like this is the case whether women are attracted to muscular body types or not. Even if you were attracted, I would still have to have "personality" as you put it.

[Princess Arabia]

1 minute ago, czar24 said:

@Princess Arabia I feel like this is the case whether women are attracted to muscular body types or not. Even if you were attracted, I would still have to have "personality" as you put it.

Well, your concern is mostly about your physical. If you know this as you say that women pay attention to personalities and agree with me, why isn't your concern more personality related. I think you like the validation you'd get from women liking your body-type. That's what you seek, that particular feeling. You don't give two craps about what a woman thinks about your personality as you couldn't care less, initially, about a woman's. This is clear from your remarks about the women being beautiful. Most guys are this way, anyway.

You probably aren't seeking out women for women's sake, you're probably seeking validation. Yeah, don't you find me hot and good-looking. That's the feeling you're after; precisely what I see in guys with this body-type and maybe why I'm just not initially attracted to that. To be even more directly honest, it's a turn-off but I leave an open-mind about it in case the guy turns out to be sweet or about something I find more appealing to over-ride this look.

Just the heading of the thread alone and the way you worded it, I believe, makes my point. Guys will quickly find out the true nature of things when they test out things in the real world. I'm not saying you don't look good, it's just not what I'm attracted to. I've also heard other women say they're not attracted to buff looking guys. Top reason is they look like they would  spend more time in the mirror than them. 

[Miguel1]

All of this work you are doing is putting you towards the complete wrong momentum: validation seeking momentum.

You need to let all of that crap go and go the opposite direction: PLAY. Read Leo’s recent Play Awakening blogpost.

Owen’s hot seat digital program is worth it. Just a few hundred bucks. Don’t pay thousands for the bootcamp, unless you have ton of money to throw away.

Coming from a guy who finds success with women extremely easy, and has studied and practiced seduction and attraction for over a decade.

Edited 8 hours ago by Miguel1

[czar24]

This post has helped me understand the importance of communicating things clearly—which I haven't done well.

I'm going to talk a little bit about my web design journey, how I taught myself visual design, learned apps like Webflow, and even got into some coding—because I think it ties into the issue I'm dealing with.

There are things from my childhood that I won’t go into detail about right now, but they shaped who I am today: very serious, very stern. I’ve gotten feedback from friends—honest dudes—who’ve told me I come off like I don’t want to be bothered. But once someone gets to know me, they realize I’m actually a cool guy.

I bought into hustle culture. I built my portfolio, made business cards, and created impressive websites—but it put me in a logical mindset that isn’t helpful when it comes to seduction. It made me way too serious.

I created a narrative that I was at war—with the company I worked at, with my inner demons—which is what led me to waking up at 4:00 a.m. every day, lifting weights on an empty stomach, and building everything I’ve built.

Also, I’m at a job I hate.

One thing I do feel proud of, though, is that I never blamed women for my issues. Growing up, I always blamed myself. Even now, I still do.

I guess what I’m trying to do with this post is reach out to any men who’ve dealt with this—being too serious, not enjoying life, taking things too hard—and who found routines or exercises that actually helped them get out of it.

I’ve gotten advice in the past like “just be yourself,” “don’t take things too seriously,” “smile more”—and yeah, those things worked for a bit, but I’d always fall back into that same serious mindset.

I apologize for any misunderstandings anyone had with my previous post. And if you’re a guy who used to be like this—depressed, overly serious—and you managed to tap into your playful, carefree side and build a strong inner frame… please let me know how you did it.

[ExploringReality]

1 hour ago, Princess Arabia said:

Well, your concern is mostly about your physical. If you know this as you say that women pay attention to personalities and agree with me, why isn't your concern more personality related. I think you like the validation you'd get from women liking your body-type. That's what you seek, that particular feeling. You don't give two craps about what a woman thinks about your personality as you couldn't care less, initially, about a woman's. This is clear from your remarks about the women being beautiful. Most guys are this way, anyway.

You probably aren't seeking out women for women's sake, you're probably seeking validation. Yeah, don't you find me hot and good-looking. That's the feeling you're after; precisely what I see in guys with this body-type and maybe why I'm just not initially attracted to that. To be even more directly honest, it's a turn-off but I leave an open-mind about it in case the guy turns out to be sweet or about something I find more appealing to over-ride this look.

Just the heading of the thread alone and the way you worded it, I believe, makes my point. Guys will quickly find out the true nature of things when they test out things in the real world. I'm not saying you don't look good, it's just not what I'm attracted to. I've also heard other women say they're not attracted to buff looking guys. Top reason is they look like they would  spend more time in the mirror than them. 

I love beautiful women. We'll all women are beautiful actually even the ones we judge, but I am attracted to personality, how someone speaks, the depths of their communication. I would never search and Chase validation. That's like chasing a high on a drug. That's the problem with these gym bros, steroid heads, that it's all for validation and a sense of security. It's really hollow trying to get a girl through looks when coming from a place of lack.

Edited 7 hours ago by ExploringReality

[czar24]

@Miguel1 Im currently looking for the blog post now. Not seeing it. Was there ever a period in your life where you were too serious or had a lot going on in your head and you weren't good with women?

[Princess Arabia]

2 minutes ago, ExploringReality said:

I love beautiful women. We'll all women are beautiful actually even the ones we judge, but I damn attractive to personality, how someone speaks, the depths of their communication. I would never search and Chase validation. That's like chasing a high on a drug. That's the problem with these gym Bros, steroid heads that it's off for validation and a sense of security. It's really hollow trying to get a girl through looks when coming from a place of lack.

I've seen your pics. You look pretty normal to me. Hard to tell because of distance and you have clothes on, but I don't consider, from what I've seen and even from your current pp, i don't consider that buffed. You box too, so that's more naturally attained and will look different than guys who work out constantly in the gym to look buffed. You seem to be proportioned. 

[Princess Arabia]

12 minutes ago, ExploringReality said:

I love beautiful women. We'll all women are beautiful actually even the ones we judge, but I damn attractive to personality, how someone speaks, the depths of their communication.

I only mentioned the 'beautiful women' part because of comments he made and responses given where he seemed to stress the beautiful part about women. Shows he takes that seriously and is a top priority. Most guys love beautiful women but I was stressing a point with him. I think he thinks now that he's buffed that should attract beautiful women, but he has learnt the hard way that it doesn't. Quite the contrary, lots of fat girls will be looking and gawking. Beautiful women are usually going with guys they already have a rapport with not some random buffed guy off the strip. The guy they already have a rapport with may be buffed but just seeing that isn't enough for girls to say hmm, and will gladly go out just for that reason. Rapport with could still mean just met, btw, but she just enjoys your company.

Edited 7 hours ago by Princess Arabia

[czar24]

@ExploringReality Thank you for your input.I see the point your making and I apologized for the misunderstanding. I made another post that clarified the point I failed to make in the initial post that gives further context to my situation.

[ExploringReality]

@Princess Arabia

I walk around at 145 lbs. I'm lean but not overly buff, I'm shredded. 

But seeing the guys at the local gyms, it's literally a circus of people playing out their inner worlds. It's absurd how they walk, talk and workout. It's all for outer validation, well it seems that way. Or people play extra hard at the personality game just for sex and relations that it's not authentic.

Edited 7 hours ago by ExploringReality

[Princess Arabia]

4 minutes ago, ExploringReality said:

@Princess Arabia

I walk around at 145 lbs. I'm lean but not overly buff, I'm shredded. 

But seeing the guys at the local gyms, it's literally a circus of people playing out their inner worlds. It's absurd how they walk, talk and workout. It's all for outer validation, well it seems that way. Or people play extra hard at the personality game just for sex and relations that it's not authentic.

I just looked at your profile close up. Your look is natural. I guess it's equivalent to boob jobs with guys and how some just hate when women get them and prefer a more natural look. Most don't care if they look natural though. It's not even about being authentic and hollow but more is it even working. Do women even care as much. Some might, but I bet most don't. 

[ExploringReality]

@Princess Arabia

To each their own. Men definitely are hooked by looks, but when we obsess over our own looks and worrying about being attractive it can throw women off. Doesn't mean you don't take care of yourself, look good, workout, but your not doing it for external rewards, sex, compliment. Your doing it, whatever it is because you want to express yourself, and you love yourself so much that you don't seek that in others, but you radiate that to others instead without needing anything to fulfill you, and that counter logically attracts people around you. Hope we didn't jump in a deep end when we're all walking along this thread ahah

Edited 7 hours ago by ExploringReality

[Miguel1]

51 minutes ago, czar24 said:

@Miguel1 Im currently looking for the blog post now. Not seeing it. Was there ever a period in your life where you were too serious or had a lot going on in your head and you weren't good with women?

It was posted a week or two ago.

And yes, I have approached women before many times from a place of seriousness, logic, truth and got punished for it immediately.

Treat them like little kids and they’ll love you.

[Princess Arabia]

1 minute ago, ExploringReality said:

@Princess Arabia

To each their own. Men definitely are hooked by looks, but when we obsess over our own looks and worrying about being attractive it can throw women off. Doesn't mean you don't take care of yourself, look good, workout, but your not doing it for external rewards, sex, compliant. Your doing it, whatever it is because you want to express yourself, and you love yourself so much that you don't seek that in others, but you radiate that to others instead without needing anything to fulfill you. Hope we didn't jump in a deep end when we're all walking along this thread ahah

No, you're still on topic, just talking about men in general on the same topic OP is referring to. I get you and men tend to think women are attracted to the things they're attracted to in women and love the same as how men love. It's hard when most haven't taken the time to get to know and understand women. I find it's those that don't understand women for the most part that have a harder time attracting women. How does she feel around you, not your bulk size.

[Princess Arabia]

1 minute ago, Miguel1 said:

Treat them like little kids and they’ll love you.

Be careful with this. Not every guy can pull this off and not with every woman and depends on the context and what you mean by this. Leo can pull this off because he studies human psychology and other stuff dealing with humans and it took him a long time to get to this place. One has to know what they're doing to pull this off without coming off creepy or treating women like children, literally. It must be playfully done and coming from a place of playfulness itself. Some serious dude that takes himself seriously and is concerned about attracting women won't be able to right away unless he learns the skills on how to. 

[Miguel1]

@Princess Arabia Yes, of course. No one is saying that this is an overnight shift.

I’m just giving him a big picture to open his mind for possibilities.

The truth is that this is not easy for most guys, that’s why it is such a problem in society. It takes years of deep inner work, massive action and facing your fears to really master this.

[czar24]

Everyone is ignoring the second post I made. lol.. i love it

[Princess Arabia]

3 minutes ago, Miguel1 said:

@Princess Arabia Yes, of course. No one is saying that this is an overnight shift.

I’m just giving him a big picture to open his mind for possibilities.

The truth is that this is not easy for most guys, that’s why it is such a problem in society. It takes years of deep inner work, massive action and facing your fears to really master this.

Only if you believe this and one just has natural problem in this arena. Plenty of men are succeeding with women without an ounce of  inner work. They didn't have any of this stuff back in the day and men were always hooking up with women shit, even cavemen did it. Even now the deaf and dumb are doing it, the handicapped and the fat and not so handsome. It's a mindset. 

[Natasha Tori Maru]

@czar24

How would you say your flirting skills are? 

Body presence? (Many gym guys are disconnected from their body due to trying to force it into a shape, which can remove grace and body language charisma) 

The 'play' mindset is key. 

Your self report was that you were quite serious - If you want to engage this play mindset... Well... Seriousness runs counter to that! 

 

Edited 6 hours ago by Natasha Tori Maru

[Joshe]

6 hours ago, czar24 said:

And i'm not a bot

Ah, my bad. Just like 3 coincidences and the writing made me think that. 

6 hours ago, czar24 said:

I sing karaoke at the brass monkey every Monday. Why should I stay away from there? Also, do you currently reside in Key West?
I think I have lost most of the muscle now and won't have it for at least seven months now that I am recovering from an accident where i broke my left wrist. Do you think it would still benefit me to try and game in Key West? Why would it be easier in Key West than Marathon? What would you say the difference is?

I just found it's easy to get in trouble at the Brass Monkey. Lots of drug dealing and violent types flock there, at least when I was there. I moved out of the keys about 8 years ago, so things could have changed. 

Key west is a no-brainer compared to Marathon. I'm specifically thinking about Duval street. Surely you've been, right? If not, pull up this street cam: https://liveduvalstreet.com/ at night and you'll see an abundance of nice looking women just hanging out around there. It's not uncommon to see groups of drunk girls shaking their asses and tits to that camera. There's so many bars and clubs right next to each other and things are much more lively than Marathon. 

The Green Parrot off the 700 block is pretty cool. And Irish Kevins, 400 block I think. But also, tons of other off Duval street like Shannah Key (Irish bar). 

If you want to do pickup, Duval street. If you want to sit down and make friends with a lots of people, check out Coconuts in Big Pine, or the Tiki bar in Ramrod, just below Big Pine.

Only problem is Key West is over an hour drive for you. I'm not as familiar with Marathon but I never really saw much there. I do like that Sunset Grill (I think that's the name of it), right before the bridge leaving Marathon. 

You're in a great location to practice socializing. Probably want to heal up first though, lol. 

If you're already socializing around Marathon and doing things like karaoke, what's the problem? 

Edited 6 hours ago by Joshe