I Escaped a Cult - Monastic Academy for the Preservation of Life on Earth Review

[zurew]

6 minutes ago, Wilhelm44 said:

and you didn't respond

Yes I have with the murder scene analogy and you havent addressed it (you havent shown that the bit that you picked out is  false, you just said that that one bit being true in and of itself doesnt make something a cult).

But even if you could show that that bit is false and isn't applicable to actualized.org (which again you havent done yet) - Cult is a cluster concept and this is not the kind of concept where you can just find all the necessary conditions and if you manage to shot down one of those, then the thing is not a cult anymore.

There are many different configuration of facts that can make something a cult. This is why you need to analyze this in clusters of facts and not just bit by bit.

[Natasha Tori Maru]

16 minutes ago, Wilhelm44 said:

I grant you that, Leo is rough around the edges, when it comes to responding to people with different realizations than him. But think about it, what does he have to gain by doing so. He'll probably just piss some people off who end up leaving. 

This can be explained by egoic attachment to the teacher role, narcissism. Inflated ego. 

Could be many motivations behind it. 

It could be a mechanism to funnel out those who would not follow, and keep narcissistic supply close via adoration from students.

Just some possibilities - I don't have a dog in this fight.

[Wilhelm44]

17 minutes ago, zurew said:

Yes I have with the murder scene analogy and you havent addressed it (you havent shown that the bit that you picked out is  false, you just said that that one bit being true in and of itself doesnt make something a cult).

But even if you could show that that bit is false and isn't applicable to actualized.org (which again you havent done yet) - Cult is a cluster concept and this is not the kind of concept where you can just find all the necessary conditions and if you manage to shot down one of those, then the thing is not a cult anymore.

There are many different configuration of facts that can make something a cult. This is why you need to analyze this in clusters of facts and not just bit by bit.

I hear you, it's a complicated matter, and I'm sure I don't have all the info.

I'm a simple man, and I feel there is also some value in being direct and to the point.

Can you honestly say that you feel unsafe, or manipulated for nefarious purposes, here in any way ?

Edited 1 hour ago by Wilhelm44

[Wilhelm44]

9 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

This can be explained by egoic attachment to the teacher role, narcissism. Inflated ego. 

Could be many motivations behind it. 

It could be a mechanism to funnel out those who would not follow, and keep narcissistic supply close via adoration from students.

Just some possibilities - I don't have a dog in this fight.

I didn't think of that. You're already planning your own breakaway cult, aren't you ?

[Natasha Tori Maru]

@Wilhelm44 profiling the vulnerability and suggestibility of the members ... 😇

[zurew]

18 minutes ago, Wilhelm44 said:

Can you honestly say that you feel unsafe, or manipulated for nefarious purposes, here in any way ?

Unsafe? No. Manipulated ? Yes. (disagreement means you are dumb or you are self-deceived or you are disrespectful).

Read some of the links that I gave you (it specifically leads you to my posts in those threads).

Leo has a bunch of plausible deniability moves which he uses so that he doesnt need to take responsbility and if you manage to corner him on that then he will admit that he was wrong, but not for the thing that he supposed to give an apology or acknowledgement for (he will give you apology for using bad words , but he wont acknowledge the deeper underlying judgemental and behavioral problems that consistently and systematically come up over and over again and cant be simply explained away by being unhinged sometimes).

The other interesting thing is that once you manage to corner him , he might acknowledge that thing, but he will pivot back to the exact same tactic that he was cornered for in the past  if that tactic becomes convenient for him to use given a new context(he will try to redo that tactic given the new waters up until the point that he is cornered for that same thing again).

Edited 55 minutes ago by zurew

[Mellowmarsh]

 

AI says…Psychology and sociology heavily support the idea that most humans are shaped by cultural conditioning. From birth, we internalize beliefs, values, and behaviors through repetition and social rewards or punishments. This process seamlessly aligns with our innate evolutionary drive to belong to a group.

———-

My personal opinion on this matter is ….
Cult is just a shortened version of Culture, which in general is just human programmed conditioned shared beliefs from birth. . . But I see no evidence that the subject topics discussed here on Leo’s forum is of a cult mentality. Quite the opposite is true in fact. It’s more to do with deconstructing belief systems, not artificially creating them via manipulation and control. That’s not what I see happening here.

No one participating here or following is ever forced or obligated to believe anything that’s being said or written here. The topics here at actualised.org is more about doing away with All BELIEF systems, rather than just blindly believing anything you read or hear as gospel truth, it’s about making your own mind up, and not having your mind made up by someone else.

 

 

 

Edited 46 minutes ago by Mellowmarsh

[Wilhelm44]

28 minutes ago, zurew said:

Unsafe? No. Manipulated ? Yes. (disagreement means you are dumb or you are self-deceived or you are disrespectful).

Read some of the links that I gave you (it specifically leads you to my posts in those threads).

Leo has a bunch of plausible deniability moves which he uses so that he doesnt need to take responsbility and if you manage to corner him on that then he will admit that he was wrong, but not for the thing that he supposed to give an apology or acknowledgement for (he will give you apology for using bad words , but he wont acknowledge the deeper underlying judgemental and behavioral problems that consistently and systematically come up over and over again and cant be simply explained away by being unhinged sometimes).

The other interesting thing is that once you manage to corner him , he might acknowledge that thing, but he will pivot back to the exact same tactic that he was cornered for in the past  if that tactic becomes convenient for him to use given a new context(he will try to redo that tactic given the new waters up until the point that he is cornered for that same thing again).

Thank you, I am busy reading through the links you shared.

I don't think you answered my full question though.

I acknowledge that you felt manipulated.

And I'm sure Leo has some blind spots in the way he goes about things.

But my question was, did you feel manipulated "for nefarious purposes" ?

ie to be financially, sexually or otherwise literally exploited in some way.

Or was it ultimately just Leo defending his position in a not so enlightened way. 

Edited 28 minutes ago by Wilhelm44

[Mellowmarsh]

Also when you deeply think about where beliefs actually come from. Including all our bits of knowledge we’ve accumulated and archived away for future reference, o when the demand for such is required. You’ll discover that all our bits of knowledge and beliefs come from the exact same place. So there’s actually no one who has got a more superior monopoly over knowledge.

 

There’s simply no author of this universe, except as an imaginary character. Fiction then is very much a fact.

[Wilhelm44]

36 minutes ago, Mellowmarsh said:

 

AI says…Psychology and sociology heavily support the idea that most humans are shaped by cultural conditioning. From birth, we internalize beliefs, values, and behaviors through repetition and social rewards or punishments. This process seamlessly aligns with our innate evolutionary drive to belong to a group.

———-

My personal opinion on this matter is ….
Cult is just a shortened version of Culture, which in general is just human programmed conditioned shared beliefs from birth. . . But I see no evidence that the subject topics discussed here on Leo’s forum is of a cult mentality. Quite the opposite is true in fact. It’s more to do with deconstructing belief systems, not artificially creating them via manipulation and control. That’s not what I see happening here.

No one participating here or following is ever forced or obligated to believe anything that’s being said or written here. The topics here at actualised.org is more about doing away with All BELIEF systems, rather than just blindly believing anything you read or hear as gospel truth, it’s about making your own mind up, and not having your mind made up by someone else.

 

 

 

Spot on.