Meditation as the unwinding of energy

[Inliytened1]

2 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Aversion to substance in teaching is a bit like going to war and not using your weapons. You already went to war, you already committed to taking the messy route. If you prefer fighting it with your fists or rolling down the battlefield in a wheelchair, that's a choice you can make, but don't pretend like it's a noble choice. Self-imposed retardation is still retardation.

Im going to save you all the riff raff and the turmoil.   Honestly, if a full on kundalini awakening hasn't happened yet..the chances are it won't. I would look towards a psychedelic approach to enlightenment.   Because with meditation it happens fast.

[Carl-Richard]

2 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Im going to save you all the riff raff and the turmoil.   Honestly, if a full on kundalini awakening hasn't happened yet..the chances are it won't. I would look towards a psychedelic approach to enlightenment.   Because with meditation it happens fast.

And below self-imposed retardation, you have learned helplessness.

[aurum]

29 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Transmission is just a fancy word for tuning into and reacting to what you're perceiving (and when the object is another human, it's often called empathy). It's not a magical thing. I feel like I have to constantly say that things are not magical 🤔

It still doesn't seem effective.

29 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Do you have spontaneous awakenings outside meditation? Do you feel anywhere close to making the awakened state your baseline state?

I'm going to assume by "awakened state" you do not mean existing as pure, formless, Godhead. Because there's no way you're making that your baseline state.

If by awakened state you mean a moment by moment understanding of what this is, what your reality is, then yes I'm made much progress in that area. My clarity is better than it's ever been.

It's so obvious what reality is and how it couldn't be anything else. This is pure consciousness.

That said, I still think my understanding could be deepened. So I'm not claiming any sort of end state.

[Inliytened1]

1 minute ago, Carl-Richard said:

And below self-imposed retardation, you have learned helplessness.

Not sure how to respond.  Don't tell me the goal is to meditate better. It's to awaken.  

[Carl-Richard]

2 minutes ago, aurum said:

I'm going to assume by "awakened state" you do not mean existing as pure, formless, Godhead. Because there's no way you're making that your baseline state.

Seeing the formless in form, more than ~95% of the time.

[aurum]

7 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Seeing the formless in form, more than ~95% of the time.

I prefer the definition of awakened state I used as moment to moment understanding. I think it's more accurate.

Edited July 14 by aurum

[Natasha Tori Maru]

@Inliytened1 I don't think having a goal of awakening is a good thing with this sort of work.

You place your base within a space of lack 'I am not enlightened'. Setting yourself up for disappointment if you don't reach it - some people may never reach awakening or enlightenment.

But through the process, they expand consciousness. 

Isn't it about the process?

Also this 'awakening' is just another belief to embed into people. 

 

[Inliytened1]

1 minute ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

@Inliytened1 I don't think having a goal of awakening is a good thing with this sort of work.

You place your base within a space of lack 'I am not enlightened'. Setting yourself up for disappointment if you don't reach it - some people may never reach awakening or enlightenment.

But through the process, they expand consciousness. 

Isn't it about the process?

Also this 'awakening' is just another belief to embed into people. 

 

As I told Leo.  Whether we all want to acknowledge it or not...the ultimate goal is Absolute Truth.   You can lie to.me but that is what it's all about.  So we can fiddle around all we want with meditation but if it won't bring about enlightenment then seek other measures.  Just saying.  

[Carl-Richard]

9 minutes ago, aurum said:

I prefer the definition of awakened state I used in my last post about moment to moment understanding. I think it's more accurate.

Is there no sense that you're running up against a threshold, that this state seems to be maximizing or self-sustaining? Or is it much more fluctuating or even rare?

[aurum]

10 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Is there no sense that you're running up against a threshold, that this state seems to be maximizing or self-sustaining? Or is it much more fluctuating or even rare?

It is not rare at all. Understanding feels available to me at almost all times, if I choose. Very self-sustaining.

Sometimes I do get distracted and lose awareness though.

I'm not sure what you mean exactly by running up against a threshold or state-maximizing. Explain?

[Natasha Tori Maru]

2 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

As I told Leo.  Whether we all want to acknowledge it or not...the ultimate goal is Absolute Truth.   You can lie to.me but that is what it's all about.  So we can fiddle around all we want with meditation but if it won't bring about enlightenment then seek other measures.  Just saying.  

Do you not see the irony?

You are calling out others for introducing techniques/systems to use as a way to engage meditative states as 'overcomplicating', 'unnecessary'.

And then simultaneously implanting this belief in 'enlightenment' 'awakening' - when belief removal is where its at.

It is a belief until it is lived Truth.

Doing what you are doing is going to confuse people more.

The only way is for others to engage in the process with no aim for an outcome. Only to discover for THEMSELVES what is true.

Not what is true for YOU.

Which is why you guide to the truth. You don't shove some foreign belief or aim into someone's head.

You are taking away all the magic from the process - and no I am not lying to you. I don't know how this isn't totally clear to you, if you have experienced this as you say.

Edited July 14 by Natasha Tori Maru

[Sugarcoat]

9 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

9 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

Yes, sorry for being poetic lol.

 

Yes, lightly.

 

 

Understood

9 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

 

No difference. Sensation is energy. It's just when the sensation follows a certain dynamic pattern or movement in your body, it's more illustrative to call it energy (because energy is involved with movement).

When working with meditation, realist/materialist assumptions are virtually irrelevant. You don't need to think about whether there exists energy "out there" independent of you. That's only a distraction, something to deconstruct. You want to deal with what is readily apparent, right here, right now.

 

I see. I'm talking about very concrete energy/sensations that you can observe right now, but they're subtle, so it helps to stay still. It's nothing magical: it's literally tiny movements across your body.

Ok understood, I don’t think I’ve noticed that particular movement you talk about. It’s very subtle indeed.  

[Inliytened1]

3 hours ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

Do you not see the irony?

You are calling out others for introducing techniques/systems to use as a way to engage meditative states as 'overcomplicating', 'unnecessary'.

And then simultaneously implanting this belief in 'enlightenment' 'awakening' - when belief removal is where its at.

It is a belief until it is lived Truth.

Doing what you are doing is going to confuse people more.

The only way is for others to engage in the process with no aim for an outcome. Only to discover for THEMSELVES what is true.

Not what is true for YOU.

Which is why you guide to the truth. You don't shove some foreign belief or aim into someone's head.

You are taking away all the magic from the process - and no I am not lying to you. I don't know how this isn't totally clear to you, if you have experienced this as you say.

There were two methods of meditation i used.  One was self inquiry and the other was do nothing meditation.  I guess you would call it that?  Just sit there.  Thats it.  The whole point of meditation, again, is to stop the mnd.   Like the Buddha did.  Thats what you want.  Oh.  I also used concentration meditation.  Thats actually a big one. While you are sitting there just stare at something.   Keep doing that until it begins to dance to and fro.

Thats it. That was the magic of the Buddha.   He just kept it simple.

 

Edited July 14 by Inliytened1

[Natasha Tori Maru]

52 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

There were two methods of meditation i used.  One was self inquiry and the other was do nothing meditation.  I guess you would call it that?  Just sit there.  Thats it.  The whole point of meditation, again, is to stop the mnd.   Like the Buddha did.  Thats what you want.  Oh.  I also used concentration meditation.  Thats actually a big one. While you are sitting there just stare at something.   Keep doing that until it begins to dance to and fro.

Thats it. That was the magic of the Buddha.   He just kept it simple.

 

A practice - a tool you used. 

I don't think it matters how you chip away at the relative, through practice, to slowly reveal the absolute. The tool isn't relevant. 

I used self-enquiry (deconstruction) & body scanning/energy sensation. There are many different techniques.

For my unique physiology, working with the body, to access sharpening of the mind, was the most effective.

Bodywork is the missing link for most people. 

Maybe the Buddha kept it simple (we don't actually know this).

I do thank you, for sharing your process

 

[Inliytened1]

5 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

A practice - a tool you used. 

I don't think it matters how you chip away at the relative, through practice, to slowly reveal the absolute. The tool isn't relevant. 

I used self-enquiry (deconstruction) & body scanning/energy sensation. There are many different techniques.

For my unique physiology, working with the body, to access sharpening of the mind, was the most effective.

Bodywork is the missing link for most people. 

Maybe the Buddha kept it simple (we don't actually know this).

I do thank you, for sharing your process

 

Very interesting. Indeed. 

But why the bodywork? I don't understand that.  In fact Truth reveals that the body is an illusion.  So how does that fit in for you? Thank you for sharing as well.  Just followed you.  

[Natasha Tori Maru]

19 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Very interesting. Indeed. 

But why the bodywork? I don't understand that.  In fact Truth reveals that the body is an illusion.  So how does that fit in for you? Thank you for sharing as well.  Just followed you.  

Grounding in my body forces a state change. Takes me out of the mind chatter.

So movement + breath. Thoughts begin to slow, then cease. From here expanding consciousness comes so easily (for me). 

The contemplation/self-enquiry is essential. Otherwise, I haven't found a way to integrate the experience. And without the contemplation & integration the elevated consciousness cannot be taken into typical human life. Small breakthroughs get carried into the relative domain when I nail this, but it is slow work to do while also working full time.

Because I have to work in the relative domain to access the absolute - and the body is confined to this domain - working in movement accesses higher states of consciousness. Because in this reality, the body has to act as the element to induce friction against all the things that are 'defined' ie chairs vs bodyweight, textures vs skin, smells vs nose, sunlight vs eyes to produce experience - or being.

I think my strange approach is working at consciousness from both angles - the mind removing all thinking/ideas/concepts while pulling all awareness into pure experience of sensation.

Mind & body the same.

Leveraging the relative to access the absolute.

 

[Natasha Tori Maru]

@Inliytened1 Followed back! 

An addendum - I think going to body method is pretty hard for most people. Maybe even impossible. You need to be so clean with everything. Organic, no chemicals (or reduced), sleep discipline, no sugar (at all), minimal meat. No overeating or over-exercising. And above all, no hatred or negativity toward the body. No punishing the body. No negativity to looks or appearance. All this really helped me, but I realize most people think I'm a freak because I won't eat the pastries at the office. Or won't touch fast food etc. It's a level of discipline most don't want. They want pleasure.

[Carl-Richard]

2 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

Very interesting. Indeed. 

But why the bodywork? I don't understand that.  In fact Truth reveals that the body is an illusion.  So how does that fit in for you? Thank you for sharing as well.  Just followed you.  

Why mindwork? Truth reveals that the mind is an illusion. But of course you will object to this because you usually don't distinguish between the personal and transpersonal.

[theleelajoker]

My take:

Living, action is the unwinding of energy. You're just more aware/ more open during mediation.

Meditation is training camp, real life is the playground. Goal is to bridge the gap between "meditation" and "living everyday life". 

Integration means you keep the openness and flow of energy all the time.

 

Edited July 14 by theleelajoker

[Inliytened1]

6 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Why mindwork? Truth reveals that the mind is an illusion. But of course you will object to this because you usually don't distinguish between the personal and transpersonal.

When it comes to spirituality it's about being transpersonal.