TYT says that no Corporate Democrat can win the presidency in 2028

[Elliott]

Here's the epitome of stupidity and contradiction for me from socialists

 

Socialists rail about free college right? What is college for, what do they want free college for: to make people smarter or to get better jobs? And then Socialists in their next breath rail for 'escaping the system', yet they're promoting the system in the other breath by promoting college and 'better jobs' as the answer. Socialists should be promoting self-sustaining lifestyles if they want to 'take down the system', what they promote clearly shows you that they don't care about basic needs, they're just envious and lazy, they want the system for themselves. How many socialists are running around demanding we feed and house the poor of the world, and then how many are demanding higher pay for baristas and amazon workers, free college, the ability for young people to move out of their parents homes, take more expensive vacations? What really is their order of priorities? How are they ethically different than Republicans in regards to economics?

Edited 5 hours ago by Elliott

[Joshe]

2 hours ago, Elliott said:

How are they ethically different than Republicans in regards to economics?

One difference is the width of their circle of concern. Of course, it's often tied into their egos, but that doesn't change the fact that in general, republicans have a relatively narrow circle of concern. Most republicans don't have much empathy outside their immediate family, community, church, etc. So their economics really only factor in what's good for them, not the nation. At least young, idealistic socialists actually care that people in general have relatively comfortable lives, while the conservatives in general don't give a t-total fuck about that. I'd say that's the main difference. Whether the socialist's position is logically sound or feasible is, IMO, not the point. The HOW of solving a problem can be adapted, but without the right intent, the problem will never get solved. That's the difference. Just because they don't have the answers doesn't mean their position is inferior. 

And when you say the electorate understands capitalism, socialism, and human nature, IDK where you live but this doesn't come close to my experience living in the US for 39 years. The electorate doesn't understand any of this. 

Edited 3 hours ago by Joshe

[Lyubov]

The electorate is dumb as fucking shit and doesn’t understand when it comes to any truthful or nuanced discussion of politics, economics or anything based in truth. They elected Donald Trump. Don’t ever let anyone gaslight you into thinking what’s going on now is normal or rational. It will be remembered by historians as a dark and dystopian time filled with wealth inequality and a massive tragedy of the commons. He’s just being contrarian and setting up some hurdles to try and sound like he “got ya”, devils advocate type points. 

[Lyubov]

2 hours ago, Elliott said:

Here's the epitome of stupidity and contradiction for me from socialists

 

Socialists rail about free college right? What is college for, what do they want free college for: to make people smarter or to get better jobs? And then Socialists in their next breath rail for 'escaping the system', yet they're promoting the system in the other breath by promoting college and 'better jobs' as the answer. Socialists should be promoting self-sustaining lifestyles if they want to 'take down the system', what they promote clearly shows you that they don't care about basic needs, they're just envious and lazy, they want the system for themselves. How many socialists are running around demanding we feed and house the poor of the world, and then how many are demanding higher pay for baristas and amazon workers, free college, the ability for young people to move out of their parents homes, take more expensive vacations? What really is their order of priorities? How are they ethically different than Republicans in regards to economics?

Nothing about capitalism is a self sustaining lifestyle. 

[Elliott]

17 minutes ago, Lyubov said:

Nothing about capitalism is a self sustaining lifestyle. 

Rural families growing their own food, repairing their own houses and vehicles, isn't a self-sustaining lifestyle? You need planned and governed communities, governed business, governed education, governed farming for self sustaining lifestyles?

Edited 3 hours ago by Elliott

[Elliott]

57 minutes ago, Joshe said:

One difference is the width of their circle of concern. Of course, it's often tied into their egos, but that doesn't change the fact that in general, republicans have a relatively narrow circle of concern. Most republicans don't have much empathy outside their immediate family, community, church, etc. So their economics really only factor in what's good for them, not the nation. At least young, idealistic socialists actually care that people in general have relatively comfortable lives, while the conservatives in general don't give a t-total fuck about that. I'd say that's the main difference. Whether the socialist's position is logically sound or feasible is, IMO, not the point. The HOW of solving a problem can be adapted, but without the right intent, the problem will never get solved. That's the difference. Just because they don't have the answers doesn't mean their position is inferior. 

It's just convenient that they're not the billionaires though? That they would be the beneficiaries. They only support it because they are a part of that group, that happens to be larger.

 

Quote

And when you say the electorate understands capitalism, socialism, and human nature, IDK where you live but this doesn't come close to my experience living in the US for 39 years. The electorate doesn't understand any of this. 

I asked for people to think critically about their positions. A lot of people do know the hazards of socialism and understand human nature, and a lot of people do understand the benefits of capitalism, I don't believe most individuals understand both socialism and capitalism, no, but collectively through voting, the electorate 'understands' in a way. Most people that support capitalism don't understand socialism, that's not what I mean, I meant the electorate as one, the outcomes of elections, and I don't mean that it's completely correct, just that elections go certain ways for a reason. Either 80 million Americans are literally retarded, or, they may see something you don't.

Edited 2 hours ago by Elliott

[Joshe]

3 minutes ago, Elliott said:

Most people that support capitalism don't understand socialism, that's not what I mean.

Bro, most people who say they support capitalism do not understand capitalism. It might seem that way if you live amongst and surround yourself with intellectuals, but the average person in the US doesn't even know what capitalism is, even if they claim to support it.

At best, they'd say it's where you're allowed to sell goods and services. But that's about as far as their knowledge goes, if it even reaches that point. I'd venture to guess maybe 25% of the electorate could demonstrate a somewhat satisfactory understanding of what capitalism is, and of those, maybe only 10% could tell you it's systemic effects and intelligently discuss the pros and cons. 

To understand capitalism does not come by way of intuition. It must be learned and contemplated, and this is an endeavor almost no one takes on. 

So your claim that conservatives understand capitalism is just absurd. I asked ChatGPT if I'm full of shit:

[Elliott]

19 minutes ago, Joshe said:

Bro, most people who say they support capitalism do not understand capitalism. It might seem that way if you live amongst and surround yourself with intellectuals, but the average person in the US doesn't even know what capitalism is, even if they claim to support it.

At best, they'd say it's where you're allowed to sell goods and services. But that's about as far as their knowledge goes, if it even reaches that point. I'd venture to guess maybe 25% of the electorate could demonstrate a somewhat satisfactory understanding of what capitalism is, and of those, maybe only 10% could tell you it's systemic effects and intelligently discuss the pros and cons. 

To understand capitalism does not come by way of intuition. It must be learned and contemplated, and this is an endeavor almost no one takes on. 

So your claim that conservatives understand capitalism is just absurd. I asked ChatGPT if I'm full of shit:

I didn't say they understand capitalism, i said some people understand the benefits of capitalism. Most people don't know what's going on, especially conservatives. Most people do know some things though.

Edited 2 hours ago by Elliott

[Joshe]

12 minutes ago, Elliott said:

I didn't say they understand capitalism, i said some people understand the benefits of capitalism. Most people don't know what's going on, especially conservatives.

Oh, I thought you said "They understand capitalism vs. socialism better. They understand human nature better." with "they" being the electorate. My bad. 

[Elliott]

13 minutes ago, Joshe said:

Oh, I thought you said "They understand capitalism vs. socialism better. They understand human nature better." with "they" being the electorate. My bad. 

And who was I talking to and what electorate was I talking about? I was talking to a specific user, a socialist, the electorate i was refering to was not exclusively republican voters.

Electorate doesn't mean whoever wins the election, it's all voters.

 

Edited 2 hours ago by Elliott

[Elliott]

 

53 minutes ago, Elliott said:

 

I asked for people to think critically about their positions. A lot of people do know the hazards of socialism and understand human nature, and a lot of people do understand the benefits of capitalism, I don't believe most individuals understand both socialism and capitalism, no, but collectively through voting, the electorate 'understands' in a way. Most people that support capitalism don't understand socialism, that's not what I mean, I meant the electorate as one, the outcomes of elections, and I don't mean that it's completely correct, just that elections go certain ways for a reason. Either 80 million Americans are literally retarded, or, they may see something you don't.

 

[Joshe]

5 minutes ago, Elliott said:

I was talking to a specific user, a socialist, the electorate i was refering to was not exclusively republican voters.

Gotcha. It just sounded like you were saying the majority position in the electorate (conservative) is more accurate than the position of the one you're calling a socialist, and it sounded like you were using an appeal to popularity and/or wisdom of the crowd fallacy to prove that point. So I just thought I'd swoop in and remind everyone that the electorate is dumb af. 😆

[Elliott]

8 minutes ago, Joshe said:

Gotcha. It just sounded like you were saying the majority position in the electorate (conservative) is more accurate than the position of the one you're calling a socialist, and it sounded like you were using an appeal to popularity and/or wisdom of the crowd fallacy to prove that point. So I just thought I'd swoop in and remind everyone that the electorate is dumb af. 😆

In that vein, I was trying to say even dumb people can know something that you don't.

[Joshe]

3 minutes ago, Elliott said:

In that vein, I was trying to say even dumb people can know something that you don't.

So are you saying the electorate has been getting it right? 

[Elliott]

59 minutes ago, Joshe said:

So are you saying the electorate has been getting it right? 

In regard to opposing socialism, which is the singular issue that lets republicans win.

Edited 41 minutes ago by Elliott

[Joshe]

44 minutes ago, Elliott said:

In regard to opposing socialism, which is the single issue that lets republicans win.

They're not opposing socialism. That implies they are thinking. 

We've already covered that they aren't arriving at "socialism bad" from analysis. And they are not intuiting socialism is bad, as that cannot be intuited without knowledge.

They say "socialism bad" because homeostasis, fear, propaganda, tribalism, culture war. They tribally adopt "socialism bad, liberal bad, capitalism  = conservative = good" like a Pavlovian reflex, not from some magical wisdom that just happens to find them. 

I smell Jordan Peterson. 

Edited 11 minutes ago by Joshe